71 replies to this topic

[davoodoo]

Khobai, on 19 July 2017 - 02:49 PM, said:

The issue isnt tonnage its hardpoints. With 4 hardpoints, you can take x4 ATM9s and do 108 damage. But x4 SRM6s only do 48 damage. No clan mech has enough hardpoints to let you take enough CSRMs to do the same damage as boated ATMs. Combine that with all the other advantages of ATMs like being able to lockon and being useful at longer ranges and theres just no reason to ever use CSRMs again.

Same with mrms, your point??

I can put 4x mrm30 for 120 dmg on lets say mauler and no is mech have enough hardpoints to carry same amount of srm. not even 7 missiles cyclops which can carry at best 96.6dmg worth of srms while archer with 9 missile hardpoints have no tonnage.

Edited by davoodoo, 19 July 2017 - 03:14 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 19 July 2017 - 03:10 PM, said:

I imagine HAG would be like Gauss CUAC that fired cluster rounds. It would fire in bursts but each burst would be like an LBX cluster lol.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 July 2017 - 03:09 PM, said:

Would HAGs be like a Gauss LBX or a Gauss Rotary AC? That's something that hasn't been clear to me.

Khobai, on 19 July 2017 - 03:10 PM, said:

MRMs dont make ISSRM obsolete for reasons ive already elucidated on.



I imagine HAG would be like Gauss CUAC that fired cluster rounds. It would fire in bursts but each burst would be like an LBX cluster lol.

From what I understand a clan HAG would be like a Gauss rotary flak cannon, so basically a fast firing LBX canon. They are meant to spread damage in bursts instead of solid rounds penetrating though only one part of the mech. I highly doubt they would be a meta game changer considering how Gauss is handled in MW:O (Imagine holding down the fire button for charge up, then it burst fires the flak rounds at the target I would assume).

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 19 July 2017 - 03:18 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Arnold The Governator, on 19 July 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

From what I understand a clan HAG would be like a Gauss rotary flak cannon, so basically an fast firing LBX. They are meant to spread damage in bursts instead of solid rounds penetrating though only one part of the mech.

I'm imagining Roadhog's "Whole Hog"... sounds fun.

[davoodoo]

Arnold The Governator, on 19 July 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

From what I understand a clan HAG would be like a Gauss rotary flak cannon, so basically an fast firing LBX. They are meant to spread damage in bursts instead of solid rounds penetrating though only one part of the mech.

faster than racs.

racs fire 6 shots during turn, hag fire up to 40.

What i would expect is mrm40 with spread of lbx and oh god reticle shake of hgauss.

Edited by davoodoo, 19 July 2017 - 03:22 PM.

[MischiefSC]

davoodoo, on 19 July 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

Since when is lockon an advantage below 270m??

by the same logic mrm will make issrm obsolete and ive provided numbers for that claim...
csrm have 1.55times higher damage per ton than atms while issrm only 1.22 times higher damage per ton than mrm, therefore mrm is more likely to obslete srm than atms even if both are very unlikely to obsolete srm to begin with...

Except the ability to do damage effectively out to 500m at SRM damage, srm+50% at 120-270?

Let me put it to you like this -

Suppose IS MPLs did 6 damage at 270-500m and 3 damage to 1,000m, but 9 damage at 0-270m but hreat was raised by 1 and duration increased to 1.1, but tonnage dropped to 1.25? Who the **** wouldn't take them over IS MLs? Saying "but MLs are lighter and cooler and with less burn are more accurate at point blank" doesn't make up for a vastly more flexible and higher alpha weapon. 50% more damage at same range and 4x the functional range beats slightly better heat, weight and accuracy. Nobody would use MLs if they had any way to fit MPLs. The people saying "I take MLs because better brawling" would be getting laughed at, rightly, and crushed 99 out of 100 matches by the MPL guys because flexibility and firepower Trump a lot of minor stuff.

Quit asking for high damage in min range. It clouds the topic and just makes it seem like people not wanting a 0 damage minimum range don't understand how the game plays vs armchair theorizing with numbers that don't make sense.

We're never going to have 3 damage min range. Not even 2 damage. Not going to happen, wouldn't be balanced at all. Maybe 1 damage, or at least sub-2 damage may be reasonable.

[Lightfoot]

PGI does what they want. I think the first comment I had when Civil War was revealed was Clans get nothing but ATMs since Heavy Lasers are too hot for DHS 1.4 caps.

But PGI's ATMs are a nerf bucket, more nerf than function. Worst ever emulation for ATM's.

And the cherry on top is Clan ERPPCs being stuck with a 1500 mps speed while Inner Sphere's get turned into Gauss Rifles at 1900 mps. Probably the reason Gauss and PPCs share PPC ghost heat was to enable sniping ERPPCs for Inner Sphere.

I have been busy it's true, but I haven't even tried the new weapons. I saw enough while testing them. Just not really interested in the update. It's too one sided and input from testing it didn't help.

[davoodoo]

MischiefSC, on 19 July 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

Except the ability to do damage effectively out to 500m at SRM damage, srm+50% at 120-270?

Let me put it to you like this -

Suppose IS MPLs did 6 damage at 270-500m and 3 damage to 1,000m, but 9 damage at 0-270m but hreat was raised by 1 and duration increased to 1.1, but tonnage dropped to 1.25? Who the **** wouldn't take them over IS MLs? Saying "but MLs are lighter and cooler and with less burn are more accurate at point blank" doesn't make up for a vastly more flexible and higher alpha weapon. 50% more damage at same range and 4x the functional range beats slightly better heat, weight and accuracy. Nobody would use MLs if they had any way to fit MPLs. The people saying "I take MLs because better brawling" would be getting laughed at, rightly, and crushed 99 out of 100 matches by the MPL guys because flexibility and firepower Trump a lot of minor stuff.

Quit asking for high damage in min range. It clouds the topic and just makes it seem like people not wanting a 0 damage minimum range don't understand how the game plays vs armchair theorizing with numbers that don't make sense.

We're never going to have 3 damage min range. Not even 2 damage. Not going to happen, wouldn't be balanced at all. Maybe 1 damage, or at least sub-2 damage may be reasonable.

Like i said already, same applies to mrms...

Which do their full dmg up to their range limit which with skill tree and quirks can go up to 550m...

If clans scream is bias now, ill honestly have to agree with them for once...

Edited by davoodoo, 19 July 2017 - 03:27 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Lightfoot, on 19 July 2017 - 03:22 PM, said:

PGI does what they want. I think the first comment I had when Civil War was revealed was Clans get nothing but ATMs since Heavy Lasers are too hot for DHS 1.4 caps.

You seem to be out of date with with the game parameters..

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 19 July 2017 - 03:24 PM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

davoodoo, on 19 July 2017 - 03:16 PM, said:

faster than racs.

racs fire 6 shots during turn, hag fire up to 40.

What i would expect is mrm40 with spread of lbx.

Thanks for clarifying on that. I would expect them to be semi decent against any light mech in game, and a ballistic alternative to MRM's for the clans.

[Deltree Zero]

Khobai, on 19 July 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

You should keep playing Clans. Theres tons of stuff to look forward too like repeated nerfs, lack of options, embittered vindictive IS players, and your homeworlds being invaded.

So, I am inescapably curious: how do you complain about a lack of options from the cushy seat of a freshly manufactured Omnimech? How about clan XL for the last several years? Seemed like a pretty fancy option which wasn't available to the IS for the entirety of my MWO career. Repeated nerfs didn't seem to change the outcome of every single Tuk event. (an event which IS won in lore) Hmmm.... Maybe I am missing something...


cdn image server

Edited by Deltree Zero, 19 July 2017 - 03:25 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

We're never going to have 3 damage min range. Not even 2 damage.

2 damage with no min range would be perfectly fine.

x1 ATM9 (5 tons) = 18 damage @ 5.0 cooldown = 3.6 dps
x1 SRM6+A (5 tons) = 24 damage @ 4.0 cooldown = 6.0 dps

SRMS are doing almost twice the DPS as ATMs at short range then. Thats enough of an advantage that SRMs arnt made obsolete.

Honestly id be okay with them just making ATMs do a flat 2 damage at all ranges instead of the damage stepping down nonsense. But theyd have to be heavily buffed in some other area to be okay at 2 damage.

Edited by Khobai, 19 July 2017 - 03:34 PM.

[davoodoo]

Khobai, on 19 July 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

2 damage with no min range would be perfectly fine.

x1 ATM9 (5 tons) = 18 damage @ 5.0 cooldown = 3.6 dps
x1 SRM6+A (5 tons) = 24 damage @ 4.0 cooldown = 6.0 dps

SRMS are doing almost twice the DPS as ATMs at short range then. Thats enough of an advantage that SRMs arnt made obsolete.

Honestly id be okay with them just making ATMs do a flat 2 damage at all ranges instead of the damage stepping down nonsense.

You know that means atms are useless...

Remember than while atm12 does 36 dmg and weights 7 tons, its ammo is 90 or 7.5salvos per ton, while srm is 100 or 16.5 salvos per ton.

Edited by davoodoo, 19 July 2017 - 03:32 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

You know that means atms are useless...

They already are useless with a min range as far as Im concerned.

I think 2 damage is probably too low though.

I would still like to try ATMs with no min range, 2.4/2/1.6 damage, and missile health increased to 1.5

Edited by Khobai, 19 July 2017 - 03:33 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 19 July 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

2 damage with no min range would be perfectly fine.

I would rather they stay where they are now. The 2 damage range bracket is underwhelming, really enjoy the upside of the 3 damage range, even if it means there is a minimum range. I could see lowering the minimum range a little bit though.

[Khobai]

Quote

really enjoy the upside of the 3 damage range

yeah but its broken. theyre not going to stay at 3 damage. PGI will nerf them.

because 4 ATM12s is doing 144 damage.

[davoodoo]

No less than 3.

Srm have advantage in
1)dmg per ton. 55% higher
2)velocity. 100% higher
3)damage per heat, 25% lower
4)cooldown, 20% lower
5)facetime, infnitely shorter.

Even range doesnt matter since atms will lose dmg out of that range...

What really will be obsoleted are ssrms, but thats only because of their ridiculous cooldown.

Edited by davoodoo, 19 July 2017 - 03:39 PM.

[Khobai]

no clan mech with SRMs does 144 damage

you guys are nuts if you think ATMs are staying at 3 damage in any range bracket, with or without min range

its not happening

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 19 July 2017 - 03:38 PM, said:

yeah but its broken. theyre not going to stay at 3 damage. PGI will nerf them.

because 4 ATM12s is doing 144 damage.

Yeah but the only mechs running that are slow assaults and they are hot and don't have slots for enough DHS, and that's only good between 120-300m.. so you don't get to capitalize THAT much. And... a light can ruin your day if they sneak up on you.

Khobai, on 19 July 2017 - 03:40 PM, said:

no clan mech with SRMs does 144 damage

you guys are nuts if you think ATMs are staying at 3 damage in any range bracket, with or without min range

its not happening

Survived the PTS, unlike PPC gauss.

I will say that IF it comes down, I would say that better come with a significant reduction or removal of the minimum range.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 19 July 2017 - 03:41 PM.

[davoodoo]

Khobai, on 19 July 2017 - 03:40 PM, said:

no clan mech with SRMs does 144 damage

you guys are nuts if you think ATMs are staying at 3 damage in any range bracket, with or without min range

its not happening

No is mech with srm does 160 dmg

you guys are nuts if you think mrms are staying at 1 damage in any range bracket with or without min range

its not happening

Edited by davoodoo, 19 July 2017 - 03:42 PM.