60 replies to this topic

[BTGbullseye]

Airstrikes and arty are pretty meh IMO... I've been hit by 3 of them in sequence in my lights, and not even had it fully penetrate my armor. They're extremely situational, as they give your enemy a significant amount of time to move, and have a really obvious smoke effect to warn them. If they're really good with it, they can maybe hit you twice for 140 damage spread across all armor facings. If the location is really extremely conducive to strikes, you might be able to use an airstrike without the enemy seeing the smoke. (but the aircraft coming in on the horizon is a dead giveaway for where, when, and the direction of the strike)

[Bonzai VI]

It's a mechanic that extremely damages your mech without the need to even have enemy contact.

It's the same with head-shots in regular shooters: There's no counterplay and you (sometimes) don't see it coming.

When locusts get one-shotted while running cuz an airstrike flew by. (From 100%)
Or a Blackjack loses 16% without even seeing the enemy. From one strike. That wasn't even directed at him.
When a strike is placed to damage me, I can safely move out of the way that's no problem.
(And those were only one strike.)
It's the accidental strikes that are just moronic^^

Thats not a mechanic i would want in a game. It's just not fun for either side.

When you see the bomber it's already to late to move out of the way, or do you only play light mechs?^^
btw there's no way to see an arty coming.

Ou and: 1 hit from an arty/airstrike deals 165 dmg. And they're shooting 15 of them.

Edited by Bonzai VI, 26 July 2017 - 12:57 AM.

[BTGbullseye]

I can move out of the way in time with a MCII that moves 65kph, after seeing the bomber... I do it a lot. All this while stuck in Tier 5 'skill' rating. How did you get to Tier 1 I wonder?

The lucky shots are not stupid, they're lucky, and happen just as infrequently in real life. If you aren't paying attention to your surroundings in a light that can be 1-shot, then that's your fault, not the game mechanics. If you can't deal with a 16% loss to your armor in a Blackjack, you need more practice running that Blackjack.

[Bonzai VI]

Played 3 CW matches yesterday. We are trading (i was sitting in my nova) I see the smoke, the guy I was with also sees the smoke suddenly rising up, we simultaneously started to speak but the airstrike was already there. Then came the bomber. Funny experience even if it was annoying cuz it was a hard match^^

As I sat in my hellbringer (beginning of that match) 2 airstrikes that weren't intended for me (Boreal Vault, they were placed behind the mountain) hit me while i was repositioning and scraped ~25% without the enemy doing anything.
That's what i mean by lucky shot, a shot that wasn't meant for that person but hit them anyway.

BTW that blackjack hit? Those were around 50 dmg. (It should be around 55-60 cuz i didn't count in skill tree + quirks but pff^^) Now imagine if that shell properly hit.
And i only watched the locust run around. It was the beginning of the match he just wanted to position himself. It's just unfair for the player. I just want everyone to actually have fun when playing the game. But arty/airstrikes are no fun mechanic. Neither for the user nor for the receiver.

Tier 1 doesn't really mean much anymore since the matchmaker is no more. Only possibility of seeing a good player now if he's playing CW and you notice him^^.
Oh and being good in MWO isn't only paying attention to your surroundings, but also managing your heat, keeping track of the enemy heat so you know if you can put some pressure on them safely, keeping in mind where your enemy positions himself, where your guys position themself, predict where the enemy moves next, actually placing shots so you hit that torso you wanna hit and so forth.
There's enough to do (Especially if you're also trying to call shots).
A good player only works with information he is given more efficiently then a less experienced/bad player is.
But if there's a random arty/airstrike i don't know about, why should i be punished for that again?

If it's out of battle it's no problem. But I've got enough to look out for. I have no problem being punished for doing the wrong thing, but that's to harsh of a punishment, especially if you think of the fact that every mech can have 2 of them.

Dunno if you're okay with being stuck in tier 5 but you could look for a unit and train some time with them you do know that right?^^

Edited by Bonzai VI, 26 July 2017 - 09:50 PM.

[BTGbullseye]

I'm stuck in T5 because the only way to actually gain skill rank is to PUG... Team matches universally get put against premades, and those almost always end up getting trounced if you're not also a premade. The problem is that you drop skill rank faster than you gain it. (I've been getting 400+ score matches pretty consistently on wins, and 250+ on losses, done over 120 of them at around 50/50 W/L ratio, and barely moved that rating up any) The only downside is that T5 is filled with people that refuse to do any form of teamwork whatsoever, or people that start off communicating and teamworking before suddenly just going and doing their own thing. (getting up-paired with T3 and T2 payers is always a plus for me)

As for the air/arty... 2 per mech requires someone to waste 5 SP plus 80,000 c-bills on those things, and despite receiving those being kinda ****** in certain circumstances, I have yet to be in a match where they were the deciding factor of a battle. (or be anywhere near worthwhile to use outside of siege mode) It's always the mechs and their drivers that are the most effective weapons, and will always be more threatening than any 1-2 use strike. (especially considering the team-wide cooldown on the strikes)

Since we've both presented our arguments for and against, and have determined that we aren't changing each other's minds, how about we just agree to disagree on this subject and be friends?

[CraneArmy]

BTGbullseye, on 27 July 2017 - 11:36 PM, said:

I'm stuck in T5 because the only way to actually gain skill rank is to PUG... Team matches universally get put against premades, and those almost always end up getting trounced if you're not also a premade. The problem is that you drop skill rank faster than you gain it. (I've been getting 400+ score matches pretty consistently on wins, and 250+ on losses, done over 120 of them at around 50/50 W/L ratio, and barely moved that rating up any) The only downside is that T5 is filled with people that refuse to do any form of teamwork whatsoever, or people that start off communicating and teamworking before suddenly just going and doing their own thing. (getting up-paired with T3 and T2 payers is always a plus for me)

As for the air/arty... 2 per mech requires someone to waste 5 SP plus 80,000 c-bills on those things, and despite receiving those being kinda ****** in certain circumstances, I have yet to be in a match where they were the deciding factor of a battle. (or be anywhere near worthwhile to use outside of siege mode) It's always the mechs and their drivers that are the most effective weapons, and will always be more threatening than any 1-2 use strike. (especially considering the team-wide cooldown on the strikes)

Since we've both presented our arguments for and against, and have determined that we aren't changing each other's minds, how about we just agree to disagree on this subject and be friends?

You're not stuck in teir 5 because everyone around you is terrible, and the progression through teirs is actually very heavilly weighted towards moving you up. Made slightly harder if you are exclusively a light pilot.

I guarantee I can move you (or anyone else) out of T5 with 30-60 minutes of coaching followed by a couple months of quick plays.

[Bonzai VI]

@BTGbullseye

Allright but i got one last thing to show you

watch the strikes from 1:00 to 1:30. He did shoot some afterwards but the score @ 3:55 is the interesting part.

Spoiler

If he landed all of his alphas, he would have done 405. But he missed several lasers/gauss shots and he only did ~300 dmg.

How is that okay?

Edited by Bonzai VI, 28 July 2017 - 04:45 AM.

[BTGbullseye]

Yes, hitting groups produces an inordinately high amount of damage. I just figure that as being the price you pay for being in a deathball if you're not paying attention to your surroundings. (and yes, those airstrikes came in REALLY fast, they usually take 3 seconds to hit on my matches, which is plenty of dodge time)

The cooldown in that video is a little fast, (should be 15 sec, not 7) but apart from that and the mucho rapido hit time compared to my experience, still haven't change my mind about strikes.

Edited by BTGbullseye, 28 July 2017 - 02:19 PM.

[BTGbullseye]

This just in... Looks like IS has either won, or tied every single FP combat period since the CW patch. Seems they have as much need of a nerf as the Clans did back when they were always winning.

[Roland09]

BTGbullseye, on 28 July 2017 - 11:45 PM, said:

This just in... Looks like IS has either won, or tied every single FP combat period since the CW patch. Seems they have as much need of a nerf as the Clans did back when they were always winning.

Guess what, the upcoming tonnage reduction is not sufficient for you. Now who would have guessed?

Honest question: At which point would you feel balance was reached? When you win 80% of your matches, because of THE LORE, or when you win 75% of your matches?

[BTGbullseye]

I never said it needed more than what they are planning on doing, (apart from fixing the RAC5 to not be the highest DPS weapon in the game by a large margin, and the ATMs to have a lot more health per missile and no hard minimum range) just that it was that badly needed. Don't try to read between the lines, there's no text there. I stand by what I said.

Edited by BTGbullseye, 29 July 2017 - 08:57 PM.

[Bonzai VI]

@Roland09

I can't seem to find the passage where i see that he even knows about the tonnage reduction^^
How about you stop flaming people that had no ill will towards you?

BTGbullseye, on 28 July 2017 - 11:45 PM, said:

This just in... Looks like IS has either won, or tied every single FP combat period since the CW patch. Seems they have as much need of a nerf as the Clans did back when they were always winning.

Well i read it as, Clan needs 265 tons and IS 240 tons
IS needs the same nerf as clans right?^^ Kappa

Wait, you're complaining that RACs have the highest dps? But that's what they are for. You have spread, facetime, heat, tonnage, slots and ghostheat to fight with.

It's not a great weapon after having it's dmg buffed in the pts and you wanna nerf it again?
Doesn't sound like the best idea^^


But yeah, ATMs really need that health buff. AMS is to hard of a counter right now.

[BTGbullseye]

Bonzai VI, on 29 July 2017 - 10:08 PM, said:

It's not a great weapon after having it's dmg buffed in the pts and you wanna nerf it again?
Doesn't sound like the best idea^^

Was it buffed to bore out a full-health CT on a MCII with 90 armor in less than 3 seconds with only 2 RAC5's? (I confirmed that this is happening in the game, right now, came in at just over 2.9 seconds to do it) If not, then the RAC5's are doing a LOT too much DPS without excessive facetime.

Edited by BTGbullseye, 29 July 2017 - 10:14 PM.

[Bonzai VI]

It doesn't... You probably got shot by something else also.

Did you try it in a lobby? Cuz i tried RACs and they do no where near that dmg.

Did some ammo explode? That is also a possibility.

[BTGbullseye]

No ammo in CT. Ever.

Yes, I've tried it in private, and it happens every time. I even made a thread about it back when I was only testing in QP. https://mwomercs.com...ps-than-listed/

Also, no, I was not damaged by anything else. The only mech that even saw me was the one that had 2x RAC5's and nothing else, then killed me in under 3 sec. (that was day 1 of the CW patch)

Edited by BTGbullseye, 30 July 2017 - 12:14 AM.

[CraneArmy]

BTGbullseye, on 29 July 2017 - 08:55 PM, said:

I never said it needed more than what they are planning on doing, (apart from fixing the RAC5 to not be the highest DPS weapon in the game by a large margin,

they dont, mrm40's have higher dps by almost double, and the dps/ton is beaten by many weapons not the least of which is the LB-X2 AC, which also beats it on heat, range, etc....

BTGbullseye, on 29 July 2017 - 08:55 PM, said:

ATMs to have a lot more health per missile and no hard minimum range) just that it was that badly needed. Don't try to read between the lines, there's no text there. I stand by what I said.

ATM's having more health per missle seems reasonable, they get hit pretty bad by ams, even at short range or in large salvos. But they arnt that bad. I dropped my first ever 1.1k quickplay with a Maddog using ATM 3's and 6's this week. They're pretty strong.

ATM12's being another weapon that has nearly 50% more dps than the RAC5 and which you can also chainfire.

[Bonzai VI]

@BTGbullseye

So i just tried it in my Highlander-IIC. The other one was a Marauder with 2 RAC5s.

I've got 119 armor and 93 structure in my center torso. After ~7-7.5 seconds of continous fire (neither RAC jammed) I had 21-22 structure left. So he dealt 189 dmg. The dmg is amplified by some massive critting on his side.

My Highlander has two UAC10s, two Lrg-pulse + one med-laser and one ATM 9.
If only counting my UAC10s and my lasers in i can deal in ~7 seconds i deal 222 dmg (without the ATM) half a second later the lasers are up again to deal 253 dmg.

If you take just the 2 UAC10s it's a dmg of 160 but far more precise, weighs the same and you actually have enough heat to shoot some other stuff with it. RACs atm can only really be taken as a primary weapon because of their massive heat.

BTW nobody will acknowledge tests you did in QP.

[BTGbullseye]

And yet, it happened... Either it's a bug that only occurs in QP, or it's only something that happens against the MCII.

Also, someone already ran the numbers for mathematical DPS, with and without skills, with and without jamming, and the RAC5's beat UAC10 by about 1DPS in each category. (still under 5DPS for the weapon)

Edited by BTGbullseye, 30 July 2017 - 03:16 PM.

[Ragnahawk]

Still going in mechspecs.com if you wanna continue, or can continue here. Up to you guys.

[The Basilisk]

BTGbullseye, on 27 July 2017 - 11:36 PM, said:

I'm stuck in T5 because the only way to actually gain skill rank is to PUG... Team matches universally get put against premades, and those almost always end up getting trounced if you're not also a premade. The problem is that you drop skill rank faster than you gain it. (I've been getting 400+ score matches pretty consistently on wins, and 250+ on losses, done over 120 of them at around 50/50 W/L ratio, and barely moved that rating up any) The only downside is that T5 is filled with people that refuse to do any form of teamwork whatsoever, or people that start off communicating and teamworking before suddenly just going and doing their own thing. (getting up-paired with T3 and T2 payers is always a plus for me)

As for the air/arty... 2 per mech requires someone to waste 5 SP plus 80,000 c-bills on those things, and despite receiving those being kinda ****** in certain circumstances, I have yet to be in a match where they were the deciding factor of a battle. (or be anywhere near worthwhile to use outside of siege mode) It's always the mechs and their drivers that are the most effective weapons, and will always be more threatening than any 1-2 use strike. (especially considering the team-wide cooldown on the strikes)

Since we've both presented our arguments for and against, and have determined that we aren't changing each other's minds, how about we just agree to disagree on this subject and be friends?

If you get a consistent pattern here, good ratings on winns and bad ones on loose that means you are one of the reasons your team lost.
Absolutely no irony or insult intended here.
Thats basicaly how the system works.
If you are able to achieve stuff that boosts your matchscore regardless of your team winning or loosing you are somebody that constistantly does well.

While the system is pretty far from perfect it rewards you with stuff done right like staying near your assaults and heavys as a light or med not running around like crazy, it rewards you fro bringing AMS, providing ECM cover for your team, penetrate enemy ECM with UAVS, TAGs and NARC and a lot of other stuff you can do for your team.

The heavier your mech the more you are dependent on damage, kills and assists you're doing since there are less things you get rewarded for by just staying tight and providing suplemental support.

That also means you have to put out reliable damage and kills. Or to be more precise, you need to be independent of your team for doing your dmg, kmdds, assists and Kills. So long burntimes that require the team to distract the enemy from you so you can do your dmg will likely cause you to perform inconsistantly, dependign on the performance of your whole team.
LRMs or indirectly fired ATMs are a further reason for inconsistant performance.
Situational loadouts are another.

You see where this goes?
Some get out of T5 in only a couple of matches. A hint your matchscore is a good indicator for you PSR wich is counting towards your tier but it is not your PSR. (PSR= Player Skill Rating /= Matchscore)
To get out of an Tier you do not need to consistantly outperform all others, rather you have to reframe from severely underperforming in lost matches.

See, on a won match you can not loose PSR.
In a lost match it is hard to win PSR but not so hard to loose only a little or nothing.
Here are two litte guides on PSR.
Some Clarification About Tiers And Psr

The Player Skill Rating (Psr) System Explained...

As you will see winning PSR can depend a lot on luck since you can not influence the team and enemy you get -> winning a match. What solely lies within your own hands is not to loose much PSR and in the end this is what gets you up quickly.

Edited by The Basilisk, 03 August 2017 - 04:37 AM.