83 replies to this topic

[SOL Ranger]

The grey haze is what always bothered me the most, even on the old map it put a severe strain on the eyes. Instead of the haze they could add rain and lightning for weather effects.

They could split up the huge map into several smaller ones and randomly pick one of them every time Forest Colony is selected, also bring back the old geometry with the cave, I miss the cave fights.

[JadePanther]

hmm methinks u havent been playing alot of maps because how many of them end up taking place in the same small area of the map.. I can prolly sit here and list them but alot of them really have confilct in the same <1 km area.. And its pretty boring and old.. Russ said they want ideas for maps.. Heres one, try not using the stain from your coffee mug on your desk as a template.. And if your gonna use domination dont just have it in the same damn spot in the center of the map... move it around, and by that i mean dynamic location not rotated once a year in a patch..

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Wildstreak, on 13 July 2017 - 07:44 AM, said:

No they actually don't, only Domination (fixed point) and Escort (moving point) do.

Conquest generally forces you to control a central point because it is the best way to keep cap control, especially if theta is central and not like Polar.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 13 July 2017 - 08:54 AM.

[The_Dane]

The low light\night time conditions are the WORST. Night and heat vision only do so much.
And the center of the map is way cluttered. I like the inlet (with the wrecked freighter). I would like to see a re-work of the center\pillar area. it doesn't have to be Kansas, but what is there just keeps channeling teams into the same old positions, and using the same old tactics. It feels like you're playing the same match over and over again.

[DivineTomatoes]

The old map was great, the new one. Well.

It's bloody massive but only a fraction of it ever gets used. That one little bit in the center where everyone slugs it out. I remember times on the old map where we might go tunnel or maybe to the ship. Not any more. Now it's to the center.

Bad visibility, I find I'm straining my eyes on it, all the clutter plus the fog is literally painful to watch. Thermal vision would be useful if the range on it wasn't pathetic.

Day night cycle is also terrible but I hate that on other maps too, looking at you River City.

Then there's the wonky tree hitbox's, oh that pine tree just absorbed my AC/20 shot and is still standing.

TBH it's by far my most hated map, by far.

[Nine-Ball]

Forest Colony is a great map, both old and new.

They slightly changed the map around since last I played; the narrow mountain pass is alot bigger for a few lances to push through.

All they need to do is merely change where lances are dropped off on the map and you'll see more of it used.

[Gwahlur]

A lot of the problems this game has with the meta and the flow of the maps are due to there being an alarming amount of one trick geezers that just seem incapable of original thought playing it.

It's kind of pissing me off, 'cause it's really diminishing my playing experience

Edited by Gwahlur, 13 July 2017 - 12:54 PM.

[Khobai]

Forest colony is frustrating because they have that stupid mountain range in the middle of the map that makes half the map unplayable and filters both teams into the same two squares every game.

To fix the map they need to remove that mountain range in the middle and open the map up more so fighting can take place in different areas.

Quote

They slightly changed the map around since last I played; the narrow mountain pass is alot bigger for a few lances to push through.

They need to stop putting things like this on maps. Narrow passes and chokepoints simply dont make for good map flow because they constrict movement options. Its one of the reasons forest colony is such a stagnant map because your movement options are severely limited by the placement of mountains. And then you have the water on the other side which is a deathtrap in a long range meta.

Whereas maps like canyon network or mining collective are great examples of maps that have terrain that obstructs movement but doesnt limit your movement options so severely that both teams basically have to go to the same two squares every game. Those maps give you options while forest colony does not.

Edited by Khobai, 13 July 2017 - 01:03 PM.

[Ghogiel]

waterfowl, on 12 July 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

. Was this map not tested? Were there no design documents or mock fights while it was grey box? Did they even test it while it was grey box? I'm going to go with no on that.

Even if they did test it who is to say they know what to find out. As so much stuff ONLY occurs in live, PGI doesn't iterate properly so at the end of the day it is nearly a crap shoot if a map ends up bad or good. Trust me, iteration is the only thing to be doing to get maps in a mech game working well enough to not be anoying.

[Coolant]

no visibility

[Khobai]

Quote

no visibility

use your vision modes? because ive never had this problem specifically on forest colony. I find the snow on frozen city to be more annoying.

although nighttime gets annoying on some maps because night vision does nothing lol

Quote

The low light\night time conditions are the WORST. Night and heat vision only do so much.

its why we need spotlights

so you can see the enemy spotlights and shoot at them

Edited by Khobai, 13 July 2017 - 02:36 PM.

[Pjwned]

JadePanther, on 13 July 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

hmm methinks u havent been playing alot of maps because how many of them end up taking place in the same small area of the map.. I can prolly sit here and list them but alot of them really have confilct in the same <1 km area.. And its pretty boring and old.. Russ said they want ideas for maps.. Heres one, try not using the stain from your coffee mug on your desk as a template..

You're right but Forest Colony is currently the worst map by far for not utilizing huge parts of the map.

Quote

And if your gonna use domination dont just have it in the same damn spot in the center of the map... move it around, and by that i mean dynamic location not rotated once a year in a patch..

Absolutely agreed, Domination is a disgrace that just makes already boring maps even more boring.

At least in Skirmish you have a chance of some players making crazy maneuvers, but in Domination you're punished for doing that because if you don't have enough presence in the circle at all times then you just lose.

[Khobai]

Quote

Absolutely agreed, Domination is a disgrace that just makes already boring maps even more boring.

Yeah I think id prefer each map have a gamemode designed specifically for that map

Rather than trying to make every gamemode awkwardly work on every map

That way the maps can be designed around the gamemodes.

Edited by Khobai, 13 July 2017 - 02:39 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Pjwned, on 13 July 2017 - 02:32 PM, said:

Absolutely agreed, Domination is a disgrace that just makes already boring maps even more boring.

Not that it is saying much, but Domination is still better than Skirmish (because it prevents camping), Escort, and Incursion.

[Pjwned]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 July 2017 - 02:43 PM, said:

Not that it is saying much, but Domination is still better than Skirmish (because it prevents camping), Escort, and Incursion.

Are you kidding? There's even more camping in Domination because you can't afford to move far away from the circle at all unless you want your teammates to be overrun, and thus lose, or just lose outright by giving up the circle; this is only reinforced by the fact that both sides have a decent camping spot within the circle on every map.

I don't like Skirmish much either but at least there's potential to make some unusual maneuvers and actually use the map outside of a ~300-500m radius.

[Pjwned]

Khobai, on 13 July 2017 - 02:38 PM, said:

Yeah I think id prefer each map have a gamemode designed specifically for that map

Rather than trying to make every gamemode awkwardly work on every map

That way the maps can be designed around the gamemodes.

I'm not really confident that would make things any better because PGI would just come up with something even worse.

The way it is now most of the maps and map & mode combinations just need some tweaks, e.g not spawning 1 lance out in the middle of nowhere with no cover nearby while the enemy snipes the lance from cover on Tourmaline in Assault, and then after fixing **** like that (as well as addressing modes that are just bad like Domination and Incursion) it would be fine.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Pjwned, on 13 July 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

Are you kidding? There's even more camping in Domination because you can't afford to move far away from the circle at all unless you want your teammates to be overrun

Except because this forces teams to be in close proximity to each other it encourages pushes/brawling because it is that much easier to win since you closing the distance is partially done for you. I'm not sure of the win condition anymore, but it should be like incursion in that whoever has the least time on the clock at the end of a game in case of a stalemate should win.

That said there are a couple of campy maps, but that would be the case regardless of domination and would in fact be worse because it generally puts you in a closer proximity than you would want to be otherwise.

Pjwned, on 13 July 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

this is only reinforced by the fact that both sides have a decent camping spot within the circle on every map.

Except those really aren't, there is a difference between holding a power position, and camping a power position, and the difference is approach-ability and activity.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 13 July 2017 - 03:05 PM.

[Suko]

My opinion on all of PGI's maps is that they are too happy with corridors and paths. They tend to have very large obstacles that funnel players through certain choke points. This is great if all you care about is the two teams slamming head-first into each other, but after months (or years) of playing the same maps, this gets incredibly stale.

One of my biggest gripes is the mountains on Forest colony. If you get to the (infamous) arch and notice there's a lot of baddies there, what are your options?
A ) Slug it out
B ) Take the water (and probably die)
C ) Go around via the path cut out in the mountain

My preference is Option C, but the problem is that by the time you take a typical mech there and get into a flanking position on the enemy, 2 (literal) minutes has passed and without the full team's strength at the arch, your team is probably hurting or even down by 1 or 2 mechs. I have wanted to flank SO many times, but don't because I know that if I go wandering off to flank, I'll have caused my team to be crippled and likely start the snowball effect of mechs getting torn to pieces.

It's not just Forest Colony; PGI is terrible about giving us quick "shortcuts" to flank enemies and be strategic. Let's look at Canyon Network. I actually like this map, but nothing sux more than getting into the canyon and having to walk for a minute or more just to find the nearest ramp to get back up, or cut across to the adjacent canyon. What PGI could (and should) do is make more paths and openings in the canyons to make them more interconnected. They don't have to be wide, maybe 1 or 2 mech width at most. These aren't meant to be the main thoroughfares and would turn a team into a turkeyshoot if they all tried filing thru 1 by 1. However, in the heat of battle, these alleys allow you many more strategies instead of "stand and fight". Imagine you find the enemy team is pushing you and you're outgunned, there's always and alley to duck into temporarily a couple steps back. Unfortunately, as the maps are designed now, you rarely have any viable option except back up and shoot until they drop you, because the nearest escape path is a minute's walk in any direction.

You see this same issue on Terra Therma, too. If your team is sitting at the mouth of the volcano trading shots with the other team, the only alternate strategy is to flank, which will take most mechs 2+ minutes to do. If PGI would add some goat paths along the rim, this could really add to the options a player has on handling the situation here. Instead, it always comes down to peak and shoot because no one came to play MechWalker.

This lack of path options applies to most of the maps. However, I have to give credit to Mining Colony in doing something right. With the exception of some of the large plateaus in the center and sides, most of the obstacles on this map are individual buildings and structures that most mechs can dart in-between and use as movement and escape vectors.

And for how much people gripe about River City, I have to say that having the option to flank in-between the buildings in the city makes it very diverse. Unfortunately, the river (and lack of cover) bisecting the maps really limits the ability to utilize this cover and pathing unless one team has already occupied the same side of the city as the other. If they made a version of this map, but filled in the river, then you could see some really interesting flanking and harassing strategies played out.

HPG's inner area is also well done, but that outter wall is pure poop. They really need to add a few gates in-between the mile-long walls to allow passage in-between. Imagine adding timed gates (similar to airlocks) that would only open every 10 seconds and could (at most) fit 2 mechs at a time. This allows for quicker access from inner to outer rings, but you also can't just bum rush 12 mechs through a narrow channel.

Anyways, in short: PGI needs to allow player's more freedom of movement and path choices. The current maps have a "funnel them towards each other" attitude that gets VERY boring after hundreds of matches. Making small, interconnected paths would allow much more varied strategies and would likely result in more interesting and less predictable games.

Edited by Suko, 13 July 2017 - 03:39 PM.

[Deathlike]

I've said this many times about PGI designing the maps... sure it might look good, but does it play well? The answer is usually no.

There's one important thing to remember is that that mountain passage around G8-G9 is a trap kill zone. It resembles the kind of poor design you'd see on a CW/FP map... where people funnel in to their deaths.

That and the difficulty to getting any fights elsewhere due to poor map design... well, that's why they play out the way they do. It's predictably bad, and predictably boring. You don't need comp matches to highlight how poorly the damned thing is designed... it's because the naturally poor design forces people to repeat the same things all the time (if the other options were superior, you'd see it more often, but there aren't, and that's what we get).

[Pjwned]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 July 2017 - 03:03 PM, said:

Except because this forces teams to be in close proximity to each other it encourages pushes/brawling because it is that much easier to win since you closing the distance is partially done for you. I'm not sure of the win condition anymore, but it should be like incursion in that whoever has the least time on the clock at the end of a game in case of a stalemate should win.

That said there are a couple of campy maps, but that would be the case regardless of domination and would in fact be worse because it generally puts you in a closer proximity than you would want to be otherwise.


Except those really aren't, there is a difference between holding a power position, and camping a power position, and the difference is approach-ability and activity.

Where are the better camping spots outside of the circle that aren't just as vulnerable to pushing and/or flanking then? Because I can't think of many.