103 replies to this topic

[Bud Crue]

Kin3ticX, on 10 July 2017 - 04:20 AM, said:

was the last roundtable the one like a year ago?

January

[Kin3ticX]

Bud Crue, on 10 July 2017 - 04:21 AM, said:

January

I guess I missed that one.

[Bud Crue]

Kin3ticX, on 10 July 2017 - 04:23 AM, said:

I guess I missed that one.

So did PGI it would seem. Maybe they just forgot about it.

[C E Dwyer]

El Bandito, on 10 July 2017 - 01:32 AM, said:

In which way? Comp server has very few players playing it, and it siphons mostly very good players. So pugs should benefit from having them gone from CW.

Nobody benefits from a small population.

[Kin3ticX]

Cathy, on 10 July 2017 - 04:28 AM, said:

Nobody benefits from a small population.

El Bandito is right

Its my impression that comp queue players by and large dislike Faction Play but it is still another bucket nonetheless.

[El Bandito]

Cathy, on 10 July 2017 - 04:28 AM, said:

Nobody benefits from a small population.

I disagree. For the average CW player, it is far worse to be smashed by 228, than not facing them at all.

[Admiral-Dan]

Sunstruck, on 10 July 2017 - 12:43 AM, said:

There is only 1, que for faction warfare, yet its STILL takes, 15+ mins to get a game, where you wait another 15 mins for a G H O S T D R O P ? ! ? !

When did you drop?

In the last 6 Months I had hundreds of FW Matches and only 2 Ghost Drops.

I would say in the EU Prime Time the possibility of a Ghost Drop is below 1%. While QP Events waiting times increases but Ghost Drops are still very rare.

[Brain Cancer]

The game simply is most popular as "push button, go shoot robots". CW's only mode for this is a 48v48 monster game that is automatically the equivalent of an unfiltered group mode, the worst possible scenario for newer players.

There needs to be refinement to the queue system.

-If- a 12-man queue is full and 15 minutes has elapsed without a similar 12-man queue filling on the other side, the full 12-man can elect to wait (and ghost drop at the end of normal time if need be), or raid. Raids split into 4-man groups by lance number and force any partially full group on the enemy side to split into 4-man groups (OR fraction therein) to do so as well, creating up to three different smaller instances with QP maps based on what the larger map would have been. For example, if it was a hot map, you might end up with 3 raids in Caustic, Canyon, and River City. Each raid will have 40% the influence of a 12-man assault, meaning they will flip a planet faster if allowed to raid. A partially full queue will mean one raid at least will drop against a partially missing or "ghost" raid, but this way everyone at least gets to play SOMETHING and not sit on their butts because one queue or the other couldn't fill.

A game that chews up huge amounts of time to no purpose is failing to actually be a game. Stop it.

[LordNothing]

i kind of like games where you have a small shepherd group, not a large group but not 100% skittles either. this is good when you run into a 12 man, you might not win but you will make it out with a semi-decent payday. and its really good when both teams have a similar sized group. this is why i think a soft split as i discribed in my previous post is the way to go.

those big groups have thinned out a lot and games are better for it. i guess you can only milk it so long before you grow board and head off elsewhere. this is as bad for fp as seal clubbing. i kind of think forcing them into more challenging battles might make some of them come back.

Edited by LordNothing, 10 July 2017 - 05:01 AM.

[Alan Hicks]

MWO quantity of people playing it needs to be boosted considerably.

Probably that may not happen and the low player population around is all we have for now. I hope I'm wrong on that...

I'm guessing PGI can't think of really improving Faction Play without more people, new and old, really playing it. That seemed to be one of the main reasons they merged factions, to diminish long waiting times, sacrificing game content, depth and options.

Events could give a slight boost if you choose to play a FP match instead of a normal short QP one. Because with the long challenges we have gotten lately is normal for people to pick QP over FP if possible.

For now you have the two unresolved issues of common unbalanced matches and long waiting times. That just takes away any chance of newbies or casual gamers liking and sticking to FP

[Greyhart]

The problem with CW is that it is for maxed (fully skilled) out mechs.

Most people I think play to master a mech and then move on to the next one, or to earn c-bills to purchase the next mech. That means QP.

Once you've kitted out a mech there is little reason to continue to play it. Let alone play 4 of them in one match.

So you need a hook that is personal to get people to play.

[Archer Magnus]

A free single player part of the game would attract new players, if that led them to picking a side, then building (buying) a drop deck then you might have a larger player base.

But, there is the new turn-based game, and MW5 will come out, so that is the real deal.

Like Titanfall, MWO could have missions that you achieve when playing in Quickplay. That would give a deeper gameplay to MWO.

[Bud Crue]

Greyhart, on 10 July 2017 - 05:51 AM, said:

The problem with CW is that it is for maxed (fully skilled) out mechs.

Most people I think play to master a mech and then move on to the next one, or to earn c-bills to purchase the next mech. That means QP.

Once you've kitted out a mech there is little reason to continue to play it. Let alone play 4 of them in one match.

So you need a hook that is personal to get people to play.

Well, one "hook" used to be faction and unit pride. Between the dilution of units with the unit tax and then the essential elimination of factions that "hook" is gone. Why bother trying to dominate the IS map if there is no pretend glory for you and yours?

Another more concrete hook used to be the allure of the faction tour to allow you to farm the rewards as you progressed up each faction. That was largely taken away when they made mercs their own pathway and added the loyalty breaking punishment. Now to make a tour worth while, ya need to stay in one spot for a long time, or do the quick tour for the single bay and then likely never bother doing it again.

Then there was the hook of playing on maps and a mode not available in QP. Now with QP maps and modes in CW, that hook is diluted all to hell.

Which leaves us with the last hook. The minuscule unit MC for taking a planet. Yeah. That'll reel in the fishes.

Edited by Bud Crue, 10 July 2017 - 06:04 AM.

[SOL Ranger]

Khobai, on 10 July 2017 - 12:53 AM, said:

I still think they need to integrate quickplay into faction warfare. Make every single match played count towards faction warfare.

When you go to play youd just have three options: scoutmode (4v4 same as it is now), quickplay (8v8 one life), and invasion mode (12v12 same as it is now)

And just have seperate queues for groups and pugs. So youd have a total of 5 buckets (1 for scoutmode, 2 for quickplay for pugs and groups, and 2 for invasion mode for pugs and groups)

That would fix a lot of the queue problems in faction warfare, because even if no one plays invasion mode you could still get faction points and help capture planets just from doing quickplay.

Also with the civil war update they could restructure faction warfare to allow mixed IS/clan teams which would allow more diversified buckets. Clan players would simply choose which side of the civil war they want to fight on when participating in civil war fights, and changing sides would come with the same penalties as breaking a contract.

I will fight against implementing 8v8 QP to the point I quit this game honestly, QP is what I like to play casually and I play this game for fun. Changing it to more and more resemble some tryhard mentality minmax arena where increasingly only the more extreme meta builds are viable and become near mandatory, is unwarranted. Furthermore the idea that you increase random disconnect/quitter/yolo/kill value to become immensely more devastating and cause even more clear landslide games based only on the first kills is in no way a solution for anything desirable for casual gameplay that QP is all about.

I have no idea why you CW guys are so adamant to destroy the currently only game type that actually works and notably the majority of the players like very much as it exists. This 8v8 suggestion keeps coming up every other week by a vocal minority as if it was ever a reasonable thing to go back to.

Focus on the broken game modes, QP needs ZERO changes to fix CW even if some changes that make results from QP more meaningful could be interesting, it still doesn't need any changes to fix CW. You have ranked and CW to play around with and adjust in any way you want to make it all appealing, merge them for some 8v8 CW ladder system or whatever, I don't care, just don't touch QP especially with 8v8.

Do note I'm not opposed to having QP merged to matter more and discussion of other interesting changes that could make it more fun, but then you by default couple in other changes as if they made any sense at all like 8v8, hell no.

PGI will see their player numbers drop even more if they do what you suggest, people will quit in droves and after having played rock paper scissors 4v4 QP on the PTS holy hell would I quit if anything similar to that became the staple game mode, and 8v8 is getting pretty darn close to it.

Let me reiterate, no, hell no to 8v8 QP

Edited by SOL Ranger, 10 July 2017 - 08:00 AM.

[Willard Phule]

MustrumRidcully, on 10 July 2017 - 01:24 AM, said:

WIth Civil War ,it would even be kinda justified to have mixed IS/Clan teams. (Well, maybe not fiction-historically accurate, but at least "believable" that in Civil War, the lines aren't as clear-cut anymore). As an added feature to motivate the whole Faction Warfare thing:

• Players select a Faction they work for (be it as Mercenary, Freelancer, or Loyalist) (with the usual 1 week before you can change loyalit)
• Players select a planet they are fighting for. (You can change this once a week, too) (from a small list of available planets.)
• The results of the matches a player has counts against the success of his faction on the chosen planet.

If a faction "wins" a planet, the player of the faction that fought for that planet get a one-time bonus (C-Bills, GXP, and maybe some consumables) .The bonus is higher the smaller the group of winning players is compared to their competitors. The selections of the player doesn't matter for the sake of the match-maker, however. (So theoretically two Steiner Loyalists could play on opposing teams.) Not realistic, but simplifies things.

Which brings up another Lore point.....at this point, by the time of the Civil War, why isn't there a "Clan Wolf in Exile" available for the IS?

[Khobai]

Quote

I will fight against implementing 8v8 QP to the point I quit this game honestly, QP is what I like to play casually and I play this game for fun. Changing it to more and more resemble some tryhard mentality minmax arena where increasingly only the more extreme meta builds are viable and become near mandatory, is unwarranted.

Except quickplay wouldnt really change? Other than the fact youd get faction points for it? And itd be 8v8 instead of 12v12.

It wouldnt become a tryhard minmax arena because thats what 8v8 comp mode is for.

Quote

PGI will see their player numbers drop even more if they do what you suggest

doubtful since it makes the free faction rewards far more accessible to everyone. there is literally no downside to what I suggested. and every upside.

Quote

Let me reiterate, no, hell no to 8v8 QP

Why? 8v8 is vastly superior to 12v12. You get a much better balance for brawlers because gunlines dont have enough concentrated firepower to stop brawlers as easily. Light and Mediums are stronger in 8v8 because they can skirmish and hit-and-run more easily with less concentrated firepower. 8v8 is far more tactical and individual skill doesnt get blotted out nearly as much. 8v8 is just better all around.

Edited by Khobai, 10 July 2017 - 09:11 AM.

[SOL Ranger]

Khobai, on 10 July 2017 - 09:03 AM, said:

Except quickplay wouldnt really change? Other than the fact youd get faction points for it? And itd be 8v8 instead of 12v12.

It wouldnt become a tryhard minmax arena because thats what 8v8 comp mode is for.



doubtful since it makes the free faction rewards far more accessible to everyone. there is literally no downside to what I suggested. and every upside.



Why? 8v8 is vastly superior to 12v12. You get a much better balance for brawlers because gunlines dont have enough concentrated firepower to stop brawlers as easily. Light and Mediums are stronger in 8v8 because they can skirmish and hit-and-run more easily with less concentrated firepower. 8v8 is far more tactical and individual skill doesnt get blotted out nearly as much. 8v8 is just better all around.

Every cheese tactic gets so much more potent in 8v8 as the value of every mech rises immensely.

Every disconnect, YOLO, quitter, teamkill etc. becomes incredibly more devastating and can easily cause a loss from the start. Every initial tactic that kills even a couple mechs is almost an assured a landslide victory due to the much vaster importance of having greater numbers in 8v8 is.

Furthermore the combat dynamic is changed to a one dimensional linear pathway making it even more boring and predictable and notably deathball prone, simply because the enemy no longer has an effective number of backup mechs by numbers to counter with once they lose some to an initial push, while the attacker still retains essentially the same effective firepower as in 12v12 deathballs due to 'Mech-LOS that they can put on target.

It is most certainly not better all-round, just more harsh and polarised relying on the extremes of mech performance and skill discrepancies with less possible counters or backup on field, pushing everyone to run the most meta effective mechs possible. 8v8 must never be implemented in QP because it changes the whole dynamic of fun and relaxed gameplay to a more serious tryhard or bust model.

Create an 8v8 CW ranked ladder system instead, there is no need to mix in QP into this.

Edited by SOL Ranger, 10 July 2017 - 10:16 AM.

[DGTLDaemon]

Khobai, on 10 July 2017 - 09:03 AM, said:

8v8 is far more tactical...

On the contrary, the fewer mechs are on the field, the more self-reliant and self-sufficient each mech must be. And that means - no specialized builds like long-range snipers or LRM boats because they can only operate in a narrow window and need the right circumstances to thrive, no slow mechs like the Dire Wolf because they cannot function without a large team supporting them, no unique builds like those NARCing Ravens because who needs NARCs when there are no lurms... Look at scouting as an example. Everybody knows that in order to win a scouting match, you need to bring 4 brawlers - either SRM-based or energy-based. Back when I played CW, it was Splat Crows against Splat Griffins all the time, and the team that chose to bring something else usually lost. You want Quick Play to become like that?

[Khobai]

Quote

On the contrary, the fewer mechs are on the field, the more self-reliant and self-sufficient each mech must be. And that means - no specialized builds like long-range snipers or LRM boats

you can definitely still have lrm boats in 8v8 and they work better because youre more likely to have teammates that are brawling and holding locks for you

12v12 used to be 8v8 back in the day and i played an lrm boat all the time.

[Ghogiel]

El Bandito, on 10 July 2017 - 01:32 AM, said:

In which way? Comp server has very few players playing it, and it siphons mostly very good players. So pugs should benefit from having them gone from CW.

that's assuming any of the teams in the comp queue even played much CW to matter. Which is about 2 teams if I am being generous.