81 replies to this topic

[Antares102]

So are heavy lasers viable now?
The biggest change from the PTS that I can see is that the HLL got 18 damage now and "only" 5.75s cooldown.
Still I cannot see a general application for these weapons.
I mean yes you can to MAD-IIC with alpha of 78 now but you will also have 70 heat.

Clan got nothing new to play with
(and I despise LRM like ATM)

Edited by Antares102, 15 July 2017 - 01:29 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

HLL got 18 damage?

*looks*

Oh snap it did. I hadn't even noticed. My Shadowcat is going to be quite pleased with this development.

[Battlemaster56]

Heavy medium to Large face time is still large even with full duration nodes, the only good one is Heavy Small Lasers as their duration is not long heat is manageable. Better off using er lasers and pulses over them.

Unless you shoot at heavy and assault legs.

[El Bandito]

Antares102, on 15 July 2017 - 01:24 AM, said:

So are heavy lasers viable now?
The biggest change from the PTS that I can see is that the HLL got 18 damage now and "only" 5.75s cooldown.
Still I cannot see a general application for these weapons.
I mean yes you can to MAD-IIC with alpha of 78 now but you will also have 70 heat.

It should be fun. Incoming B33f's videos on "Maximum Vomit".

[RestosIII]

Battlemaster56, on 15 July 2017 - 01:32 AM, said:

Unless you shoot at heavy and assault legs.

I'll happily be doing that in my Cute Fox. Finally having something with more punch than 3 ERMLas will be worth it, despite the burn time.

[Battlemaster56]

RestosIII, on 15 July 2017 - 02:01 AM, said:

I'll happily be doing that in my Cute Fox. Finally having something with more punch than 3 ERMLas will be worth it, despite the burn time.

Now think about it they buff HSL damage to 6.5 my cheetah's gonna enjoy that, HML I could use on my linebackers and get some nice leg shots off.

[Luminis]

Meh. There might be some niche applications, but:

• Range is bad
  
• Heat is bad
  
• Duration is bad
  
• Crit slot requirement is bad

The obvious advantage is the damage per ton and hardpoint but with the cERML now having its 800m max range, I'd always run three cERMLs over a singular HLL if I got the hard points and if tonnage allows, I'd rather run an ERPPC. So, said niche application seems to be 'Mechs that are starved for both hardpoints and tonnage. Otherwise, meh.

[davoodoo]

nope, heavy lasers still trash, with 1.55s duration you can go **** yourself...

at least atms got spread decrease, but 200 velocity and minimal range doesnt change the fact that its gonna be poking stick at best and not main weapon system.

hgauss still 180m range...why?
mrms 4.6 spread... oh ffs, itll miss frontal profile of atlas at 400m...

i hope that dmg on hppc isnt spread, that would actually make it decent.

also why the **** does cmpl deal same dmg cermed... havent we already had this with lpl and ll in the past.
I wont pay with double tonnage for 0.35s duration and 1.1s overall cd...

also uac20/ac20 still at ghost heat 1...im changing my kgc000 into ac2 boat...

Edited by davoodoo, 15 July 2017 - 02:32 AM.

[Antares102]

Luminis, on 15 July 2017 - 02:26 AM, said:

So, said niche application seems to be 'Mechs that are starved for both hardpoints and tonnage. Otherwise, meh.

Yes this was more or less the conclusion from PTS.
Heavy lasers will see not much use IMO.

[RestosIII]

davoodoo, on 15 July 2017 - 02:26 AM, said:

i hope that dmg on hppc isnt spread, that would actually make it decent.

It's confirmed pinpoint damage.

[davoodoo]

RestosIII, on 15 July 2017 - 02:42 AM, said:

It's confirmed pinpoint damage.

pgi did something good, too bad they nerfed cmpl while doing so...

[Paigan]

Luminis, on 15 July 2017 - 02:26 AM, said:

Meh. There might be some niche applications, but:

• Range is bad
  
• Heat is bad
  
• Duration is bad
  
• Crit slot requirement is bad

The obvious advantage is the damage per ton and hardpoint but with the cERML now having its 800m max range, I'd always run three cERMLs over a singular HLL if I got the hard points and if tonnage allows, I'd rather run an ERPPC. So, said niche application seems to be 'Mechs that are starved for both hardpoints and tonnage. Otherwise, meh.

Pretty much what I said in the initial HLL thread.
I normalized the values and that weapon is BAD in everything except "damage per hardpoint". And guess how relevant that value is.

Edited by Paigan, 15 July 2017 - 03:02 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

HLLs got better, at least they are above 1 damage per heat now, but they still have no place on any laser vomit mech. The simple fact is that those builds are limited by slots more than tonnage, LPL+ERML is already light, and more heat efficient with better range and duration. You can drop ferro to make the extra slots, but then you end up with a build that has the same number of heatsinks and slightly worse heat efficiency, much less range and much longer duration, though in fairness with a considerably higher alpha... its not worth it for the drawbacks though, especially since youll overheat firing it twice.

The only place i can immediately see me using them is HMLs on a kitfox (because 4 high mounts) and possibly paired HLLs with LAA in the right arm of a Nova Cat C, with 3 UAC5s in the left arm, since it wont have the tonnage to do that with paired LPLs, and it has plenty of slots.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 15 July 2017 - 09:49 AM.

[ScrubLord1]

The long durations of HML/HLL and high slot/low tonnage requirements preclude heavies/assaults from using them effectively. The old laser combinations are still way better.

They might actually make good high alpha/low tonnage weapons for light/medium mechs that can also flank easily to negate the long burn times. ACH can definitely make it work.

Edited by ScrubLord1, 15 July 2017 - 04:16 AM.

[Khobai]

the heat is still too high on heavy lasers

Heavy Small Laser should be 4.25 -> 3.9 Heat
Heavy Medium Laser should be 8 -> 7 Heat
Heavy Large Laser should be 17 -> 15 Heat

and the cooldowns are also still way too long. They need to shave at least .25s off each cooldown.

Heavy Small Laser should be 4s -> 3.75s
Heavy Medium Laser should be 5s -> 4.75s
Heavy Large Laser should be 5.75s -> 5.5s

Quote

nope, heavy lasers still trash, with 1.55s duration you can go **** yourself...

But its 18 damage. Thats more damage per tick than a Large Pulse Laser.

The duration is no longer the problem. There is no rule that says you have to keep the HLL on target for the full duration, and now even a partial burn from a heavy large laser can hurt as much as a LPL.

The heat and cooldown are the problems. Thats where it loses badly to the LPL.

Edited by Khobai, 15 July 2017 - 04:42 AM.

[davoodoo]

ScrubLord1, on 15 July 2017 - 04:14 AM, said:

They might actually make good high alpha/low tonnage weapons for light/medium mechs that can flank easily to negate the long burn times.

But then lights and fast mediums cant just stare at enemy for 1.5s and theyll lose tons of damage from getting it off the target while firing on the move.

Edited by davoodoo, 15 July 2017 - 04:16 AM.

[Valhallan]

huh? you can rock a 78 lazer alpha right now already, 6xmpl (45) + 3xerll (33), even eating the GH it's even slightly cooler at 67.2 heat right now, while letting you laze with a 3xerll for long range.

[Escef]

Heavy small is ok, the medium is usable, the Large I'm leery of.

[Skanderborg]

I'm going to fool around with a Heavy laser / Gauss vomit on my Night Gyr since ERPPC's might not be an option anymore.

Edited by Skanderborg, 15 July 2017 - 05:11 AM.

[ScrubLord1]

davoodoo, on 15 July 2017 - 04:15 AM, said:

But then lights and fast mediums cant just stare at enemy for 1.5s and theyll lose tons of damage from getting it off the target while firing on the move.

And why not? I'm talking about flanking. You are the same page, right..?