1809 replies to this topic

[guardiandashi]

Horseman, on 28 April 2018 - 01:25 AM, said:

PGI brought that one up as an argument that Harmony Gold doesn't have the rights.
Harmony Gold is arguing that this detail only relates to their license for DYRL, while their license to the original Macross does include video game rights.

DOC DUMP
Contains all documents available on Internet Archive or previously posted (if I missed something that was shared, do let me know)

with their claim that the original macross rights including the video game rights may actually be correct, it still doesn't correct the big flaw in their arguments, to whit, they do NOT own the rights to the 41 characters, those are the exclusive property of big west, whats even more amusing to me, (and I suspect others) is that more than 1 of the documents they have posted pretty much acknowledge and state that they DO NOT own the 41 characters, such as the letter from big west DEMANDING HG take action against the south american project because it infringes upon HG's "movie rights" and big wests VF-veritech character rights, in another document HG specifically says they acknowledge big west's rights and will try to avoid infringing upon them.

I personally start laughing every time HG submits documents that they claim supports their position, but when I read it, it actually says otherwise.

[Valdarion Silarius]

guardiandashi, on 28 April 2018 - 10:07 AM, said:

I personally start laughing every time HG submits documents that they claim supports their position, but when I read it, it actually says otherwise.

I think they are still trying to claim that they got their rights from Tatsunoko from the most recent documents. So basically they sound like a broken record by reinstating that their property was granted from Tatsunoko, which as we all know still doesn't own the 41 characters from Big West. Feel free to continue to laugh at them because it's clear that HG is wasting everyones time here.

[Koniving]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 April 2018 - 05:49 PM, said:

Please prove all of this or try harder, because I've never seen one shot from the Battletech team with any unseen, and I backed it on Kickstarter ASAP... Also if you reference back to HG's original court documents for bringing HBS to court, the images used, were not at all any reprisentation of any of the Macross unseen, in fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they actually tired to use the ATLAS as one of the battlemechs they considerd as "infringing."

So no, they didn't "Reach an agreement." no agreement was made, the suit, was dismissed with predjuice... that's a BAD THING FOR HG, and A GOOD THING FOR US.

No agreements exist that I know of, but I wanted to point something out.
HBS had a Marauder in one of their early videos showing off the mechs. I remember it quite vividly because I was so excited when I saw one team using a mech I fell in love with from the SNES Mechwarrior 3050 cutscene and seeing the Marauder's AC/5 with a proper AC firing multiple shots.
This did not come out with the beta, though, nor is it in the current game.
As soon as the lawsuit hit, full of **** as it was, the Marauder was pulled from the game and that video so far as I can tell is deleted.

A fan video using a Marauder under the name Battletech got a cease and desist order from Catalyst parent company Topps for its fan '3D cartoon' series, and was reuploaded as a MWO fan trailer instead to save the hard work done, specifically because of the lawsuit and associating the PGI model with Catalyst/Harebrained.

Other fan shows, so long as they weren't asking for funding (sorry about Revival; I love and want to see it but asking for money to help fund how ambitious the series would be kinda got it shut down) are often ignored. But this was the first to bring a Marauder into the video, and during the lawsuit, and slapping "Battletech" on the title and credits. So this would be 3D BT anime series got shut down, deleted, and was salvaged with a bit of help from PGI as a MWO fan trailer.)

Edited by Koniving, 28 April 2018 - 10:29 AM.

[DFM]

Horseman, on 28 April 2018 - 01:25 AM, said:

PGI brought that one up as an argument that Harmony Gold doesn't have the rights.
Harmony Gold is arguing that this detail only relates to their license for DYRL, while their license to the original Macross does include video game rights.

DOC DUMP
Contains all documents available on Internet Archive or previously posted (if I missed something that was shared, do let me know)

thanks a ton horseman.

having these in something other than pictures in my phone on facebook makes it alot easier to read and go back and forth.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Koniving, on 28 April 2018 - 10:24 AM, said:

No agreements exist that I know of, but I wanted to point something out.
HBS had a Marauder in one of their early videos showing off the mechs. I remember it quite vividly because I was so excited when I saw one team using a mech I fell in love with from the SNES Mechwarrior 3050 cutscene and seeing the Marauder's AC/5 with a proper AC firing multiple shots.
This did not come out with the beta, though, nor is it in the current game.
As soon as the lawsuit hit, full of **** as it was, the Marauder was pulled from the game and that video so far as I can tell is deleted.

A fan video using a Marauder under the name Battletech got a cease and desist order from Catalyst parent company Topps for its fan '3D cartoon' series, and was reuploaded as a MWO fan trailer instead to save the hard work done, specifically because of the lawsuit and associating the PGI model with Catalyst/Harebrained.

Other fan shows, so long as they weren't asking for funding (sorry about Revival; I love and want to see it but asking for money to help fund how ambitious the series would be kinda got it shut down) are often ignored. But this was the first to bring a Marauder into the video, and during the lawsuit, and slapping "Battletech" on the title and credits. So this would be 3D BT anime series got shut down, deleted, and was salvaged with a bit of help from PGI as a MWO fan trailer.)

Yeah I'd already been proved wrong earlier and admited to that

Seriously though, this sucks about these fan projects, I really, REALLY want to see something done with Battletech on the cartoon/tv show/web show side of things... I mean, even if we do what the Battletech game has done, and ditch all the unseen, I'm tired of Battletech as a franchise playing second filddle to everything else constantly... we have 30+ years of lore, we have awesome mech combat, we have intrigue and politics on the level of Game of Thrones for ***** sake!

But constant fighting over rights, the way all the battletech rights are spread out... all of it is a mess... and it sucks... man. I just want more good battletech/mechwarrior media.

[Sereglach]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 30 April 2018 - 06:29 AM, said:

Seriously though, this sucks about these fan projects, I really, REALLY want to see something done with Battletech on the cartoon/tv show/web show side of things... I mean, even if we do what the Battletech game has done, and ditch all the unseen, I'm tired of Battletech as a franchise playing second filddle to everything else constantly... we have 30+ years of lore, we have awesome mech combat, we have intrigue and politics on the level of Game of Thrones for ***** sake!

But constant fighting over rights, the way all the battletech rights are spread out... all of it is a mess... and it sucks... man. I just want more good battletech/mechwarrior media.

Amen to that. Honestly, with how Microsoft wants IPs and is trying to expand their horizons, I almost wish that they'd go to Topps and say, "Hey, we want to buy the rest of the rights." (but, agian, almost because we all know how Microsoft has treated the IPs they've gotten their hands on) or that some other third party would come in and buy the rights from both Topps and Microsoft just so they could all be in one place. Hey, one could dream that HBS does well enough that they could attempt to get the rights back in Jordan's hands.

I think consolidation of the rights is the first step to getting the Battletech IP into the limelight in any sense of the concept. If that ever happens, there's so much the IP could do that it'd make "hits" like Game of Thrones look like a joke. Movies, tv series, toy lines, etc.

On a random side note, speaking of TV series. In HBS Battletech I just killed "Brock Armstrong" last night . . . star of the local Holo-vid series "Mercenaries". Anyone else get a similar mission to that one? I love the procedurally generated side mission contracts.

[Koniving]

There are set rules about it. Paramount has such rules too. Will have to check them but the two most obvious is you cannot make or ask for money.... And typically there is a length time rule too.

[Metus regem]

Sereglach, on 30 April 2018 - 08:20 AM, said:

Amen to that. Honestly, with how Microsoft wants IPs and is trying to expand their horizons, I almost wish that they'd go to Topps and say, "Hey, we want to buy the rest of the rights." (but, agian, almost because we all know how Microsoft has treated the IPs they've gotten their hands on) or that some other third party would come in and buy the rights from both Topps and Microsoft just so they could all be in one place. Hey, one could dream that HBS does well enough that they could attempt to get the rights back in Jordan's hands.

I think consolidation of the rights is the first step to getting the Battletech IP into the limelight in any sense of the concept. If that ever happens, there's so much the IP could do that it'd make "hits" like Game of Thrones look like a joke. Movies, tv series, toy lines, etc.

On a random side note, speaking of TV series. In HBS Battletech I just killed "Brock Armstrong" last night . . . star of the local Holo-vid series "Mercenaries". Anyone else get a similar mission to that one? I love the procedurally generated side mission contracts.

Yea that was my first assassination mission, almost failed it too, but he was silly and stood on rough terrain, so I just dumped a ton of stability damage weapons at him and got him to fall over, next round he lost both legs... I got a Catapult C1 out of the deal.

My current lance looks like this:

Highland 732b
Catapult C1
Dragon 1N
Grasshopper 5H

The Highlander and Catapult are geared up for dealing a ton of stability damage.

[Exilyth]

Say, can anyone confirm or deny the claims made in
https://mwomercs.com...ismissed-yayyy/
?

Not seeing any updates over on the CBT forums is making me sceptical tbh.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Exilyth, on 01 May 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

Say, can anyone confirm or deny the claims made in
https://mwomercs.com...ismissed-yayyy/
?

Not seeing any updates over on the CBT forums is making me sceptical tbh.

I think he misquoted his information and probably celebrated a little too early as a result. The ruling that if the judge is going to continue the case is supposed to happen on May 4th of this friday. I think we will hear the court's ruling no later than May 18th from what I recall.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 01 May 2018 - 11:04 AM.

[Horseman]

Exilyth, on 01 May 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

Say, can anyone confirm or deny the claims made in
https://mwomercs.com...ismissed-yayyy/
?

Not seeing any updates over on the CBT forums is making me sceptical tbh.

Sarna's writer misunderstood the document in question and misrepresented what actually happened.
Docket 104 - Stipulation of dismissal with prejudice of Harebrained & Weisman
Note that this isn't a court order, it's a stipulation jointly filed by both HG and HBS. Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 41(a) refers to voluntary dismissal.
The judge later ruled dismissal as a result of that stipulation - cf Docket 116. Do note that he was just rubberstamping the stipulation - no review of the claim's merits has taken place.
Now, the dismissal only pertained to the claims in Harmony Gold's second amended Complaint, found on pages 16 & 17.

The Marauder, Warhammer, Rifleman, Archer and Phoenix Hawk designs are still under dispute as part of the claims against Piranha. They will remain so until either the case goes to court or Piranha's motion for summary judgement is granted. Until then, HG still has a claim to the designs even if its' legal basis is somewhere between shaky and nonexistent.

If HBS reinserted the mechs now, this would give HG cause for either dragging them back in under new claims or filing a new lawsuit against them.

[BadgerWI]

This guy goes through the most recent filings. It's pretty good if you have the time.

https://youtu.be/JY5v7wD8r-s

[Alan Davion]

Horseman, on 01 May 2018 - 08:24 PM, said:

If HBS reinserted the mechs now, this would give HG cause for either dragging them back in under new claims or filing a new lawsuit against them.

Are you absolutely sure about that? Dismissal with prejudice last I recall meant that the party that filed the lawsuit can't file another lawsuit on the same subject.

Remember a few years back with HG suing Hasbro other the SDCC GI JOE Sky Stryker/Transformer Jetfire? HG lost that case, dismissed with prejudice, and Hasbro has released a bunch of Jetfire toys over the last few years that are WAY more similar to the Macross Valkyrie transformable fighters than the SDCC toy was, and HG hasn't been able to say word one about it.

Granted we don't know exactly what was agreed upon between HBS and HG with this dismissal, and we'll probably never know, but I'm inclined to believe that HG is barred from suing HBS over these mechs ever again, meaning HBS could at some point put in the Marauder, Warhammer and Archer, though it won't likely be until HG loses against PGI and the case of their "rights" to the 41 characters, including the mecha themselves, is ultimately settled.

[Metus regem]

Alan Davion, on 02 May 2018 - 09:04 AM, said:

Are you absolutely sure about that? Dismissal with prejudice last I recall meant that the party that filed the lawsuit can't file another lawsuit on the same subject.

Remember a few years back with HG suing Hasbro other the SDCC GI JOE Sky Stryker/Transformer Jetfire? HG lost that case, dismissed with prejudice, and Hasbro has released a bunch of Jetfire toys over the last few years that are WAY more similar to the Macross Valkyrie transformable fighters than the SDCC toy was, and HG hasn't been able to say word one about it.

Granted we don't know exactly what was agreed upon between HBS and HG with this dismissal, and we'll probably never know, but I'm inclined to believe that HG is barred from suing HBS over these mechs ever again, meaning HBS could at some point put in the Marauder, Warhammer and Archer, though it won't likely be until HG loses against PGI and the case of their "rights" to the 41 characters, including the mecha themselves, is ultimately settled.

Unless of course part of the settlement included a stipulation that HBS agreed to never place the unseen in their game, then we are out of luck.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

They are using MWO asset designs for mechs in Btech, right? Not sure why it would be any different using unseen mech designs with all the others.

[Gwei Loong]

Well I would suspect this has a lot more to do with the Robotech movie that's coming out and the game they have planned.



So when they follow through with this and the game gets released they will be using the unseen mecha from not only the original serious but also the movie. Rumor has it that HG has Sony on board to make the Robotech video game. PGI can argue that their rights and mech designs are not that of the original series but in a way I think this lawsuit clears HG and Sony of any future action taken against them then if PGI wants to try and actually make claim to these designs.

Alphabetical List of the "Unseen"

Archer
Battlemaster
Black Python (Viper)
Conjurer (Hellhound)
Crusader
Galleon Light Tank (Only the image from Technical Readout: 3025)
Glass Spider (Galahad)
Goliath
Grand Crusader
Griffin
Griffin IIC
Horned Owl (Peregrine)
Howler (Baboon)
Incubus (Vixen)
Jenner IIC
Locust
Locust IIC
Longbow
Marauder
Marauder II
Marauder IIC
Nexus
Phoenix Hawk
Phoenix Hawk IIC
Phoenix Hawk LAM
Raijin
Rifleman
Rifleman IIC
Samurai AeroSpace Fighter
Scorpion
Shadow Hawk
Shadow Hawk IIC
Stinger
Stinger LAM
Thunderbolt
Valkyrie
Vapor Eagle (Goshawk)
Warhammer
Warhammer IIC
Wasp
Wasp LAM
Wolverine

That list of mechs is whats going to be in question because people will see these two games they will be like WTF I thought that was MWO. Although it does seem that HG has now realized the potential of a game market as it relates to marketing their products. Mind you they always wanted the rights to the action figures but....






This will be big, like Transformers big. It's a dark gritty post apocalyptic, post apocalyptic sci-fi horror based on the original concepts of Robotech. If Sony follows through with the game it will be Sony Arena E-Sports. I honestly don't think HG cares if they win because their already winning. 2019 and 2020 will be big years for Robotech.

Edit: Having an actual Robotech MMO with tanks, mecha, missions, progression, pvp/pve would be cool but if SOE picked up other Streamline Pictures big hits like Vampire Hunter D, Akira, and Wicked City then made MMOs out them also I think they might be on to something.

Edited by Gwei Loong, 02 May 2018 - 10:34 AM.

[Metus regem]

Mechwarrior1441491, on 02 May 2018 - 09:45 AM, said:

They are using MWO asset designs for mechs in Btech, right? Not sure why it would be any different using unseen mech designs with all the others.

Actually it does, if to get their battletech game out (as part of the deal with paradox) they had to clear their legal troubles away (as I imagine Steam and GoG, might not like the idea of copy right infringement hanging over their heads), not to mention on going costs with legal issues, I wouldn't be surprised if HBS said "Fine, what ever, we'll just pull the unseen. There, happy now?" then reach some sort of cash agreement that both sides were happy with. After that say to a judge, yup we're all good now, this can be dismissed.

If that is the case, and there was the stipulation for them to never put them in, then no matter what happens they are gone. As one of the lawyers said, once you screw up in the case like this you can't really undo that.

[CK16]

I have my doubts honestly. History had shown Robottech games hardly succeed if ever get produced even...

[Horseman]

Alan Davion, on 02 May 2018 - 09:04 AM, said:

Are you absolutely sure about that? Dismissal with prejudice last I recall meant that the party that filed the lawsuit can't file another lawsuit on the same subject.

It means the plaintiff is barred from bringing another action (lawsuit) on the same claim, which in this case would be "Atlas, Shadow Hawk and Locust are infringing in Harmony Gold's rights".

Edited by Horseman, 02 May 2018 - 10:19 AM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Gwei Loong, on 02 May 2018 - 09:51 AM, said:

Rumor has it that HG has Sony on board to make the Robotech video game. PGI can argue that their rights and mech designs are not that of the original series but in a way I think this lawsuit clears HG and Sony of any future action taken against them then if PGI wants to try and actually make claim to these designs.

And again, Harmony Gold has no rights to the designs that they are trying to claim. It's Harmony Gold that is crying about PGI's derivative designs that they are trying to claim that is "their's" (which again it isn't because the japanese courts ruled out that Big West/Studio Nue are the owners of the Macross characters).

Gwei Loong, on 02 May 2018 - 09:51 AM, said:

This will be big, like Transformers big. It's a dark gritty post apocalyptic, post apocalyptic sci-fi horror based on the original concepts of Robotech. If Sony follows through with the game it will be Sony Arena E-Sports. I honestly don't think HG cares if they win because their already winning. 2019 and 2020 will be big years for Robotech.

Harmony Gold has literally sat on Robotech for the past decade or so and has done nothing but trolled others for their mech designs. They let Palladium Books go to the wayside with their Robotech table top game, which let many Robotech fans extremely angry at their kickstarter project. It's funny that you say this movie will be "Transformers" big since Harmony Gold attempted to sue Hasbro over the Valkyrie design, and failed miserably with that lawsuit.

I think if anything Harmony Gold is trying to finalize a stranglehold on the Robotech/Macross franchise before they lose their license in 2021. Sony will probably not bother with Robotech if they did a little research and they saw Harmony Gold's failed kickstarters and their shady dealings with the Italian government.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 02 May 2018 - 10:27 AM.