88 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

So having tried it, RAC sucks ***. Never mind the damage output, the slow-*** projectile of the RAC5, i could barely hit moving targets, hell RAC2 could hit fairly well but it barely does any damage.

Add in the spin system. Realistically, we ought to minimize our shooting, so when target is going cover to cover, naturally we cease firing to save ammo, and then continue once our target is out, or when we briefly switch target. But that only fills up the jam bar even more due to it filling the gauge preemptively when just spinning up.

And then the RNG screwing me over, you think i'd get to pepper a target for long to deal adequate, but no I couldn't even do that. As if that's not bad enough, jam dissipation and duration is at 10s - 9s, that means not only my burst could be short, i could only do so rarely.

At 1 tons of ammo + magazine nodes, it's actually enough to last the match but then there's a lot of missed shots out there.

Having tried the RAC at a 12v12, i can pretty much say with confidence that this is a god-damn failure of implementation. We need WAAAY more velocity for the RAC5 and RAC2, 1650 and 2000 respectively, so we can actually hit people at range.

Also remove the RNG aspect, and turn it into fixed 5s shooting, lower the spin-up and spin-down time to 0.5s and just have the bar only fill up when shooting, but will heat up even when just spinning up or spinning down, and finally just 4s of jam dissipation / jam duration.

Khobai, on 18 July 2017 - 07:05 PM, said:

yes. remember when PGI had all their secret meetings with top comp players on how to balance the game? remember how that turned out? lol... comp players arnt any better at balancing this game than potatos. because it turned out comp players had their own agendas for balancing. go figure.

potato balancing is the way to go. its funny as hell seeing all the comp players cry about their toys getting taken away to make the game more potato friendly. and potatos dont have agendas other than being potatos.

To be fair, Comp players knew the game far better than many potatoes.

And what, you think the extremes are the only options? As if the every-day man doesn't exist. No the right way to go is balance the game in the middle.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 18 July 2017 - 07:39 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

We need WAAAY more velocity for the RAC5 and RAC2, 1650 and 2000 respectively, so we can actually hit people at range.

I havent had problems hitting anyone with RACs. The problem is it doesnt do enough damage to justify the face time.

Half the time it jams while doing less damage than if I just took an AC5

The other half of the time it jams while doing less damage than if I just took a UAC5

To fix the RAC they need to increase the rampupbar length from 5 seconds to 10 seconds. Then make the jam chance 100%.

That way youre rewarded for proper management of the bar and not filling it all the way up. And the RAC will be 100% guaranteed to do a massive burst of damage before jamming (or not jamming if you manage it properly).

Edited by Khobai, 18 July 2017 - 07:26 PM.

[Kangarad]

the only thing I realy dont like is the heat... bit too hot for my taste...

damage seems fine and with the short optimal range the velocity doesnt matter that much.

haven't run into ammo issues with 5 tons per 2 rac5 but they'r def. not something to run with lasers, or on mechs that are missing the full engine heat sinks.

did not have any problems with the jams either.

as expected theyr not a good weapon for taking down lights but they can reliably chew through components of heavys or assaults and some mediums at optimal range. the flow of projectiles kinda helps with guiding em too.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Mcgral18, on 18 July 2017 - 07:11 PM, said:

Comp players want more variety


It just so happens PGI fails to balance, and only a handful are viable at any given time
So, those are used

Khobai, on 18 July 2017 - 07:18 PM, said:

no comp players want whatever will give them an advantage over other players

potatos dont care about being better than other players. they just want to be potatos.
.

Whose word do I trust here...

-forumwarrior that never plays comp and can't use the quote function properly

-active comp player that demonstrates intimate knowledge of the game, both in match and out of match with file digging

[Khobai]

Quote

Whose word do I trust here...

-forumwarrior that never plays comp and can't use the quote function properly

-active comp player that demonstrates intimate knowledge of the game, both in match and out of match with file digging

neither because both are trying to trick you

and im ashamed to say I used to be an active comp player several years ago, won some tournaments, but the meta grew stale as it always does and I decided it wasnt the life for me. Some time later I had an epiphany that comp players are responsible for virtually everything thats wrong with MWO that cant be directly attributed to PGI.

as for intimate knowledge of the game, do you want to host a MWO trivia contest so I can prove my brain is vast repository of useless MWO factoids? In truth anyone can filedig for weapons.xml. Its easy to find. But apparently youve been misled that only elite comp players can use winzip to extract .xml files and open them in notepad. That is beyond the mere skill of a potato.

Quote

as expected theyr not a good weapon for taking down lights but they can reliably chew through components of heavys or assaults and some mediums at optimal range. the flow of projectiles kinda helps with guiding em too.

for its tonnage and crits, and all its downsides, it should be doing a sustained dps of somewhere between 4.5-5.0. That puts it right between an AC10 and AC20 for dps, which feels about right, considering it loses the PPFLD capability of single slug autocannons.

Right now youre lucky to do more than 3 dps with it.

Edited by Khobai, 18 July 2017 - 08:05 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Having tried Urbanmech RAC2 + 4x ERML, it's actually okay. However the difference in the two weapon would mean i couldn't just shoot laser while shooting the RAC2, cause i did have to put constant adequate lead on the rac2 shells -- AHEAD of the target, while the lasers would be ON target.

Even then, the RAC2 piggy backed on the 4x ERML so i could only say that it's that supplementary long-range MG than a true primary weapon in that case. And even so, i achieve only 650 damage at a course of 10 minutes of game (not 10 mins of shooting), even after peppering so much enemies.

Khobai, on 18 July 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

I havent had problems hitting anyone with RACs. The problem is it doesnt do enough damage to justify the face time.

How close were you? I was at 450m with RAC5, and 540m with RAC2. The stare time is actually kind of mitigated with range, that's why the C-ERLL kind of works with range despite long duration, so I maintained good range so the deathly stare won't bite me as hard.

It's bad enough we got spread, that we could not isolate components at a distance, now we can't even hit them at the optimal distance.

Khobai, on 18 July 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

Half the time it jams while doing less damage than if I just took an AC5

The other half of the time it jams while doing less damage than if I just took a UAC5

To fix the RAC they need to increase the rampupbar length from 5 seconds to 10 seconds. Then make the jam chance 100%.

That way youre rewarded for proper management of the bar and not filling it all the way up. And the RAC will be 100% guaranteed to do a massive burst of damage before jamming (or not jamming if you manage it properly).

Yuup, RNG really needs to ******* go.

Khobai, on 18 July 2017 - 07:28 PM, said:

for its tonnage and crits, and all its downsides, it should be doing a sustained dps of somewhere between 4.5-5.0. That puts it right between an AC10 and AC20 for dps, which feels about right, considering it loses the PPFLD capability of single slug autocannons.

Right now youre lucky to do more than 3 dps with it.

Yeah, really. Weapon's not worth it right now. Shame i blew a lot of cbills for the RAC2 and RAC5s. I did better on an AC5s and UAC5s I already had in stock.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 18 July 2017 - 08:10 PM.

[GrimRiver]

My 2 cents(for what it's worth) is what everybody else has been saying since PTS.

1.RAC bar should only fill once it's starts firing rounds.

2.It should jam at 100% of filled bar.

Of course tweak the stats of RAC's to fall in line with the other ballistics after applying 1 and 2.

Other people has been saying it has a heat issue but it hasn't been a REAL issue for me.

But as it stands now it's best used as a suppression weapon(force your target to twist and back away).

Even if you can pack 1000 rounds worth of ammo it's best not to treat it as a serous loadout.

[Punk Oblivion]

I have actually been having a lot of luck with the RAC 5's. I've had a few fail builds, but the right builds on the right mechs can be fairly devastating. Like some others said, they are useless against lights. But can crush a heavy or assault you catch out of position.

Had a couple 700+ dmg matches in a Jm6-DD with 2 RAC5's and 4 LMG's
Had 900+ dmg matches in KGB-000 with 2 RAC5's and 4 AC2's (had a 700+ dmg match on caustic valley even!)
Had 900+ dmg matches in ANH-2A with 2 RAC5's and 4 LB2-X's

Can you tell I like ballistics? :-P

Anyways RAC2's I have not found a use for YET. Going to be building Mediums and Lights tomorrow, We will see if I can fit them in anything.

[xengk]

Replaced the UAC5 with RAC5 on my escort SHD-2D, improved it role significantly.

This Shadow Hawk escort a friendly assault or heavy to provide fire support and suppression fire, the RAC5 fulfills the later. The hail of bullet tend to force enemy to retreat from engagement or start torso twist to spread damage, reducing damage the friendly will take from the enemy, and provide more attack opportunity.

A single RL15 for emergency burst damage.

[SOL Ranger]

RAC5 is DOA for anything other than aesthetic preference. RAC2 is an insult. Unless you're an A-10 fanboy forget these weapons even exist.

[BigBenn]

The RAC's offer a challenge and they are a niche weapon. Dont try and use them on fast movers (thats why you brought at least a pair of ML's, right?), use RAC's on larger mechs and any mech standing still.

I agree with the charge up and the charge down, and the over-heat/jam penalty.

Thus far, I think the RAC's are good to go. I'm not seeing any Superman builds that are unbalancing like the MegaBear quad AC10 monstrosity.

[DerMaulwurf]

The RACs aren't objectively good. However they actually play differently than any other weapon system in MWO, while at least carrying their own weight.

All in all I definitely think that there is room for buffs. And I would like to see some reward to stopping firing before you go into the red (at the very least the gauge must decay noticeably faster than the jam duration).

They add variety to my builds and that's welcome.


PS: I don't do serious builds.

[Joshua Obrien]

So far I like them, I just wish they would remove the blinding effect and shake that they do. It literally makes retaliating nothing short of impossible. I don't want to start playing red flashing simulator and have to uninstall because of damn epileptic induced seizures.

[Tom Sawyer]

I stuck 3 RAC2 and 2 ERML on the Marauder. Turns out with patience and situational awareness you can get decent damage. Had a few 700 damage games. Other team mates where running the Catapult K2 with dual RAC5's and they too where doing ok.

They are not the omg must have dual gauss dual ppc meta builds that just got the nerf bat but for some fun quick play they are worth a try.

[davoodoo]

nothing makes my heart soar as much as firing 2 rac5.

1 jams immediately other can fire forever.
so what should i do, sit there and pump laughable dmg at enemy which can outdmg me, or fall back into cover without doing much dmg because ******* thing jammed...

Edited by davoodoo, 19 July 2017 - 03:10 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

RAC2s: Utter dogshit.
Single RAC5: Not worth. Decent if nobody shoots back.
Double RAC5: Pretty good if mounted on a chassis that can peek just a sliver of their 'mech around or above cover, but not really any better than double AC/10 or whatever. I'm running them on a Rifleman specced into Survival and they're not bad.

Edited by Alexander of Macedon, 19 July 2017 - 03:41 AM.

[Splatkitty]

I played a pair of RAC5's on both a Cat K2 and a KGC-000(L). The face time required is painful. The damage on a stationary or slow moving target is very respectable. The low velocity requires a substantial lead on faster moving targets. The RAC is amazing at providing suppression fire. It's as bad as getting hit by an endless stream of C-LRM's. (take that clanners). What a pair of RAC5's do at close range is very entertaining...for the shooter....close range and face time don't go well together, especially if there is more than one enemy at close hand. Heat mgt is a real PITA with this weapon, twice as troublesome for a pair of them.
If used as a secondary weapon for ranged suppression and MRM/HMG/ERML as primary seems to work best on my KGC. Get them to duck, then push their supper back in. Combining RAC fire with MRM streams is absolutely hilarious to watch on terminal. The target can't get out of the way fast enough.... literally The trade is a very quickly overheated mech.
The cost of RAC/MRM with ammo? a couple mil in C-Bills,
Watching the enemy turn into a mechanical leper....priceless. hehehe
Seeing the "Firepower" of a King Crab exceed the 100 mark while keeping all of its armor in Mechlab is a yuuuuuge bonus.
Risking your CT by exposing yourself long enough to use the RAC....almost worth the trade.... almost.

Used as a suppression weapon the RAC5 really shines. Because of the risk associated with spin up/down and heat, it is nearly useless as a brawling weapon. If used with MRM's as a coup de grais weapon, it is absolutely devastating.

Just my $.02 worth.
Regards,
Splat

[davoodoo]

ive seen ppl running them on kgc, but its just a waste of 100 tonner.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cb0280a6af7d7e3
run this instead.

[Weeny Machine]

The weapon is crap. Why?

The DPS is too low for a weapon with spin up (which isn't that bad) but long facetime. Carrying 2 RAC5s builds up quite some heat as well.

Similar problems have the HMGs. The facetime is problematic for both weapon systems

[Splatkitty]

davoodoo, on 19 July 2017 - 03:58 AM, said:

ive seen ppl running them on kgc, but its just a waste of 100 tonner.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cb0280a6af7d7e3
run this instead.

Interesting looking build, I'll give that one a try.