37 replies to this topic

[Imperius]

Title says it all.

[Admiral-Dan]

Nah

[Reno Blade]

Serious question?

Why are players always moving to the same spot, despite different builds?
Why are groups not held accountable for bad teamwork or not positioning for their weapons advantages?
...
Maps are very different on some areas, but combat is usually in the same few areas and many people can use that as advantage.

[JadePanther]

because a circle is perfectly balanced

[Ced Riggs]

Imperius, on 16 July 2017 - 06:20 AM, said:

Title says it all.

Doesn't really say all that much. Tech balance, chassis balance, et.al. aren't subject to map balance. Map balance is subject to spawn locations and pathing. Yet, many maps, especially when combined with Domination, are outright busted to hell and back.

[Imperius]

Ced Riggs, on 16 July 2017 - 07:03 AM, said:

Doesn't really say all that much. Tech balance, chassis balance, et.al. aren't subject to map balance. Map balance is subject to spawn locations and pathing. Yet, many maps, especially when combined with Domination, are outright busted to hell and back.

I will give you example.

As a developer you want people to brawl. You make a cave map or a dense populated city with no sniper lanes.

Why is this hard concept to grasp?

Why can't we pick mechs for maps yet?

[SilentWolff]

PGI couldnt balance a scale

[davoodoo]

Imperius, on 16 July 2017 - 07:52 AM, said:

I will give you example.

As a developer you want people to brawl. You make a cave map or a dense populated city with no sniper lanes.

Why is this hard concept to grasp?

Why can't we pick mechs for maps yet?

because other playstyles need to be viable, so every map needs huge open space and deathtrap to brawl in which due to being a deathtrap is avoided at all costs, just look at crimson strait, saddle and tunnel for brawl, platform and part of town for sniping.

[Wintersdark]

Reno Blade, on 16 July 2017 - 07:03 AM, said:

Serious question?

Why are players always moving to the same spot, despite different builds?
Why are groups not held accountable for bad teamwork or not positioning for their weapons advantages?
...
Maps are very different on some areas, but combat is usually in the same few areas and many people can use that as advantage.

^^^

Maps aren't at fault here. Maps are rarely a problem balance wise, it's almost always a problem of players being dumb monkeys automatically going to the same places and doing the same things even when it's an objectively bad idea.

Obviously, there are cases where map does matter - Domination on some maps as a case in point. Escort, too, but... lets not talk about escort. But these are still not map problems, they are game mode problems.

I can't think of any maps that are really bad for one side or the other outside of game mode problems.

[Revis Volek]

davoodoo, on 16 July 2017 - 08:02 AM, said:

because other playstyles need to be viable, so every map needs huge open space and deathtrap to brawl in which due to being a deathtrap is avoided at all costs, just look at crimson strait, saddle and tunnel for brawl, platform and part of town for sniping.

This is kinda how they seem to make the maps, some of them are better then others obviously but for the most part there are open areas, hard and soft cover, funnels, etc.

But certains modes kill the maps like was noted above, domination for example takes any map, no matter how much there is to do and just creates a stale and static gameplay every time. If say the MFB or Dom cap moved and setup somewhere random within the first minute of the match we would see more of the maps used, more play styles being viable and give people a reason to think rather then just slam w into the center of the map.

Its no so much the maps as it is the modes and i think why skirmish is the favorite for most.

[vettie]

SilentWolff, on 16 July 2017 - 07:54 AM, said:

PGI couldnt balance a scale

Not so.
They would just give it quirks to make it more viable....
Then a skill tree to 'enhance' the quirks..
No need for "balance"

[Tarl Cabot]

Has PGI map creation changed any?

http://www.pcgamer.c...tion-to-detail/

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 16 July 2017 - 10:33 AM.

[Red Shrike]

Imperius, on 16 July 2017 - 07:52 AM, said:

Why can't we pick mechs for maps yet?

Because that would make boating too easy and remove any incentive whatsoever to be a jack-of-all-trades.

At least now you take multiple weapon systems or risk being at a disadvantage.

[Yellonet]

Well, some of my latest thread shows that lots of people here feel that it's great game design to have some maps that completely sucks for certain builds/mechs.

As long as that mentality remains we won't have well balanced maps.

[Tarl Cabot]

From June March 2016 thread by Tarogato
https://mwomercs.com...playable-areas/

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 16 July 2017 - 11:34 AM.

[Imperius]

I'm still waiting for someone to actually realize the weapons aren't really the issue in terms of balance. It's the crappy maps and their layouts.

Step 1 make better maps that force different play styles.
Step 2 remove tonnage limits and go back to weight class limitations.
Step 3 add light, medium, heavy, assault drop deck to QP, with purchase option of more slots
Step 4 set up MM to accept weight class choice instead of mech choice
Step 5 add mech selection after map is shown.
Step 6 bring back 8 v 8

How this would play out.

You would build your drop decks for various different maps.
You choose your weight class and launch the game.
Map is chosen
You decide which mech you're going to pilot from the specific weight class you chose. You only get to choose the mechs in your drop deck (no editing).

Suddenly the game becomes more interesting and fun to play.
Maps become more important.

This basically makes the end game become you have 8*4=32 specialized mech loadouts.

Sound like a win / win

Edited by Imperius, 16 July 2017 - 12:08 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

As a developer you want people to brawl. You make a cave map or a dense populated city with no sniper lanes.

that sounds like an incredibly bad and boring map

a well designed map should have sniping, brawling, and support. canyon network is a good map. your cave map is bad.

[Imperius]

Khobai, on 16 July 2017 - 12:09 PM, said:

that sounds like an incredibly bad and boring map

a well designed map should have sniping, brawling, and support. canyon network is a good map. your cave map is bad.

I disagree, there really is no brawling in the game. Support is the occasional potato with LRM's who shoots them into the side of mountains. Lights constantly tell me their job is not to scout and pick off the wounded.

[Mcgral18]

Tarl Cabot, on 16 July 2017 - 10:33 AM, said:

Has PGI map creation changed any?

http://www.pcgamer.c...tion-to-detail/

Change 15 seconds to three minutes, and it sounds about right


Also add clutter, to remove visibility

[Coolant]

title didn't say it all..please dont assume a single sentence conveys enough of a point to argue a case. I don't get what you are trying to say.