60 replies to this topic

[KekistanWillRiseAgain]

So there has been a steady stream of direct LRM Nerfs and indirect LRM Nerfs stacking up in the past few months. These include...

1. LRM 5 Spread increased
2. Lots of Missile Quirks removed from IS mechs
3. AMS Overload becoming so easy and prevalent to get
4. AMS being Buffed with longer Range & higher Damage (to be more useful against SRM/SSRM)
5. Even more 3 AMS Clan mechs & 2 AMS IS mechs
Edit:6. Radar Deprivation got a HUGE Buff since it is instantaneous instead of just cancelling out the Advanced Target Decay Module like it used to


LRMs need to be given a Velocity Buff just to counteract the AMS Buff that really applies more to LRM than SRM/SSRM. I have seen more AMS in the past week then in the previous 3 years combined. LRMs are already one of the weakest Weapon Systems in the game among the reasons are the counters against them, the counters keep getting Buffed to the point that the population is actually USING them for the first time. Counters that are being Buffed specifically stated against other Missile Systems but have even more effect upon LRMs, with the incoming MRMs & ATMs then LRMs need some kind of Buff to even stay as relevant as they currently are at the bottom of the pile.

Edited by KekistanWillRiseAgain, 11 July 2017 - 08:52 PM.

[ScreamingSkull]

Uh no...

[KekistanWillRiseAgain]

Wow... such articulated responses to the very real issues brought up. Velocity Buff to counter the AMS Buff that was explicitly stated to have been done against SRM/SSRM but in reality affect LRM much more acutely.

[Sjorpha]

Agree lrms need a buff they are very weak now.

[r4plez]

Well am playing my LRM boats from second line <500m from enemy and i see no problem in LRM velocity. The real issue for people is that they cant shoot and score from 900-1000m away - and frankly thats perfectly fine. Anyways most of ppl are already tired after LRM are OP nerf them/LRM are underperforming threads every second week. Sorry.

Edited by r4plez, 11 July 2017 - 12:29 PM.

[Savage Wolf]

I think it would be better to remove AMS from the game. There are plenty other counters for LRMs and yet for some reason we have missile shields in the game and yes, with the numbers we see currently they completely block a whole category of weapon systems. There are no anti laser system or anti ballistic system and in any case, a weapon should be balanced when there are no such systems in play, which they are.
So just remove AMS. It's impossible to balance anyway.

[Grus]

Some please post a "let the hate flow" gif..

[ScreamingSkull]

Lrm abusers upset people are using AMS... wowow

Bring some back up weapons and start playing more aggressively with your LRMs. If everyone and their mother wasn't abusing LRMs, maybe you wouldn't see so much AMS. LRMs need no buff.

[Athom83]

KekistanWillRiseAgain, on 11 July 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

1. LRM 5 Spread increased

It was overperforming in context to the other LRMs. This was done to bring it in line so it isn't always a nobrainer to take 4 LRM5s instead of a LRM20.

KekistanWillRiseAgain, on 11 July 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

2. Lots of Missile Quirks removed from IS mechs

This was because a lot of that could be made up by the skill tree. Also, a lot of IS mechs still have missile quirks.

KekistanWillRiseAgain, on 11 July 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

3. AMS Overload becoming so easy and prevalent to get

Before it had no use, as it directly gimped your mech for having it. And when you fill out the tree, those 1-2 nodes are really important and could be used for something else.

KekistanWillRiseAgain, on 11 July 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

4. AMS being Buffed with longer Range & higher Damage (to be more useful against SRM/SSRM)

Same as above. It was there before, but no one used it as it directly effected you negatively in comparison to other options.

KekistanWillRiseAgain, on 11 July 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

5. Even more 3 AMS Clan mechs & 2 AMS IS mechs

They were always there, barely anyone used them. With an update that boosted LRMs easily (target retention, faster lock on, -% missile spread, ect), people started seeing those 2-3 AMS mechs a little more desirable.

KekistanWillRiseAgain, on 11 July 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

LRMs need to be given a Velocity Buff just to counteract the AMS Buff that really applies more to LRM than SRM/SSRM. I have seen more AMS in the past week then in the previous 3 years combined. LRMs are already one of the weakest Weapon Systems in the game among the reasons are the counters against them, the counters keep getting Buffed to the point that the population is actually USING them for the first time.

LRMs are currently the weakest and the strongest weapon at the same time. What you are failing to realize/acknowledge is that LRMs already got buffed. Now, you can get velocity, range, spread, cooldown, heat gen, and ammo skills to boost your lurms. And they aren't locked to one version of them at a time like before.

[MechaBattler]

I would agree in one sense. LRMs fired within line of sight of the target should receive a buff.

But I have no interest in encouraging people to sit back and blindly firing of volley after volley. I take distinct pleasure in driving the proverbial knife into LRM boats that don't work for their damage. Especially when it's an assault.

[Savage Wolf]

MechaBattler, on 11 July 2017 - 12:53 PM, said:

I would agree in one sense. LRMs fired within line of sight of the target should receive a buff.

But I have no interest in encouraging people to sit back and blindly firing of volley after volley. I take distinct pleasure in driving the proverbial knife into LRM boats that don't work for their damage. Especially when it's an assault.

I agree. Also make them fire faster by not requiring locks. And since they are never useful beyond 500m might as well decrease range. I'll call them... Medium... Range... Missiles... If only we could have that in the game, but it's probably not lore or something.

[Tordin]

I like AMS, I like lurms. I try to like everything in this game. To see solutions and such.
For starters. Make LRM 20 have the same spread of LRM 10 and LRM 15 the same spread as LRM 5.
I thought that the surms had the fastest velocity, then slower as murms and slowest as lurms.

I dont bother checking which type of missile weapon have the highest velocity but....

Overall buff all missiles velocity, not just lurms. Cant have faster vel' than murms and surms or it dont seems consistent. Not sure about rockets and ATM though.

Edited by Tordin, 11 July 2017 - 01:10 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Eh. If people think it hurts LRMs the way AMS is now, they should see ATMs.

A missile system with the same velocity and rough missile health as LRMs...only fewer missiles per salvo.

You can literally destroy entire ATM12 flights with ease in a Kit Fox now. Multiple ones, in fact.

Velocity is the holy grail for LRM users (lol at "abusers"), because faster missiles are more accurate and spend less time being DOTd to death in any given AMS bubble. Both need more velocity, if only because it's patently stupid to have weapons that reach 1000+ meters (heck, ATMs START with 1100m) that take 7+ seconds just to GET there. For guided missiles, they're actually horrible outside of 500m simply because only terribads end up getting repeatedly nailed outside of that, given the plentiful countermeasures. Except Polar, cause it's about optimal for LRMs. Then I'd razz you for getting repeatedly drilled outside 700 or so, given there's fewer handy rocks to godmode-deflect missiles for the low,low cost of situational awareness, zero tons, zero nodes, and zero critspaces.

By a spread weapon that cannot be directed in any way and takes dozens of missiles launched to actually do more than dent armor. If any other weapon -averaged- a hit rate in the 30 percents, PGI would have a mob with pitchforks and torches ready.

Except LRMs. Because if you fear LRMs now, you are a terrible, horrible, lousy player.

[Athom83]

Tordin, on 11 July 2017 - 01:09 PM, said:

I dont bother checking which type of missile weapon have the highest velocity but....

SRMs, MRMs, and RLs are tied for the fastest. SSRMs are just below that. ATMs and LRMs share a similar speed, but technically ATMs are slower as they take the same time to travel the same distance as LRMs but on a shorter path.

[Birthright]

MWO doesnt need LRMs.

Removing the weapon system entirely would do more good than anything else.

Buffing the most cancerous weapon system in this game?
No thx.

[Yellonet]

Each LRM missile should do 5 damage and should always seek out the CT.
Also there should be no warning of incoming missiles.
It's stupid to think that LRM's should be some kind of support weapon system, no LRM's should take their rightful place as main weapon system and all other weapons should take the backseat.

I mean come on, who doesn't like getting rained on as a good surprise when you took a peek? It's like winning a lottery!!

[Alexander of Macedon]

LRMs are in a good spot right now. Non-universal radar derp and nerfed ECM alone outweigh every point you brought up.

That aside, I don't know if anyone actually takes AMS overload, it's one of the most frequently skipped nodes (to the point that it was one of the ones named in protests over the old skill tree layout), and a surprisingly few number of people take AMS even after the buffs.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

Now, you can get velocity, range, spread, cooldown, heat gen, and ammo skills to boost your lurms. And they aren't locked to one version of them at a time like before.

Right. So we can basically all burn our nodes to get LRMs up to...slightly less trash, meaning most missile boats can hit the same sub-par level the best missile boats did. Well, not quite, but ammo buffs are the only unique boost. It's a plus.

This doesn't change that LRMs were already medicore at best even -when- quirked and in optimal circumstances. It just meant we could raise everything to mediocre. Sort of. Maybe.

Ten percent velocity buff on an LRM is...16 velocity.

Please, tell me another weapon that would function notably better with sixteen more velocity. Perhaps the slowest ballistic weapon in the game, the AC/20? Oh wait, that'd be a two percent buff on that. Two. For a weapon with more than 400% the base velocity of LRMs, that's expected to travel accurately out to a mere 270m. 360m, if it's a Clan AC/20. Woo.

Perhaps SRMs. They'd surely get a real boost out of sixteen more velocity, oh wait they already go 400.. And MRMs are even faster.. Heck, the same node buffs give twice as much velocity to an SRM as they do an LRM, which is supposedly going four times the distance.

[Athom83]

Brain Cancer, on 11 July 2017 - 01:47 PM, said:

This doesn't change that LRMs were already medicore at best even -when- quirked and in optimal circumstances. It just meant we could raise everything to mediocre. Sort of. Maybe.

Ten percent velocity buff on an LRM is...16 velocity.

Actually, incorrect. The listed speed is the horizontal velocity, not the speed of the missiles. That takes into account the whole arc. The LRM's actual speed is much higher, it just is not traveling directly at the target. Its "true" speed is somewhat more akin to SSRMs.

[Brain Cancer]

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Removing the weapon system entirely would do more good than anything else.

Because if you can't point and click to hit, it ain't worth spit, right?

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Each LRM missile should do 5 damage and should always seek out the CT.
Also there should be no warning of incoming missiles.
It's stupid to think that LRM's should be some kind of support weapon system, no LRM's should take their rightful place as main weapon system and all other weapons should take the backseat.

Nah, that was Streaks and it sucked. Although if you took out the "INCOMING MISSILES", you'd probably indirectly increase hit rate as there'd be less time to react.

And what kind of pants-on-head statement is it that LRMs are a "support weapon"? A weapon that doesn't hit and kill as effectively as other weapons is just a "bad weapon", and needs help. Even if LRMs were actually as accurate as most weapons are- let's say even a 50% hit rate, considering right now part of every decent LRM salvo is an auto-miss - they'd still be scattering hits across the target and are incapable of magically focusing every point on one location like "real weapons" in MWO do. It'd be nice even being an accurate spread weapon, because inaccurate + spread is basically the two biggest curses an MWO weapon system can get, and the LRM gets both.

Quote

It's like winning a lottery!!

You did, and the prize was a prefrontal lobotomy?