176 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

So after sleeping off my state of mind from last night, I'm a little more level headed but still feeling incredibly disappointed. I think there are some points here that people are not getting.

1) PPC/Gauss has faded in efficacy since the skill tree. Yeah, its still there, yeah it still works, but its not really the power house anymore due to overall damage output. Its the same situation where laser vomit went from being the dominant loadout to just a solid loadout, but since it still worked decently, people kept using it, so it took everybody a long time to realize that it wasn't that dominant anymore.

2) The Night Gyr was really the only mech exclusively using the PPC/Gauss combo, and thats because poptarting is its primary game right now. Other loadouts are done on more agile mechs. Assaults can run it, but Assaults can also run lasers, or PPC/dakka combos that have more DPS.

3) What does this actually change? Frankly, the 2 Gauss single ER PPC Night Gyr might still work pretty well, it will just run hotter and trade TC/ERMLs for more DHS. Its really the assaults that lose the options, because now IS mechs like the HGN or the VTR can't do Gauss/2 HPPC to rival the Night Gyr's alpha so they will go back to PPCs/ACs, and Clan assaults will assuredly switch to more DPS oriented builds like they already had (honestly, dakka/ppc MAD-IIC is already best MAD-IIC imo). So higher DPS PPFLD or laser vomit... which is already here..

All-in-all, this is just going to curb an option for assaults which already wasn't even the optimal option in the majority of cases, which is why I think it is a very bad change.

[Spheroid]

If it has truly faded from meta and you yourself use meta how would you be inconvienced by this nerf? Are you going to miss the casual or recreational use of PPFLD?

I am not understanding the rage.

[Gas Guzzler]

Spheroid, on 15 July 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

If it has truly faded from meta and you yourself use meta how would you be inconvienced by this nerf? Are you going to miss the casual or recreational use of PPFLD?

I am not understanding the rage.

I use a lot of things. I used the Black Knight when everyone said it was garbage. I used the Supernova before it was cool.

I like having options, and i don't like being hamstrung by arbitrary penalties. Adding ghost heat to the combo just means it won't be enjoyable to use, and it was already just an option for a build on certain assaults, so it will be easy to just not use them at this point. Loss of variety sucks, and I also liked running the DS/HGN with PPC Gauss which was NOT even close to meta, but was still fun. It was also going to get a noticeable buff with HPPCs coming to the point where they actually might be respectable assault mechs, but nope, we can't have nice things.

Also, anytime something is nerfed that just didn't really need to be nerfed, its cause for unrest.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 15 July 2017 - 08:19 AM.

[Nightbird]

It's just a play style that PGI is completely removing from the game for no good reason. The choices were: long range ER-Laser sniper, PPC-Gauss sniper, mid range laser vomit, mid range dakka, short range SRM/dakka, short range laser for lights, and of course LRM boats.

For people that want to play this game as a tactical shooter, PPC-Gauss was a play style that allowed battlefield control, required both strategic awareness and shooting ability. Did you see this on the battlefield all the time then? No, out of 12 mechs in QP, an average of one or less used it. Variety is what keeps the game alive, I'm also disappointed that PGI is lowering the ceiling in terms of removing the most difficult to master play style.

Edited by NlGHTBlRD, 15 July 2017 - 08:26 AM.

[Antares102]

The Gauss/PPC nerf is yet another example of stacking nerf upon nerf without revoking older ones.
Originally Gauss had 4.5s cooldown. It was nerfed to 5s, then CERPPC got nerfed from 4s to 4.5s.
Now they realized that not the individual weapon is the problem but the combination.
Well thats ok but how about revoking at least the CERPPC from 4.5 to 4 sec.

Its just like the KDK-3. Originally fireing 4x UAC10 with double tap with only mild GH over 600m was the issue but ONLY on the KDK-3.
But in the end the KDK-3 got double and triple nerfed without revoking a single previous nerf that was no longer necessary.
Many other chassis suffered just because the KDK-3 could make use of UAC10 so well.

Gauss/PPC is exactly the same story over and over again.
How many chassis actually can make use of 2xGauss/2xPPC?
Not a lot. And seriously 2xGauss/1xPPC or 1xGauss/2xPPC is not that OP considering the tonnage/slots investment.

Edited by Antares102, 15 July 2017 - 08:35 AM.

[Antares102]

NlGHTBlRD, on 15 July 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

Variety is what keeps the game alive, I'm also disappointed that PGI is lowering the ceiling in terms of removing the most difficult to master play style.

Me as well, this game is balanced around the potato population and not from the top like every other game.
Or better the whining potato population is balancing this game, which uses twitter and tweets Russ all the time.

[davoodoo]

Im yet to actually see a problem with gauss/ppc combo.

I havent seen a mech popping over 800 dmg with it, yet i constantly see it happen even on 50 ton hbk2c using dual uac10 or pulsevomit.

[SilentWolff]

The only fair answer is to nerf all weapons that do damage. That way, no one will die and no ones feelings will be hurt.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2017 - 08:12 AM, said:

So after sleeping off my state of mind from last night, I'm a little more level headed but still feeling incredibly disappointed. I think there are some points here that people are not getting.

1) PPC/Gauss has faded in efficacy since the skill tree. Yeah, its still there, yeah it still works, but its not really the power house anymore due to overall damage output. Its the same situation where laser vomit went from being the dominant loadout to just a solid loadout, but since it still worked decently, people kept using it, so it took everybody a long time to realize that it wasn't that dominant anymore.

2) The Night Gyr was really the only mech exclusively using the PPC/Gauss combo, and thats because poptarting is its primary game right now. Other loadouts are done on more agile mechs. Assaults can run it, but Assaults can also run lasers, or PPC/dakka combos that have more DPS.

3) What does this actually change? Frankly, the 2 Gauss single ER PPC Night Gyr might still work pretty well, it will just run hotter and trade TC/ERMLs for more DHS. Its really the assaults that lose the options, because now IS mechs like the HGN or the VTR can't do Gauss/2 HPPC to rival the Night Gyr's alpha so they will go back to PPCs/ACs, and Clan assaults will assuredly switch to more DPS oriented builds like they already had (honestly, dakka/ppc MAD-IIC is already best MAD-IIC imo). So higher DPS PPFLD or laser vomit... which is already here..

All-in-all, this is just going to curb an option for assaults which already wasn't even the optimal option in the majority of cases, which is why I think it is a very bad change.

The only thing it changes is now you have to cycle between the two weapons rather than firing all of them at the same time.

Seriously you all need to stop with the Alpha Warrior Online stuff already. Being able to click one button over and over and over and have top performance is a broken game mechanic that needs to go away.

[davoodoo]

Viktor Drake, on 15 July 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

Seriously you all need to stop with the Alpha Warrior Online stuff already. Being able to click one button over and over and over and have top performance is a broken game mechanic that needs to go away.

and yet it worked in mw4 and it worked in mw3 without any limiters in either...

ppl should seriously stop thinking that tanks can actually tank damage...

Edited by davoodoo, 15 July 2017 - 08:43 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Viktor Drake, on 15 July 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

The only thing it changes is now you have to cycle between the two weapons rather than firing all of them at the same time.

Seriously you all need to stop with the Alpha Warrior Online stuff already. Being able to click one button over and over and over and have top performance is a broken game mechanic that needs to go away.

As a loadout that was already underperforming, adding more limitations is just going to make it underperform more. Frankly you split them up at long range already, but being able to alpha at mid range made up for severely lacking DPS. So if that upside isn't there then that is bad. Its not a broken game mechanic at all, it just in your opinion isnt how the game should be played.

Also, PPC/Gauss requires 2 buttons.

[Nightbird]

Viktor Drake, on 15 July 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

The only thing it changes is now you have to cycle between the two weapons rather than firing all of them at the same time.

Seriously you all need to stop with the Alpha Warrior Online stuff already. Being able to click one button over and over and over and have top performance is a broken game mechanic that needs to go away.

Okay... get in a night gyr and show me how to pop tart with two weapon volleys...

[davoodoo]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

Also, PPC/Gauss requires 2 buttons.

funnily enough theres night gyr variant which requires 1 button.

4 uac5
performs admirably.

Also its not like kdk3 is one button too.

**** my best mech hbk2c a is 1 button for 6 mpl and it goddamn works.

Edited by davoodoo, 15 July 2017 - 08:49 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

I Still think we should test it first, we can make out decisions,
also Gauss PPC is still very strong in MWO, just look to MetaMechs or Smerfys,
Gauss PPC mechs are still very Potent, if not the only Viable Build,

this said i dont think this will effect me much as i always fire my Gauss PPC in pairs, 2Gauss then 2PPC,
only those who only Fire all 4 at the same time all the time will be effected by this, so im ok to test this,

[Jay Leon Hart]

davoodoo, on 15 July 2017 - 08:48 AM, said:

4 uac5
performs admirably.

**** my best mech hbk2c a is 1 button for 6 mpl and it goddamn works.

I can't do these with 1 button (obviously I *could* but it would work so much worse)

3 buttons for my NTG-B (LA/RA/Torso)
4 buttons for my HBK-IIC-A (LT/RT/4 highest/chainfire)

Agreed on the 6MPL beast though. Hope the loss of 3 damage doesn't ruin it, though it really shouldn't with the further heat reduction.

[Gas Guzzler]

Andi Nagasia, on 15 July 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

I Still think we should test it first, we can make out decisions,
also Gauss PPC is still very strong in MWO, just look to MetaMechs or Smerfys,
Gauss PPC mechs are still very Potent, if not the only Viable Build,

this said i dont think this will effect me much as i always fire my Gauss PPC in pairs, 2Gauss then 2PPC,
only those who only Fire all 4 at the same time all the time will be effected by this, so im ok to test this,

Metamechs hasn't really been updated since when? March? Not a good source.

Other loadouts that have been cited already consistently pump out more damage and perform better most of the time.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Okay, it's removing a "playstyle" from the game.
Like removing the poptart meta that dominated before JJ shake and jet thrust reduction years ago.

[Birthright]

I dont think PGI has any clue about game balance at all.

Gaming experience gets worse and worse with every patch.

The tech update is a joke too, more missiles, yey, because LRM spam in every game wasnt enough,
now we can equip more useless tech that has no synergy with anything and quirks are gone too, yey such diversity.

Next patch they gonna say Dakka and Laser Vomit is to strong, so we buffing GAUSS PPC again.

Clueless monkeys.

[Bishop Steiner]

davoodoo, on 15 July 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

and yet it worked in mw4 and it worked in mw3 without any limiters in either...

ppl should seriously stop thinking that tanks can actually tank damage...

ah yes, so "hey one button mash play" worked for the meta in this game and this game... really supports the "plays for variety" argument......

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 July 2017 - 09:19 AM, said:

ah yes, so "hey one button mash play" worked for the meta in this game and this game... really supports the "plays for variety" argument......

Jokes on you because you need 2 buttons to ER PPC-Gauss.

ggrekt