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Gauss/ppc And Why The Ghost Heat Change Is Bad


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#161 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 11:57 AM

View PostAntares102, on 16 July 2017 - 11:49 AM, said:

I fully support this statement at least from a SoloQ perspective. I never see more than one Gauss/PPC mech and most of the time its a MAD-IIC-D which is not the full blown 2xGauss/2xPPC anyway.
Since Gauss/PPC require "much" more skill to operate correctly they arent that widespread anyway.
This might be different for top competitve play though.


Just like a real K-9 Urbie is always far behind the friendly formation Posted Image


Yeah I'm hesitant to cite competitive play, but I'm pretty sure the Night Gyr was primarily the only PPC Gauss mech used. I'm sure Quicksilver will come by at some point to correct me if I'm wrong.

#162 Coolant

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 12:22 PM

I'm totally 100% for the change. How come it seems like the changes rarely affect me? Why does it seem like my builds rarely get nerfed? Perhaps it's because I don't feel the need to conform to the "meta"? Or visit websites to get my builds?

#163 Antares102

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 12:27 PM

Dont know if this list has already been produced earlier, but what mechs actually CAN do Gauss/PPC anyway in a reasonable way? With reasonable I mean at least two of one kind and one of the other with enough speed, HS and ammo.
In italic those that can do the real nasty 2/2 version.

Please correct me if I missed one but this is my list:

Clan:
Dire Wolf (2G/2P) very rare
Supernova (2G/2P) common
Kodiak (2G/2P) rare
Night Gyr (2G/1P, 1G/2P) very common
Marauder IIC (2G/2P, 2G/1P) very common
Timber Wolf (1G/2P) very rare
Ebon Jaguar (1G/2P) very rare
Highlander (1G/2P) never seen that

IS:
Atlas (1G/2P) lol?
Banshee (1G/2P) never seen that
King Crab (2G/2P) rare
Cyclops (1G/2P) never seen that
Highlander (1G/2P) never seen that
Mauler (2G/2P) very rare
Battlemaster (1G/2P) never seen that
Zeus (1G/2P) never seen that
Victor (1G/2P) rare
Marauder (1G/2P) never seen that
Orion (1G/2P) never seen that

Edited by Antares102, 16 July 2017 - 12:28 PM.


#164 L0stA1m

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 12:27 PM

View PostCoolant, on 16 July 2017 - 12:22 PM, said:

I'm totally 100% for the change. How come it seems like the changes rarely affect me? Why does it seem like my builds rarely get nerfed? Perhaps it's because I don't feel the need to conform to the "meta"? Or visit websites to get my builds?


maybe you dont know what meta means?

#165 davoodoo

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 12:27 PM

View PostCoolant, on 16 July 2017 - 12:22 PM, said:

I'm totally 100% for the change. How come it seems like the changes rarely affect me? Why does it seem like my builds rarely get nerfed? Perhaps it's because I don't feel the need to conform to the "meta"? Or visit websites to get my builds?

Well i dont run meta yet there was 2 changes that affected me.

engine decoupling though that was hard to avoid and ghost heat on uac10, i can live without quad kodiak, but ffs i wanted 3 uac10 on my mad2c a, that would make it rather fun to sacrifice engine for extra firepower.

Edited by davoodoo, 16 July 2017 - 12:29 PM.


#166 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 07:32 AM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 16 July 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

Yeah I'm hesitant to cite competitive play, but I'm pretty sure the Night Gyr was primarily the only PPC Gauss mech used. I'm sure Quicksilver will come by at some point to correct me if I'm wrong.

This is pretty much the case, the Timby/Night Gyr are the only real Gauss/PPC mechs left. Mediums aren't affected by this and swap between PPCs and laser vomit spam HBK-IIC-As. Assaults can run PPC/Gauss, but with the Warhawk/SVN-C as strong as they are, it is mostly about being able to spam quad ERPPC or mid-range laser vomit (which just got better) than Gauss/PPCs (since the platforms aren't near as strong as they used to be) and ironically, quad ERPPC just got better which just makes me giggle. Hell, if an assault with solid mounts and PPC heat gen quirks came along on the IS side, ERPPC spam may become a thing over there too.

Honestly, with the full max range being returned to cERMLs and the cMPL nerf going through, I think you will see a major return of Gauss/Laser vomit at mid-long range because their ability to threaten at 600m just got returned. I may even take the good ol Space Whale out for a drive.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 17 July 2017 - 07:36 AM.


#167 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:15 AM

View PostAntares102, on 16 July 2017 - 12:27 PM, said:

Dont know if this list has already been produced earlier, but what mechs actually CAN do Gauss/PPC anyway in a reasonable way? With reasonable I mean at least two of one kind and one of the other with enough speed, HS and ammo.
In italic those that can do the real nasty 2/2 version.

Please correct me if I missed one but this is my list:

Clan:
Dire Wolf (2G/2P) very rare
Supernova (2G/2P) common
Kodiak (2G/2P) rare
Night Gyr (2G/1P, 1G/2P) very common
Marauder IIC (2G/2P, 2G/1P) very common
Timber Wolf (1G/2P) very rare
Ebon Jaguar (1G/2P) very rare
Highlander (1G/2P) never seen that

IS:
Atlas (1G/2P) lol?
Banshee (1G/2P) never seen that
King Crab (2G/2P) rare
Cyclops (1G/2P) never seen that
Highlander (1G/2P) never seen that
Mauler (2G/2P) very rare
Battlemaster (1G/2P) never seen that
Zeus (1G/2P) never seen that
Victor (1G/2P) rare
Marauder (1G/2P) never seen that
Orion (1G/2P) never seen that


All of the IS mechs are super rare, the only one I used was the DS for old time's sake. But the Sleipnir can do dual-dual, which I have ran a couple times... its feast or famine-y because of dual sidetorso gauss and XL engine. LFE maybe?

View PostQuicksilver Kalasa, on 17 July 2017 - 07:32 AM, said:

This is pretty much the case, the Timby/Night Gyr are the only real Gauss/PPC mechs left. Mediums aren't affected by this and swap between PPCs and laser vomit spam HBK-IIC-As. Assaults can run PPC/Gauss, but with the Warhawk/SVN-C as strong as they are, it is mostly about being able to spam quad ERPPC or mid-range laser vomit (which just got better) than Gauss/PPCs (since the platforms aren't near as strong as they used to be) and ironically, quad ERPPC just got better which just makes me giggle. Hell, if an assault with solid mounts and PPC heat gen quirks came along on the IS side, ERPPC spam may become a thing over there too.

Honestly, with the full max range being returned to cERMLs and the cMPL nerf going through, I think you will see a major return of Gauss/Laser vomit at mid-long range because their ability to threaten at 600m just got returned. I may even take the good ol Space Whale out for a drive.


This is kind of the feeling I was getting.

I'm dismayed that so many people here are still in the "zOMG PPC-Gauss is better than everything" camp. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

#168 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:22 AM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 17 July 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

I'm dismayed that so many people here are still in the "zOMG PPC-Gauss is better than everything" camp. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

If there was a better 2 Gauss/2 ERPPC non-hero assault than the MAD-IIC-C (which is near as slow as a Whale), Whale (convergence isn't the best on this), or KDK-3 (too sluggish to poke good enough to protect it from being gimped) you might see it more often.

#169 M E M E M A C H I N E

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:24 AM

This is textbook PGI logic. Someone finds a good build for a mech (night gyr) and uses it. Then there is a blanket weapon nerf that nerfs that one mech, but also screws many many other mechs over.

#170 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:25 AM

View PostQuicksilver Kalasa, on 17 July 2017 - 08:22 AM, said:

If there was a better 2 Gauss/2 ERPPC non-hero assault than the MAD-IIC-C (which is near as slow as a Whale), Whale (convergence isn't the best on this), or KDK-3 (too sluggish to poke good enough to protect it from being gimped) you might see it more often.


Yeah the MAD-IIC-C is slow, but the convergence sure is nice compared to the NTG's dual gauss.

The Mad Cat Mk. II has the same convergence issue as the NTG, but it will be faster than the MAD-IIC.

#171 M E M E M A C H I N E

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:25 AM

View PostAntares102, on 16 July 2017 - 12:27 PM, said:

Dont know if this list has already been produced earlier, but what mechs actually CAN do Gauss/PPC anyway in a reasonable way? With reasonable I mean at least two of one kind and one of the other with enough speed, HS and ammo.
In italic those that can do the real nasty 2/2 version.

Please correct me if I missed one but this is my list:

Clan:
Dire Wolf (2G/2P) very rare
Supernova (2G/2P) common
Kodiak (2G/2P) rare
Night Gyr (2G/1P, 1G/2P) very common
Marauder IIC (2G/2P, 2G/1P) very common
Timber Wolf (1G/2P) very rare
Ebon Jaguar (1G/2P) very rare
Highlander (1G/2P) never seen that

IS:
Atlas (1G/2P) lol?
Banshee (1G/2P) never seen that
King Crab (2G/2P) rare
Cyclops (1G/2P) never seen that
Highlander (1G/2P) never seen that
Mauler (2G/2P) very rare
Battlemaster (1G/2P) never seen that
Zeus (1G/2P) never seen that
Victor (1G/2P) rare
Marauder (1G/2P) never seen that
Orion (1G/2P) never seen that


You're missing orion IIC-C 2G/1P so rare I am the only person I know who has ever done it

#172 kapusta11

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:39 AM

View PostQuicksilver Kalasa, on 17 July 2017 - 07:32 AM, said:

Hell, if an assault with solid mounts and PPC heat gen quirks came along on the IS side, ERPPC spam may become a thing over there too.


Hellslinger has 5% energy heat and 20% PPC velocity. Only 19 DHS with LFE350 though.

Edited by kapusta11, 17 July 2017 - 08:40 AM.


#173 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:59 AM

View Postkapusta11, on 17 July 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:


Hellslinger has 5% energy heat and 20% PPC velocity. Only 19 DHS with LFE350 though.

Yeah, that isn't enough. Keep in mind it does less damage than a Warhawk and it has a 13% heat gen ON TOP of having more like 30 DHS. Granted it has high mounts so I suppose I should compare it to the Supernova which doesn't have any extra heat gen, just 10-11 extra DHS and a slower speed.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 17 July 2017 - 09:11 AM.


#174 Dr Hobo

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:31 AM

View PostAntares102, on 16 July 2017 - 12:27 PM, said:

Dont know if this list has already been produced earlier, but what mechs actually CAN do Gauss/PPC anyway in a reasonable way? With reasonable I mean at least two of one kind and one of the other with enough speed, HS and ammo.
In italic those that can do the real nasty 2/2 version.

Please correct me if I missed one but this is my list:

Clan:
Dire Wolf (2G/2P) very rare
Supernova (2G/2P) common
Kodiak (2G/2P) rare
Night Gyr (2G/1P, 1G/2P) very common
Marauder IIC (2G/2P, 2G/1P) very common
Timber Wolf (1G/2P) very rare
Ebon Jaguar (1G/2P) very rare
Highlander (1G/2P) never seen that

IS:
Atlas (1G/2P) lol?
Banshee (1G/2P) never seen that
King Crab (2G/2P) rare
Cyclops (1G/2P) never seen that
Highlander (1G/2P) never seen that
Mauler (2G/2P) very rare
Battlemaster (1G/2P) never seen that
Zeus (1G/2P) never seen that
Victor (1G/2P) rare
Marauder (1G/2P) never seen that
Orion (1G/2P) never seen that



You're rank 1, come back down to us plebs at 4 and you'll see all sorts of weird builds. I personally run the Marauder one because I simply haven't gotten around to getting the Hero yet.

Direwolf-Maybe like 20% of DW drivers still do it,but they get LRM'd to death when they get Narc'd by a fast light,so it's a dying breed I'd say. I see more brawler DW's than I see sniper ones thankfully.

Have yet to see a SN in Gauss/PPC build,I only see the LRM 80 ones and ammo. They're fun to hit in the face over and over because most pilots just don't move.

I haven't seen that build in Tier 4/3 since the Kodiak came out,I seen it alot,then it swapped to the brawler build.

I see all sorts of weird Night Gyr builds,but none like this,or if I do,it's not common here on the bottom. I usually see the more common ERLL and various laser puke builds.

I actually see mostly brawler Marauder 2Cs and Scorches built on LBXs,or dakka builds. Not many of the sniper types here.

Haven't seen a Timberwolf on that build,I usually see dakka,lasers,or 1 gauss with other weapons.

I run that build on my Ebon Jag because I got tired of trying to brawl in something as wide as that.

I've seen it once. But I usually see LBX SRM or LRM builds on these. I don't see these much at all really.

Was a thing during the days of the Gaussapults,but not with ERPPCs. They had really bad hitreg at the time,so it was other weapons,just guassapults did it better.

Wubshees and Lightningshees are what I usually see,if I see one. There's someone whos got a Phoenix wub that I see on occasion.

I run this build,toasty,but fun. But I prefer the AC20 or chainsaw Ultra 5 build. It's it's own weird fun,but I only have it on my Loyalty crab as a test right now,ill probably go back to dual AC20s or quad 5s eventually.

LRM and brawler Cyclops are common here,haven't seen this one yet.

I haven't seen a Highlander in ages, I hear they're extinct,or nearly so.

I see LRM and quac AC5 maulers more than anyhting else.

Haven't seen a Battlemaster in ages.

I see laser puke and lrm puke Zeus's down here.

Victors sorta died when they got nerfed awhile back. Last one I seen was LBX in it's ballistic with MPL.

I run this build because I'm too lazy/cheap to actually buy the Hero. I wanted to try the build before I decided to get one(and clean out my Marauders). It's fun like this,but I sorta like my LBX build on a standard engine.

Literally who? I haven't seen an Orion that wasn't a Trial in ages. Like,really those things are rare as Vindicator pilots that didn;t buy the pack.

#175 Ghogiel

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:44 AM

Hmm. Been a while since I was running gauss vomit on half my mechs.

#176 IanSane

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 07:10 PM

The issue I have with linking the two is it seems to register ghost heat with ERPPC even when NOT firing a gauss. There is no way a single ERPPC should be generating 60% of my mechs total heat with 1 shot even not firing the gauss.

#177 Athom83

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 09:56 AM

View PostAntares102, on 16 July 2017 - 12:27 PM, said:

IS:
Atlas (1G/2P) lol?
Cyclops (1G/2P) never seen that
Highlander (1G/2P) never seen that
Battlemaster (1G/2P) never seen that
Zeus (1G/2P) never seen that
Marauder (1G/2P) never seen that
Orion (1G/2P) never seen that

Actually, I've seen all of these... a few of them even in the last week.


View PostIanSane, on 10 August 2017 - 07:10 PM, said:

The issue I have with linking the two is it seems to register ghost heat with ERPPC even when NOT firing a gauss. There is no way a single ERPPC should be generating 60% of my mechs total heat with 1 shot even not firing the gauss.

That... shouldn't be happening. Build?





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