91 replies to this topic

[Grus]

El Bandito, on 28 June 2018 - 08:45 AM, said:

I dunno which is more pathetic--Your attempt at justifying such minor spread difference can compensate for all the benefits CLBX20 enjoys, or your misinformation on the actual spread properties between the two LBX20s.


Clan LBX20 spreads all over a mech at 100 meters? Lets check it out.

Here is Clan LBX20 at 100 meters vs. IS LBX at 100 meters. Pay attention to the paper doll. No difference.






Maybe at 200 meters the difference would be obvious? On a smaller mech? Nope, no difference.

Jesus dude are you on nights?

As for the difference in spread it is there. Trying to correlate what training room, vs live fire, is a stretch... you should know this. As for "all the benifits" there isn't many. It's like "all the benefits" clan lasers have over IS... But barely much more damage per tic..

Aside from even all that there are a few IS mech that have 2 ballistic per location.. So why not do 2 lbx10's for faster rate of fire?

My founders atlas is 1...

[El Bandito]

Grus, on 28 June 2018 - 09:05 AM, said:

Jesus dude are you on nights?
As for the difference in spread it is there. Trying to correlate what training room, vs live fire, is a stretch... you should know this.

If there is a difference, it is not significant in the range where the weapon shines, as proven by the SS. When it comes to spread, testing grounds is actually pretty reliable.

Grus, on 28 June 2018 - 09:05 AM, said:

As for "all the benifits" there isn't many. It's like "all the benefits" clan lasers have over IS... But barely much more damage per tic..

Are you serious? The fact CLBX20 weighs full 2 tons less and occupies 2 slots less compared to IS LBX20 is BIG. You are restricted to Std engine with IS LBX20, while Clan LBX20 can be easily mounted on XL engine. The Clan mech will have huge tonnage saving compared to IS one. Unlike IS lasers, where they have clear duration and heat advantage for being shorter ranged and less damaging, IS LBX20 does not have such clear advantage over Clan LBX20, to justify its weight/slots. As I said, the spread is too similar at distance where the weapon is most effective.

Grus, on 28 June 2018 - 09:05 AM, said:

Aside from even all that there are a few IS mech that have 2 ballistic per location.. So why not do 2 lbx10's for faster rate of fire?

My founders atlas is 1...

Cause it's the same ****--Clan LBX10 is just flat out superior than IS LBX10. You wanna mount two IS LBX10s on a single ST? Then you gotta use Std engine. Meanwhile Clan mech can equip two LBX10s on single ST with Clan XL engine. Again, huge tonnage saved.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 June 2018 - 10:12 AM.

[Requiemking]

Antares102, on 21 July 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

The burst time of UAC10 is 0.33 sec for a double tap.
If this was an issue no laser vomit would have ever worked.

Laservomit is Hitscan. UACs are not. Thats the difference. The velocity of ACs in general isn't great to begin with, plus I've noticed that HRS tends to get weird when you have multiple projectiles striking the same exact spot in rapid succession.

Edited by Requiemking, 28 June 2018 - 10:41 AM.

[Grus]

El Bandito, on 28 June 2018 - 09:51 AM, said:

If there is a difference, it is not significant in the range where the weapon shines, as proven by the SS. When it comes to spread, testing grounds is actually pretty reliable.



Are you serious? The fact CLBX20 weighs full 2 tons less and occupies 2 slots less compared to IS LBX20 is BIG. You are restricted to slow *** Std engine with IS LBX20, while Clan LBX20 can be easily mounted on XL engine! The Clan mech will have huge tonnage saving compared to IS one. Unlike IS lasers, where they have clear duration and heat advantage for being shorter ranged and less damaging, IS LBX20 does not have such clear advantage over Clan LBX20. As I said, the spread is too similar at distance where the weapon is most effective.




Cause Its the same ****--Clan LBX10 is just flat out superior than IS LBX10. You wanna mount two IS LBX10s on a single ST? Then you gotta use Std engine. Meanwhile Clan mech can equip two LBX10s on single ST with Clan XL engine. Again, huge tonnage saved.

tonnage saved really dosnt help on the mech's that do have the configurations you addressed. 2 tonnes? Big woop that dosnt mean I'm going really and faster to be significant, let alone more agile. Especially in clan assaults.

[Spheroid]

The XML tables reveal no I.S. spread advantage. The numbers don't lie. We don't have to guess, spread is a concrete known quantity. The weapon is worse in all ways save velocity.

Weapon stat location = C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\MechWarrior Online\Game\GameData.pak\Libs\Items\Weapons\



<Weapon faction="Clan" HardpointAliases="Ballistic,LargeWeapon,LBXAutoCannon,LBXAutoCannon20,ClanLBXAutoCannon,ClanLBXAutoCannon20" name="ClanLBXAutoCannon20" id="1203"><Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\ClanLB20XAutoCannon.dds" descTag="@ClanLB20-XAC_desc" nameTag="@ClanLB20-XAC"/><WeaponStats maxDepth="10.0" gravity="0,0,-9.8" volleydelay="0" speed="1100" lifetime="10.0" duration="0.0" tons="12" ammoPerShot="1" ammoType="ClanLB20-XACAmmo" cooldown="4" heat="6.0" impulse="0.04" heatdamage="0" damage="1" numFiring="1" projectileclass="bullet" type="Ballistic" slots="9" Health="16.5" critDamMult="2.0" spread="1.0" critChanceIncrease="0.14,0.08,0.03" numPerShot="20"/>

　

Weapon faction="InnerSphere" HardpointAliases="Ballistic,LargeWeapon,LBXAutoCannon,LBXAutoCannon20,ISLBXAutoCannon,ISLBXAutoCannon20" name="LBXAutoCannon20" id="1052"><Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\LB20XAutoCannon.dds" descTag="@LB20-XAC_desc" nameTag="@LB20-XAC"/><WeaponStats maxDepth="10.0" gravity="0,0,-9.8" volleydelay="0" speed="1330" lifetime="10.0" duration="0.0" tons="14" ammoPerShot="1" ammoType="LB20-XACAmmo" cooldown="4.0" heat="5.0" impulse="0.04" heatdamage="0" damage="1" numFiring="1" projectileclass="bullet" type="Ballistic" slots="11" Health="25" critDamMult="2.0" spread="1.0" critChanceIncrease="0.14,0.08,0.03" numPerShot="20"/>

[El Bandito]

Grus, on 28 June 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

tonnage saved really dosnt help on the mech's that do have the configurations you addressed. 2 tonnes? Big woop that dosnt mean I'm going really and faster to be significant, let alone more agile. Especially in clan assaults.

Have you learned nothing? IS LBX20 forces Std engine, while Clan LBX20 can be used with Clan XL engine. At 300 engine rating, that's already 9.5 tons saved, in addition to the 2 tons CLBX20 itself saves! With total 11.5 tons saved, you can basically either add another CLBX20, or increase the Clan mech's engine rating up to 375! There is big difference in speed between 300 and 375 engine.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 June 2018 - 11:04 AM.

[Chortles]

Grus, on 28 June 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

tonnage saved really dosnt help on the mech's that do have the configurations you addressed. 2 tonnes? Big woop that dosnt mean I'm going really and faster to be significant, let alone more agile. Especially in clan assaults.

Are you serious? Did you just say weight savings doesn't help? You do know that a Scorch can mount just as much weapons as an Annihilator while being 15 tons lighter, right? If mix tech was introduced, would you use Clan LBX20 or IS LBX20?

[N a p e s]

Spheroid, on 28 June 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:

The XML tables reveal no I.S. spread advantage. The numbers don't lie. We don't have to guess, spread is a concrete known quantity. The weapon is worse in all ways save velocity.

Hold your horses there Spheroid, the numbres don't lie and the IS gets a whole 8.5 extra hit points... That is very significant and explains why they can't buff other aspects of the Is version.

*sarcasm*

[Scout Derek]

El Bandito, on 28 June 2018 - 10:56 AM, said:

Have you learned nothing? IS LBX20 forces Std engine, while Clan LBX20 can be used with Clan XL engine. At 300 engine rating, that's already 9.5 tons saved, in addition to the 2 tons CLBX20 itself saves! With total 11.5 tons saved, you can basically either add another CLBX20, or increase the Clan mech's engine rating up to 375! There is big difference in speed between 300 and 375 engine.

Chortles, on 28 June 2018 - 10:56 AM, said:

Are you serious? Did you just say weight savings doesn't help? You do know that a Scorch can mount just as much weapons as an Annihilator while being 15 tons lighter, right? If mix tech was introduced, would you use Clan LBX20 or IS LBX20?

Fellas I hate to break it to you but what we have here is a lost cause. Better cut the losses and let him talk to himself instead of falling into the mediocre opinion that the person has.

[Y E O N N E]

N a p e s, on 28 June 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

Hold your horses there Spheroid, the numbres don't lie and the IS gets a whole 8.5 extra hit points... That is very significant and explains why they can't buff other aspects of the Is version.

*sarcasm*

The triple max range, bro!

[Grus]

El Bandito, on 28 June 2018 - 10:56 AM, said:

Have you learned nothing? IS LBX20 forces Std engine, while Clan LBX20 can be used with Clan XL engine. At 300 engine rating, that's already 9.5 tons saved, in addition to the 2 tons CLBX20 itself saves! With total 11.5 tons saved, you can basically either add another CLBX20, or increase the Clan mech's engine rating up to 375! There is big difference in speed between 300 and 375 engine.

then don't bring a lbx20 #shrugemoji i should be able to switch my engines in my omni mech too but hey... that argument makes about as much sence as "ug.. my shot gun too big" it is what it is. If IS lbx20 gets smaller than the clans version WITCH IS AN IMPROVEMENT should as well.

Speed and agility of that kind of upgrade for a clan assault is laughably small.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Grus, on 28 June 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

If IS lbx20 gets smaller than the clans version WITCH IS AN IMPROVEMENT should as well.

Ah, that lame duck? "Clan should be better, because [reasons]" ?

AKA

Error 404. Argument not found. Please try again.

[Grus]

Chortles, on 28 June 2018 - 10:56 AM, said:

Are you serious? Did you just say weight savings doesn't help? You do know that a Scorch can mount just as much weapons as an Annihilator while being 15 tons lighter, right? If mix tech was introduced, would you use Clan LBX20 or IS LBX20?

2 tonne for the gun isn't that much. And you do realise the AHN has WAY more HP than a marader right?

And 15 more tonns..

Jay Leon Hart, on 28 June 2018 - 03:08 PM, said:

Ah, that lame duck? &quot;Clan should be better, because [reasons]&quot; ?

AKA

Error 404. Argument not found. Please try again.

Not a lame duck at all if you've read the lore/history.

[Grus]

So Jay I'd say.. go read some books.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Grus, on 28 June 2018 - 03:47 PM, said:

Not a lame duck at all if you've read the lore/history.

You mean the one that ended up with MixTech and everyone at the same level of power after they nuked the galaxy? That lore? Sure, bring some balance this way!

Grus, on 28 June 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

So Jay I'd say.. go read some books.

To you I say, go play TT if you want OP Clan tech or read those books if you care about "the lore" so much.

[Humpday]

I put Dual LBX20 in my FAF-5B + 5 MPLs.
Its solid, can get pretty hot very quickly though, but it got me to avg 3k/d in 100+ games.

The slot limitation is a bit annoying though. I'd be nice to be able to have it fit in an arm somewhere.
I mean, my Stormcrow is currently fitted with a LBX20 in one if its arms, and that s friggin 55 tonner.

IS lbx20 vs Clan, I'd take the IS LBX20 anyday. I feel like something isn't right with the Clan lbx20. It doesn't seem to lay down the hurt as effectively as the IS version does. I dunno, maybe my imagination.

[Humpday]

Steve Pryde, on 22 July 2017 - 11:35 AM, said:

So long IS lbx20 and heavy gauss need 11 crit slots they're useless.

ummm wut?

Fanirs, Annihilators, Slepnirs, Maulers, Atlas-K, Banshee-3S, MAH-BH disagree...11 crits isn't game breaking, annoying yes, useless, far from it.

Edited by Humpday, 28 June 2018 - 04:28 PM.

[LordNothing]

works out well on the boom hammer as well, especially in solaris where speed doesnt matter much.

[Chortles]

Grus, on 28 June 2018 - 03:47 PM, said:

2 tonne for the gun isn't that much. And you do realise the AHN has WAY more HP than a marader right?

And 15 more tonns..

That's 2 tons per gun, 4 total. Then there's not being able to use an LFE, which is 4.5 tons difference from standard 300. IS mechs have a lack of critical slots because most of their equipment costs more than clans. That means you might have to sacrifice endosteel, a potential 5 ton gone.

Annihilators being able to support 15 more tons is pointless when all of it is wasted on the Inner Sphere Tax. Clans have their own 100-tonners that puts the Annihilator's amount of weaponry to shame.

[Lykaon]

Snazzy Dragon, on 21 July 2017 - 09:20 AM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...10299fd836cd3c2

wow, look at that

same thing, only significantly better

is LB20 is bad

I would opt for 2 snubs an AC10 and an AC20 for 50 pinpoint damage and no jamming.