60 replies to this topic

[Kaptain]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 July 2017 - 08:59 PM, said:

Chris if i may be so Bold as to Ask,

both the Heavy Gauss and LBX20 are still 11 Crits,
is PGI stead fast in their position not to deviate from TT Slot requirements(which is ok)
or are you just waiting on making a Final Decision with them as to see how they work in a Live environment,
in this case making a final decision when you have more data on how they are preforming?

Once Again thanks for Responding to us,

X2

Also does PGI have any future plans to implement ammo switching or crit splitting?

Edited by Kaptain, 14 July 2017 - 11:36 PM.

[Sucy Manbavaran]

Viktor Drake, on 14 July 2017 - 11:00 PM, said:

I have to say I share the concerns about the ATM's weakness against ASM, I do hope this was addressed. Considering the limitation on these weapons they should do damage at least proportionally to LRMs, i.e. if 15 of 20 LRMs would make it through a single AMS then 9 of 12 ATMs should make it through.

On the other hand for the most part I am greatly pleased about the direction things are headed with IS mechs. It seems most of the new IS weapons received a fair amount of improvement since the last public test and I am super excited to start retrofiting my 70+ IS mechs to take advantage of this. However, I don't really understand why you continue to take wacks at Clan weapons and equipment.

To be honest I am becoming rather alarmed at the continued nerfing of Clan staples like the CER ML, CER SL and MPL, especially in light of the significant improvements IS mechs are going to be seeing with the new tech. I am honestly at the point where I am starting to have little desire to actually drop into a match with a Clan mech and the added heat burden most of my Clan builds are going to experience due to these nerfs are likely to going to push me over the edge. I can honestly say I am probably going to have at least a dozen Clan builds I use, which ride a razor edge on heat as it, get totally broken by the changes and I am not talking about mechs like the Marauder IIC either. I am talking about mechs like the Ice Ferret, Kit Fox, Executioner, Myst Lynx, etc, mechs that most considered sub-par as is. Got to say I am very upset about this.

Don't worry, next patch you'll get some other Clan Nerf that's what we got when,i guess 120% of PGI Staff are IS loyalist from decade and hates clans except for moneymaking :/

MicroBasics/Pulse will get nerf cause you can kill something with them >< Predictions : some Heat++ Duration++ and some Ghostheat

Edited by Sucy Manbavaran, 15 July 2017 - 01:39 AM.

[Gryphorim]

2 Alternative ideas for ATMs

1: ATMs have massive spread as they launch, literally in an arc of like 60 degrees wide. Couple this with ripple fire. They stay really widely spaced until they reach 270m, where there's a small flare in engine brightness (booster decouple, second stage of propellant, whatever, it's a visual cue) then the missiles accelerate and spread pattern tightens up. This pattern is repeated for the third phase.

Functionally, at short range, better damage numbers than SRM, perhaps, but very spread out. At long range, damage is worse than LRM, but with tighter spread and higher speed missiles.

Meaning they can be used at point-blank as a desperation weapon, but rather inefficient at dealing damage to a specific location, and at long range they can be used for some direct damage, but cannot sustain damage of LRMs, as they lack ammo/ton for saturation fire.

2: ATMs take a snapshot of target distance at launch, and this determines the missile type fired. If target at short range, HE are used, if in medium range, standard, and at long range, ER. There'd need to be a visual distinction for each, allowing the target some small chance to maneuver outside that missile type's effective range, curtailing any damage.


Happy to hear about HPPCs, that sounds awesome

Edited by Gryphorim, 15 July 2017 - 02:23 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

So ATMs still have that stupid minimum range.

Lol.

[Zergling]

Huzzah! PGI did exactly as I recommended for improving the Heavy PPC; increase damage to 15, increase cooldown from 4.0 to 4.5 to prevent DPS/ton from being too high.


EDIT: I'm kinda annoyed that PGI managed to make ER Micro and Micro Pulse Lasers even worse than they already were though, by lowering their damage, which makes them worse in damage/heat ratio.

Here's the ER Micro vs ER Small:
ER Micro Laser = 2.4 damage, 0.80 DPS, 3.20 DPS/ton, 1.41 damage/heat
ER Small Laser = 5.0 damage, 1.16 DPS, 2.33 DPS/ton, 1.43 damage/heat

The ER Micro Laser should have better damage/heat than the heavier Clan ER Small Laser, else an ER Small build will have better alpha damage and better sustained DPS.


Micro Pulse vs Small Pulse:
Micro Pulse = 2.7 damage, 1.29 DPS, 2.57 DPS/ton, 1.59 damage/heat
Small Pulse = 4.0 damage, 1.60 DPS, 1.60 DPS/ton, 1.67 damage/heat

Same as above; the Micro Pulse should have better damage/heat ratio than the Clan Small Pulse Laser.

Edited by Zergling, 15 July 2017 - 03:55 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 July 2017 - 09:53 PM, said:

That's all fine but the Gauss PPC ghost heat thing is a disaster.

Obviously you do not play light mechs. Getting crippled or even one-shot by 1 lucky alpha is sooooooo fun

[Reno Blade]

Shifty McSwift, on 14 July 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

Please restore this effect to ER lasers, at the moment for clan the ER vs pulse distinction when it comes to range is really minimal or negligible. The effect of longer burn off range would do a lot to distinguish these weapon types, right now only ERLL has extra falloff range, why not ERML and ERSL?

They restored the 2x Optimim = Maxrange for cER Lasers already with that patch:

Quote

Clan ER Small Laser
• Heat increased to 3.5 (from 3).
• Cooldown duration increased to 3.2 (from 2.7).
• Max Range increased to 400 (from 360).

Clan ER Medium Laser
• Heat increased to 6.3 (from 6).
• Cooldown duration increased to 3.75 (from 3.5).
• Optimal Range decreased to 400 (from 405).
• Max Range increased to 800 (from 688).

Clan ER Laser Design Notes: With the recent PTS we tested IS ER Lasers at double the Range to see how the dynamic held up for the their intended roles. We were satisfied with the results, so we wish to shift a similar design mentality over to the Clan side, providing them with increased Max Ranges to bring them in better parity with the new IS ER Lasers, and additionally, to further tune their overall performance against the rest of the lineup.

Edited by Reno Blade, 15 July 2017 - 05:52 AM.

[J0anna]

The HPPC change was needed. Adding Ghost heat to IS UACs wasn't. They were good and had a purpose without it, now - regular ACs with their FLD are just better. Heavy laser changes should help them, they might be useful on some hard point starved mechs - shadow cat and summoner look promising.

ATM's still have stream fire and low missile health, AMS will annihilate them - still not worth the added weight.

MRM's speed got boosted, will see if it's enough to make them effective at range - but I liked them anyway so a little boost helps after their last nerf. Oh my goodness, look at their new missile spreads...wow and lower heat on the 30's and 40's. I anticipate buying a lot of these....PPC speed boost helps, and I'm really not bothered by the Gauss/PPC tie, using them on different weapon groups was kind of normal for me anyway. Thanks for the 2xrange on ER lasers (it was confusing remembering which ones were 2x and which weren't) , but the even longer cooldown and higher heat on the clan erml???...oh well, there just isn't a replacement for many mechs, the 4xerml mist lynx was too powerful anyway....

Overall, I suspect the IS (since they kept their structure/armor quirks) will have a great many greatly improved mechs. I have 13 new models picked out for my stable.

Lets see, questions,

1) Light Gauss, still limited to charging only 2 (though lower cooldown is nice)?
2) Any chance we could get one shot Inferno missiles (for both sides) in the future?
3) Does the skill improved gyro work on the heavy gauss shake?

[Tordin]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 July 2017 - 08:59 PM, said:

Chris if i may be so Bold as to Ask,

both the Heavy Gauss and LBX20 are still 11 Crits,
is PGI stead fast in their position not to deviate from TT Slot requirements(which is ok)
or are you just waiting on making a Final Decision with them as to see how they work in a Live environment,
in this case making a final decision when you have more data on how they are preforming?

Once Again thanks for Responding to us,

This. Me neither want the game to change to much from TT/ lore but making lbx 20 a 10 slot weapon would make it more useful overall and in combination with the LFE.

Real happy about the Heavy PPC changes, maybe take such a change into consideration for the Clans only one ERPPC too? Making it splash at the longest ranges?


ATM's:

120-270: 3 damage per missile
320-500: 2 damage per missile
550-1100: 1 damage per missile

Sooo, how about th meters in between the range brackets? Do I understand this correctly but does the ATM do 3 dmg from 270 m to 319 m and 2 dmg from 500 m to 549 m? Kinda same question for any weapon regarding ranges.

And thanks for explaining and responding Chris, keep it up

Edited by Tordin, 15 July 2017 - 09:19 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Tordin, on 15 July 2017 - 09:18 AM, said:

ATM's:

120-270: 3 damage per missile
320-500: 2 damage per missile
550-1100: 1 damage per missile

Sooo, how about th meters in between the range brackets? Do I understand this correctly but does the ATM do 3 dmg from 270 m to 319 m and 2 dmg from 500 m to 549 m? Kinda same question for any weapon regarding ranges.

And thanks for explaining and responding Chris, keep it up

... Chris already answered that. It's a gradual change (linear extrapolation or "lerp") during the transitions - exactly the same as the normal damage falloff works for things like lasers from Optimal to Max range.

So, ATM's do 3 damage at 270m, and 2 damage at 320m. Midway between those two points, at 295m, ATM's would do 2.5 damage. Get it?

Reno Blade, on 15 July 2017 - 05:50 AM, said:

They restored the 2x Optimim = Maxrange for cER Lasers already with that patch:

Oh! I missed this, so glad to hear it.

I'll take a tiny heat increase on my cERML's for them having their full max range back. I've got MPL's for close range fighting, after all.

[Twilight Fenrir]

I feel like this should have been posted in Announcements, or tacked on to the patch notes, or something... but, otherwise, good news all 'round, thank you for clarifying n.n

[Jay Leon Hart]

Chris Lowrey, on 14 July 2017 - 08:31 PM, said:

Snub Nose PPC:

0-270: 10 Damage
450: 5 Damage

The weapon follows a linear damage falloff from Optimal to max range.

While I understand that swapping the 90m minimum range for 90m less max range, being 1 ton lighter *and* 1 crit smaller was a little too good, what are the odds of moving the optimal from 270 up to 360?

Chris Lowrey, on 14 July 2017 - 08:31 PM, said:

Bonus:

Have received a few people asking, but yes, the Heavy PPC will do a solid 15 damage to a single location upon release while in Optimal Range.

Edited by Jay Leon Hart, 15 July 2017 - 02:45 PM.

[Tordin]

Wintersdark, on 15 July 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

... Chris already answered that. It's a gradual change (linear extrapolation or "lerp") during the transitions - exactly the same as the normal damage falloff works for things like lasers from Optimal to Max range.

So, ATM's do 3 damage at 270m, and 2 damage at 320m. Midway between those two points, at 295m, ATM's would do 2.5 damage. Get it?

Ah, I see. Yes I get it.

[Clay Pigeon]

Turkina when?

[Peter Overheater]

My opinion in the horrible Gauss/PPC ghost heat (or energy draw via back -door?) quoted from a post i made in the patchnotes-topic:

Your problem PGI is that you are not able to make a good matchmaker, throwing good players and newbees in one pool, not the "OP-ness" some weapons and Mechs have.

You can look at all your stats and do "eay-peasy"-excel-sheet-mikro adjustments, but the true problem is that with your one-way-Tier system and horrible matchmaker you cause those problems.

Wich player is for example piloting a NTG with dual gauss+1/2ERPPC's and is doing an above-average-performance? Mr. "I threw some dices back in the days and now i'm piloting my big stompy LRM-Robot on weekends" or Mr. "i play several times a week and want to get good at the game and comp scene?"

Don't get me wrong, i don't judge people for their playstyle and skill, everyone has it's own aspiration to the game, and in my current Unit there are a lot of players of the first type i mentioned. No problem with them, i met some of those guys in Real Life and have a good friendship with them.

It is not the case that Gauss-PPC Combo is an "easy-peasy" loadout, i would assume that most pilots playing this game would have a lot of trouble doing more that 200dmg if they were forced to play with his loadout, not only because of the aiming-problem but as well because of the required awareness to get proper positioning and timing.

So what happens if both types of players get thrown into a match? Of course the Gauss-PPC is dominating in most of the cases, when targets stand in the open or constantly poke on the same spot because players don't know how to behave in a T1- or competetive-surrounding. But your stats show only "Gauss/PPC OP" or "NTG OP", and you go nerf them (and with that also close the door for Normal or below-average Pilots wich want to try those mechs/loadouts).

So what would be the solution to this problem? Install a Tier system wich is not leading to everyone grinding enough ending up in tier 1 at some point, but make it harder for players to go above tier 3 and even harder above tier 2. So instead of making a linear slightly steep ramp like you have now make it more like a bowel, relatively easy to go out of T5, a little bit less easy to go out of T4, and on the other side harder to go to T2 and T1.

With that you can ensure games are a lot more balanced and enjoyable for all groups of players and i am sure your mech and weapons stats show something different.

[Reno Blade]

Lol peter... sounds as if all pro gamers should play Gauss PPC meta because all other pro's are doing it too.
and no, there is no secret Energy Draw, just simple GH grouping.

[Wintersdark]

Peter Overheater, on 16 July 2017 - 03:58 AM, said:

So what would be the solution to this problem? Install a Tier system wich is not leading to everyone grinding enough ending up in tier 1 at some point, but make it harder for players to go above tier 3 and even harder above tier 2. So instead of making a linear slightly steep ramp like you have now make it more like a bowel, relatively easy to go out of T5, a little bit less easy to go out of T4, and on the other side harder to go to T2 and T1.

With that you can ensure games are a lot more balanced and enjoyable for all groups of players and i am sure your mech and weapons stats show something different.

The tier system is trash, but it doesn't matter.

I said this when they introduced PSR, and I'll say it again now:

The actual purpose of PSR is very simple. It protects raw newbies from veterans. Nothing more, nothing less.

It does this. It's an XP bar, and as you progress (quickly, if your good, or slowly if your bad, but you will progress inevitably) the PSR system ensures you meet fewer and fewer newbies when player populations allow.

This prevents raw newbies from being OMGWTFPWNED by vets, at least until they learn to play to some basic degree - at least, as much as any system can when there are so few players to match with.


Before we had PSR, we had Elo. Elo did work to some degree, but was foiled not by an algorithm or design problem, but instead because so many matches had to have a large spread of players simply because there was no choice: It was a wide skill spread or no match. This resulted in a lot of matches where the result tended to move towards random, causing people to excessively gravitate to mid-Elo ranking.

And that problem still exists, There simply aren't enough players to reliably make 12v12 matches with players of close skill ranking.


So, PSR was born. PSR just says "Hey, you've played long enough, suck it up, and leave the newbies alone." You may not be good at the game, but you're experienced enough, so your on your own.


Is that ideal? No, absolutely not. But there's no alternative: It doesn't matter how accurately you can measure skill if there aren't enough players to get matches filled only with closely-ranked players.

[TELEFORCE]

What I'd like to know is if the ATMs have the effect of having a built-in Artemis FCS like they do in canon. I didn't play around with them in PTS enough to check on that.

[Andi Nagasia]

TELEFORCE, on 16 July 2017 - 03:31 PM, said:

What I'd like to know is if the ATMs have the effect of having a built-in Artemis FCS like they do in canon. I didn't play around with them in PTS enough to check on that.

well Artemis in MWO only gives a -35% Missile Spread,
LRM5 & LRM10 = 4.2Spread(-2.73Spread with Artemis)
LRM15 & LRM20 = 5.2Spread(-3.38Spread with Artemis)

ATM3 & ATM6 = 3.0Spread,
ATM9 & ATM12 = 3.5Spread,
so they are less than LRM+A but not too much less,
i think they will be fine in the Spread Department,

[TELEFORCE]

How about the lock-on time?