91 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Garfuncle, on 21 July 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

The UACs give too much face time, and are burst fire so yuck. I prefer clicking once to fire everything with no ghost heat, with similar velocities, and same CDs. Then I can twist away to roll damage and then return fire at 4 seconds.

Oh. Okay.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Dual LBX/20 exists for one reason... to let your quad LBX10 Mauler have backup weapons with the saved tonnage. That's it...


:-p

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Prosperity Park, on 21 July 2017 - 05:58 PM, said:

Dual LBX/20 exists for one reason... to let your quad LBX10 Mauler have backup weapons with the saved tonnage. That's it...


:-p

Pretty much.

Annihilator and Mauler are the only ones that it's viable for because they have such low engine caps and ballistic hardpoints in both torsos.

On everything else, the advantage of LFE far outweighs the advantage of LB20X. Would you rather have a GH cap of two in the boomhammer, or go 70kph?

On mechs with single torso ballistics, there simply aren't major advantages to speak of. It just sucks in all situations.

[davoodoo]

Im still puzzled when someone says advantage of lb20x.

What advantage do you speak off??

[El Bandito]

Yeonne Greene, on 21 July 2017 - 05:47 PM, said:

Oh. Okay.

^ This. Why would you EVER pick IS LB20X, when there is a perfectly fine PPFLD IS AC20 available, with LFE compatibility?

[davoodoo]

El Bandito, on 21 July 2017 - 11:33 PM, said:

^ This. Why would you EVER pick IS LB20X, when there is a perfectly fine PPFLD IS AC20 available, with LFE compatibility?

Because ghost heat, same reason i dont run dual ac20 kgc.

But now throw uac10 instead and you have basically my kgc build except i put 325 in there.
Double range and still 40 dmg after 2 taps.

Edited by davoodoo, 21 July 2017 - 11:40 PM.

[BrunoSSace]

Its true the weapon needs to be 10 slots for reasons. I hope for a buff

[LordNothing]

Karl the Plumber, on 21 July 2017 - 11:38 AM, said:

LB20 works on a mauler, too. This isn't optimized, but it works as an ambusher.

Also, I wish we could all get away from these threads where someone says a weapon doesn't work, but doesn't give any consideration to the rationale for choosing the weapon in the first place. Does the LB family work in general for PPFLD or opening round trading? No. It wasn't ever supposed to.

Sure, the maps, the play styles, and the mechanics of MWO make certain weapons more useful in general, but sometimes it's a lot of fun to make a specialist build using a specialist weapon like the LB20.

does it work better than 4 lb10s?

[El Bandito]

davoodoo, on 21 July 2017 - 11:35 PM, said:

Because ghost heat, same reason i dont run dual ac20 kgc.

But now throw uac10 instead and you have basically my kgc build except i put 325 in there.
Double range and still 40 dmg after 2 taps.

Ever since I could field 2xCoolshots, dual AC20 doesn't bother me as much.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

davoodoo, on 21 July 2017 - 11:31 PM, said:

Im still puzzled when someone says advantage of lb20x.

What advantage do you speak off??

Aside from heat efficiency, ghost heat and crit-seeking, 1330 m/s vs. 650 m/s is worth noting but not even close to justifying the cost, obviously.

Yeonne Greene, on 21 July 2017 - 05:47 PM, said:

Oh. Okay.

Would run crazy hot even without taking ghost heat into account. I did like 150 dmg of sustained fire against the Tourmaline Atlas chain firing the AC20s.

I didn't even like how hot twin LB20X + twin snub was- I've been using with LB20X with quad MPL.

[Y E O N N E]

Aggravated Assault Mech, on 22 July 2017 - 12:53 AM, said:

Aside from heat efficiency, ghost heat and crit-seeking, 1330 m/s vs. 650 m/s is worth noting but not even close to justifying the cost, obviously.




Would run crazy hot even without taking ghost heat into account. I did like 150 dmg of sustained fire against the Tourmaline Atlas chain firing the AC20s.

I didn't even like how hot twin LB20X + twin snub was- I've been using with LB20X with quad MPL.

I mean, yeah it would, but so would the OP's original build.

Though that's also something of a bit of irony; firing 2x SN-PPC + 1x AC/20 and then following it up with the other 20 is still more generally effective than alpha-striking with 2x LB-20X and 2x SN-PPC.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 July 2017 - 06:14 AM, said:

I mean, yeah it would, but so would the OP's original build.

Though that's also something of a bit of irony; firing 2x SN-PPC + 1x AC/20 and then following it up with the other 20 is still more generally effective than alpha-striking with 2x LB-20X and 2x SN-PPC.

It's definitely better than the build I posted but "wah ghost heat is scary!"

[davoodoo]

Aggravated Assault Mech, on 22 July 2017 - 12:53 AM, said:

Aside from heat efficiency, ghost heat and crit-seeking, 1330 m/s vs. 650 m/s is worth noting but not even close to justifying the cost, obviously.

all negated by spread damage which makes it at best 10+5+5 weapon which makes it competition to ac10

which got lower cooldown, double range and lower tonnage/cirts, velocity is still lower but that hardly matters at 270m on which lb20x operates.

[Messiah Complex]

LB 20 is good on the IS marauder, and 2 of them shoved into a Warhammer is a lot of fun.

[davoodoo]

Messiah Complex, on 22 July 2017 - 09:42 AM, said:

LB 20 is good on the IS marauder

Now you got me really baffled, you cant even rely on ghost heat to kill ac20 here

So for the spread and 1 less heat you forgo ppfld.

[Messiah Complex]

its for the range and the crits. You put 4 medium lasers on it full armor, and a 300 engine and you can tank tons of damage and smash most mechs that get in your way.

Edited by Messiah Complex, 22 July 2017 - 09:48 AM.

[davoodoo]

Messiah Complex, on 22 July 2017 - 09:48 AM, said:

its for the range and the crits. You put 4 medium lasers on it full armor, and a 300 engine and you can tank tons of damage and smash most mechs that get in your way.

What range, its lb20x if you try to fire above 150m youll get missed pellets, if i really wanted range i would pack uac10...

You can do exactly same thing with ac20 instead... oh and theres bounty hunter which can do the same with 6 mlas and ac20 and both of them can fit uac10 if you really want to.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cfb36d96560acf9
ac20

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...38c07222fc9f760
uac10

Edited by davoodoo, 22 July 2017 - 09:58 AM.

[Messiah Complex]

you will run rather hot with 6 mediums and the ac 20 has low range, low velocity and lacks the ability to crit multiple times. Used to run the Marauder with dual LB10 previously very sucessfully and now the 20 opens up tonnage keeping it from having more heatsinks.

[davoodoo]

Messiah Complex, on 22 July 2017 - 09:57 AM, said:

you will run rather hot with 6 mediums and the ac 20 has low range, low velocity and lacks the ability to crit multiple times. Used to run the Marauder with dual LB10 previously very sucessfully and now the 20 opens up tonnage keeping it from having more heatsinks.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cfb36d96560acf9
38%

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e938d349f795601
44%

cool as breeze

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...38c07222fc9f760
39%, though it will be closer to 36% on doubletap

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e938d349f795601
44%, estimated 40% on doubletap.

Again cool as breeze.

I also ran marauder with 2 lb10x, not the best build(2 uac5 was miles better), but it still had 4 meds, std 300 and it was ridiculously hard to overheat...
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6b6c5cc46933dd3
idk what kind of magic you need to use to overheat this...

Edited by davoodoo, 22 July 2017 - 10:06 AM.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

davoodoo, on 22 July 2017 - 07:33 AM, said:

all negated by spread damage which makes it at best 10+5+5 weapon which makes it competition to ac10

which got lower cooldown, double range and lower tonnage/cirts, velocity is still lower but that hardly matters at 270m on which lb20x operates.

Comparing it to an AC10 is a bit of a stretch. LB20X is going to be hitting single components within 100m, and deals significantly more damage to unarmored components (should deal ~26 dmg on average vs. unarmored components if we extrapolate from LB10X). LB20X also has higher DPS per ton, and the shorter cooldown of AC10 actually works against it as a brawler since twisting off damage will drop your DPS more significantly.

If AC20 and LB20X had the same fitting, the advantages of LB20X would bring it forward in many situations. It is just outright better at swatting lights and shredding damaged mechs later into the game, for instance. Twin LB20X also has much better quality of life with lower heat and no ghost heat penalty. Even if easier fitting wouldn't make it a top-tier weapon choice vs. PPFLD, taking it would still be pretty reasonable.

Fitting is the primary barrier to its viability right now. Only the Annihilator can reasonably take it thanks to very low engine cap and ballistic hardpoints in each torso. Even even most Maulers would be sacrificing top speed. It's just straight up not viable on anything else.

Edited by Aggravated Assault Mech, 22 July 2017 - 11:14 AM.