97 replies to this topic

[Abisha]

Dakota1000, on 23 July 2017 - 03:05 AM, said:

Its possible to win 5 matches that you DC'ed from, doesn't really mean the mech's good.

oke let me bit more specific won 5 matches with kills on my name.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Abisha, on 23 July 2017 - 03:22 AM, said:

oke let me bit more specific won 5 matches with kills on my name.

Lemme be a bit more clear, I'm stating that how you do in a match doesn't really give a clear indication of how good the mech is due to the amount of variables present in solo queue. You have different levels of skill on each team and with each player all with different builds and different maps and there's a lot going on. I'm saying that to know if the mech is too weak or too powerful it should be looked at from a statistical perspective with comparisons in hard variables between chassis.


I'm a science guy.

[Abisha]

I am fine with that just know their are no statistics that show the timber is weaker then other mechs of it's class.

What I weight in good mech is it's customization.
In this the timber really is the best it's also very agile and quick and even have JJ.
Most mech's do not come close to this level of greatness IS or Clan alike

[Ced Riggs]

Abisha, on 23 July 2017 - 03:35 AM, said:

What I weight in good mech is it's customization.
In this the timber really is the best it's also very agile and quick and even have JJ.

The Timberwolf doesn't have great customization, unless you either equip "KILL ME" ears. Goose/Pepsi has been nerfed. The only build left for the Timberwolf is Laser Vomit. It's also not agile at all, that statement is plain untrue. You know how is more agile than Timberwolves? Battlemasters. Cyclops. Highlander. And those JJs are mandatory for multiple builds, because only the TBR-S torsi have the required hardpoints. I wish you wouldn't lie to try and make a point.

[PAQUERA]

No, timber is still a very good mech. Move and fire, rinse and repeat

[Abisha]

Ced Riggs, on 23 July 2017 - 03:41 AM, said:

The Timberwolf doesn't have great customization, unless you either equip "KILL ME" ears. Goose/Pepsi has been nerfed. The only build left for the Timberwolf is Laser Vomit. It's also not agile at all, that statement is plain untrue. You know how is more agile than Timberwolves? Battlemasters. Cyclops. Highlander. And those JJs are mandatory for multiple builds, because only the TBR-S torsi have the required hardpoints. I wish you wouldn't lie to try and make a point.

Not really one can outfit a timber also with 4 balistic hardpoints if needed and Still have laser points left and missile points.
Like I say nothing comes close the amount of weapon hardpoints a timber have it's insane for a heavy

my timber have 79 firepower with heat Mgmt of 1.27 No other heavy mech can even wish to fit this amount of weapons with the speed to match on top of that the ears have the same height like Marauder

Edited by Abisha, 23 July 2017 - 04:05 AM.

[Battlemaster56]

TBR just need it's agility readjusted, and remove some those negative quirks on the A LT, and S RT no point keeping thoses on it. And they should focus stregnthing it's generalist gameplay a bit more since there's not many generalist mechs in MWO.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Abisha, on 23 July 2017 - 03:55 AM, said:

Not really one can outfit a timber also with 4 balistic hardpoints if needed and Still have laser points left and missile points.
Like I say nothing comes close the amount of weapon hardpoints a timber have it's insane for a heavy

my timber have 79 firepower with heat Mgmt of 1.27 No other heavy mech can even wish to fit this amount of weapons with the speed to match on top of that the ears have the same height like Marauder

What build are you running exactly?

Besides that I have quite a few builds that reach firepower and cooling of that level and beyond with speed within 5kph but far superior hitboxes.

Even the Hunchback IIC-A at 25 tons lighter can mount 76 firepower and have 38% cooling efficiency using entirely lasers.

[Lightfoot]

I just ran a few matches and the center torso does seem to take the most damage, but it survived all the matches except for the one loss. Mostly a TBR-Prime with LRM10s for the 20's and Heavy Larges for the ER Larges. I would wish it was as nimble as before the engine de-couple, but otherwise it's competitive with other mechs.

The secret to the Mad Cat is it's versatility. It's too easy to boat it, but that makes it weaker. The Prime's mix of LRMs, Lasers, and MG's is probably the best. Multi-range, multi-tactics. Now with Heavy Lasers and LMG's.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Ced Riggs, on 23 July 2017 - 03:41 AM, said:

You know how is more agile than Timberwolves? Battlemasters. Cyclops. Highlander.

Ced Riggs, on 23 July 2017 - 03:41 AM, said:

I wish you wouldn't lie to try and make a point.

ಠ_ಠ

[Beaching Betty]

Its been dead since few months back (?)..

RIP.. One of my favourite clan mech

[Appuagab]

I'm not having much problems with TBR's survivability but its mobility is awful. However, to spread damage effectively I have to hoverturntwish with jumpjets. Yep, that's how PGI sees the roles of jets on a battlefield.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Alexander of Macedon, on 23 July 2017 - 07:04 AM, said:

ಠ_ಠ

He's not wrong, look at the mobility stats ingame and Timber Wolf has less acceleration, turn rate, torso twist rate, only thing its faster in is deceleration, and this is all using the Timber Wolf Prime with omnipod set bonus, the fastest one by a considerable margin.

Its really sorta sad that a 75 ton Clan mech known for mobility is less agile than 90 ton IS assault mechs.

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

Er Timber's been dead (out of fashion) for a while.

It's got the same wooden planks attached to it as the Kodiak. Dont even think about trying to bolster it through skills tree, you might just be able to move a few pixels quicker.

It's all about IS now anyways

[Kokurokoki]

Dakota1000, on 23 July 2017 - 12:45 AM, said:

Its not really if it can or cannot brawl, its how well it brawls. I mean, I can go and brawl in the loyalty Blackjack, but its not a good option.

Orion IIC outbrawls the Timberwolf by a country mile, its about 5kph slower, but it has better hitboxes for a brawl and keeps the LBX in the torsos, allowing you to have an empty arm that you can strip for more tonnage. The Timberwolf has very easy to shoot at hitboxes, it becomes even more of a problem as you move up in tiers, anyone can easily single out and remove one of your torsos at ERPPC optimal ranges and even easier as you get closer, this means if you happen to have a big gun on one side of your mech or an asym loadout you'll get it shot off faster than a Hunchback's hunch in beta. If you're running a symmetric loadout then blowing out the CT is easy no matter where you twist.

Timber Wolf could use some bonus, its only claim to fame is being a jack of all trades, but a master of none, with the Clan options Night Gyr devastates it at poptarting with high firepower, Ebon Jaguar wins against it at carrying lots of guns in high mounts with good speed, Summoner beats it in poptarting with high speed, Mad Dog beats it at missile boating, Orion IIC beats it at brawling, Linebacker beats it at speed, Hellbringer beats it at ECM.

There's pretty much no reason to use a Timber Wolf if you actually know what role you're going for before you buy the mech.

What you say is also true. I'm only T3 so I haven't seen how gameplay is at higher tiers. I also haven't played many of the other mechs you listed aside from the Ebon Jaguar, and I do prefer the EBJ myself due to its weapon placements and hitboxes that I feel leave it less vulnerable than the TBR simply because it can take better advantage of cover unlike the TBR which tends to have to expose itself to enemy fire to get any sort of fire out.

I really do not like the suggishness of the TBR. It does not feel like how the mech is described at all in the lore and I think with the advent of the new IS tech that they should remove the negative agility quirks on the TBR. At least from my experience, the negatives of the hitbox structure would be balanced by the higher agility values of the TBR. You're still squishy for a heavy mech, but skilled pilots should be able to compensate by using the mechs above-average agility to avoid enemy fire and spread damage easier. As it stands now the TBR is simply too slow to accomplish those things, and that makes the weaknesses of its hitboxes all that much more apparent.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Dakota1000, on 23 July 2017 - 09:17 AM, said:

He's not wrong, look at the mobility stats ingame and Timber Wolf has less acceleration, turn rate, torso twist rate, only thing its faster in is deceleration, and this is all using the Timber Wolf Prime with omnipod set bonus, the fastest one by a considerable margin.

Its really sorta sad that a 75 ton Clan mech known for mobility is less agile than 90 ton IS assault mechs.

No, it's actually ********, and I just double-checked to be sure. BLR-2C vs. a TBR-A with assorted omnipods.

TBR: Higher top speed, higher decel, higher torso twist rate, wider torso yaw angle.
BLR: Higher accel, higher turn rate, marginally higher torso pitch angle (<1 degree), a bit of extra weapon arc for the arms, since they can twist a bit past the torso limit.

The TBR is more effective in almost every category, and only behind in a single one relevant to the primary role played by both the TBR and BLR (accel, which only matters if you're trying to play the cover poke game). Assuming both go full into Mobility, the higher base stats on the TBR see the gap widened.

There's a point to be made about the Night Gyr (though as far as I'm concerned it can remain on the trash heap until PPFLD poptarting is dead for good). The TBR is fine. At worst it's only a solid 'mech rather than blatantly overpowered, which seems to be the major complaint of clanners. It easily outperforms most of my IS heavies.

So, uh. Maybe the people who think it's trash now got too used to being equipment-carried. Have fun finding the next lazy meta picks, I guess? Or you could slap on full mobility + survival and actually try to think while playing your Mad Cat.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Alexander of Macedon, on 23 July 2017 - 07:56 PM, said:

No, it's actually ********, and I just double-checked to be sure. BLR-2C vs. a TBR-A with assorted omnipods.

TBR: Higher top speed, higher decel, higher torso twist rate, wider torso yaw angle.
BLR: Higher accel, higher turn rate, marginally higher torso pitch angle (<1 degree), a bit of extra weapon arc for the arms, since they can twist a bit past the torso limit.

The TBR is more effective in almost every category, and only behind in a single one relevant to the primary role played by both the TBR and BLR (accel, which only matters if you're trying to play the cover poke game). Assuming both go full into Mobility, the higher base stats on the TBR see the gap widened.

There's a point to be made about the Night Gyr (though as far as I'm concerned it can remain on the trash heap until PPFLD poptarting is dead for good). The TBR is fine. At worst it's only a solid 'mech rather than blatantly overpowered, which seems to be the major complaint of clanners. It easily outperforms most of my IS heavies.

So, uh. Maybe the people who think it's trash now got too used to being equipment-carried. Have fun finding the next lazy meta picks, I guess? Or you could slap on full mobility + survival and actually try to think while playing your Mad Cat.

Timber Wolf only wins in mobility on the A and S variant and only when you run the full stock omnipod set bonus. Go and compare a meta Timber Wolf to a meta Battlemaster 2C in mobility and we see that the Timber Wolf lags behind greatly.

For example, the Champion Timber Wolf vs Champion Battlemaster so we get a good taste of their standings in the popular meta.



And as you said, the gap only grows wider if pilots pick to go through the mobility tree.

EDIT: Also, lets not even think about the poor man who just wanted to have 5 torso mounted energy weapons on a Timber Wolf, he's got to go through -20% torso yaw speed among a list of other negative quirks.

Edited by Dakota1000, 23 July 2017 - 08:25 PM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

I'm going to have to attribute this one to user error. I find the timber wolf one of the easiest mechs to consistently do at least decent in. It obviously isn't the greatest for very specific roles but it can handle almost all of them efficiently thanks to clam tech, tonnage for guns, jump jet capability, speed, and 75 tonner armor with very strong omni pod configurations. Hitboxes are among the best as long as you don't stick LRMs/ATMs in it. And sure, you can argue for "but the SRM racks are huge too!" but within the brawler playstyle you should not be taking a lot of focused damage in the beginning and middle of a match anyway.. and 4 racks of CSRM6+A + alpha volley from whatever secondary lasers/ballistic you have slapped on should be crippling most mechs very quickly, limiting the ability to return fire.