1809 replies to this topic

[Will9761]

Now that it’s May the 7th, is this the time where HG gathers their evidence (or the lackthereof) against Jordan? Because I remember that even though the HBS court was dismissed with prejudice, the judge did give some breathing room to HG to find reasonable proof. I’m just curious about that.

[Alan Davion]

Will9761, on 07 May 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

Now that it’s May the 7th, is this the time where HG gathers their evidence (or the lackthereof) against Jordan? Because I remember that even though the HBS court was dismissed with prejudice, the judge did give some breathing room to HG to find reasonable proof. I’m just curious about that.

Why would HG need to do anything more with Mr. Weisman? The HBS part of the case is over and done with.

What we're all champing at the bit over currently is whether the judge grants PGI's request for summary judgement against HG and brings an end, once and for all, to HG ever trying to sue against anything Battletech for all eternity.

It would have happened this past Friday, but we won't find out the results of which until today/tomorrow due to how the system works.

[Will9761]

Alan Davion, on 07 May 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

Why would HG need to do anything more with Mr. Weisman? The HBS part of the case is over and done with.

What we're all champing at the bit over currently is whether the judge grants PGI's request for summary judgement against HG and brings an end, once and for all, to HG ever trying to sue against anything Battletech for all eternity.

It would have happened this past Friday, but we won't find out the results of which until today/tomorrow due to how the system works.

Ah, ok. Thank you for clearing that up.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Alan Davion, on 07 May 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

Why would HG need to do anything more with Mr. Weisman? The HBS part of the case is over and done with.

What we're all champing at the bit over currently is whether the judge grants PGI's request for summary judgement against HG and brings an end, once and for all, to HG ever trying to sue against anything Battletech for all eternity.

It would have happened this past Friday, but we won't find out the results of which until today/tomorrow due to how the system works.

Or we might have to wait until the 18th, because from what I understand over on the battletech forums the court system works around every 3rd friday of the month. The earliest response that the court may have had would be on the 4th. In between those days we might have to wait on what the Judge decides on what to do next. I think the longest we would have to wait for an official court response to PGI's 2nd motion of summary would be on the 18th. As far as I understand, these court docket things update every midnight on the same day that something happens.

[Metus regem]

Arnold The Governator, on 07 May 2018 - 02:13 PM, said:

Or we might have to wait until the 18th, because from what I understand over on the battletech forums the court system works around every 3rd friday of the month. The earliest response that the court may have had would be on the 4th. In between those days we might have to wait on what the Judge decides on what to do next. I think the longest we would have to wait for an official court response to PGI's 2nd motion of summary would be on the 18th. As far as I understand, these court docket things update every midnight on the same day that something happens.

From my understanding the Judge set the date of the 4th of May, so that's kind of set in stone as far as the courts counts things....

[Horseman]

Will9761, on 07 May 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

Now that it’s May the 7th, is this the time where HG gathers their evidence (or the lackthereof) against Jordan? Because I remember that even though the HBS court was dismissed with prejudice, the judge did give some breathing room to HG to find reasonable proof. I’m just curious about that.

No.
HG dismissed against HBS and Weisman voluntarily (I can link you to the stipulation by parties and the resulting court order, if you want; I think I posted it in this thread already a couple pages back though). No such breathing room was given for that claim, it was given for the Doe Defendants (which stands for "we think we may also name that many further defendants as the case develops").

Arnold The Governator, on 07 May 2018 - 02:13 PM, said:

As far as I understand, these court docket things update every midnight on the same day that something happens.

They usually update within 24h, but it's not guaranteed.

Metus regem, on 07 May 2018 - 02:16 PM, said:

From my understanding the Judge set the date of the 4th of May, so that's kind of set in stone as far as the courts counts things....

No, that related to the Doe Defendants (which HG has now voluntarily dropped). It does not affect the Motion For Summary Judgement, which if my information is correct can be ruled on within a month from the noting date (which would still give him the next 10 days to do it)

Edited by Horseman, 07 May 2018 - 02:23 PM.

[Kali Rinpoche]

DFM, on 05 May 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

And why i'll continue to spend $20 at least of my disposable income(More than that likely, daddy went back to work! Yaay for healed Knee's!) a month to support PGI. Sure, things may not be the greatest, there might be issues, but supporting the game even if it's not contributing to the warchest for the suit is beneficial to us all. Why continue a suit if they let the game die. This is about fighting for the future, than it is about MWO.

Even all the PGI haters and people that have said someone else should buy the rights, the cesspool of what can/can't be used and potential lawsuits isn't exactly endearing to potential projects, ya know?

I feel the same way and that's why I buy mech packs..

[Horseman]

Horseman, on 07 May 2018 - 02:20 PM, said:

HG dismissed against HBS and Weisman voluntarily (I can link you to the stipulation by parties and the resulting court order, if you want; I think I posted it in this thread already a couple pages back though).

https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__6084427

[MustrumRidcully]

Horseman, on 02 May 2018 - 10:19 AM, said:

It means the plaintiff is barred from bringing another action (lawsuit) on the same claim, which in this case would be "Atlas, Shadow Hawk and Locust are infringing in Harmony Gold's rights".

Which, incidentally, are in the game. While the Marauder still isn't. So maybe that was the agreement they had. Okay, Atlas, Shadow Hawk and Locust are crazy anyway, but we don't want the Marauder or Warhammer in there?

[Horseman]

MustrumRidcully, on 08 May 2018 - 03:23 AM, said:

Which, incidentally, are in the game. While the Marauder still isn't. So maybe that was the agreement they had. Okay, Atlas, Shadow Hawk and Locust are crazy anyway, but we don't want the Marauder or Warhammer in there?

I doubt that. Both were absent before the backer beta started, and we know for a fact that at least the Marauder was in and working during early alpha.

[FireStoat]

HBS left the Unseen out of the Beta and intentionally stood by their 'mechs to be included for release' list with those mechs absent so HG's lawsuit could only focus on the Atlas / Shadow Hawk / Locust portion, which everyone knew was a complete waste of time with the image comparisons. PGI on the other hand is banking on the Unseen mechs being included for MW 5 which has a very large sales potential, so it's a much bigger deal for them. I'm very glad they stayed in the ring for the fight instead of backing down.

I'm feeling optimistic that the request for summary judgement will go through as Harmony Gold hasn't produced a single document that would be recognized by the court as evidence that they own the rights to the images, models, and derivative works involving them. The letter rogatory for fishing up that exact evidence that isn't in their possession to begin with is a hail mary at best. The thing that DOES concern me is that if and when HG has the case ruled against them, Big West which probably DOES have the legal rights to the images, models, and derivative works might start up their own suit.

The odds of them winning would be terrible when we look at past cases involving derivative works and what actually can be protected (that Exo Squad case still boggles my mind), but would PGI just settle in a hurry to get MW 5 out the door with the models intact, and leave the whole issue still up in the air for Harebrained Schemes to face if they wanted to put the Unseen into Battletech?

[Requiemking]

FireStoat, on 08 May 2018 - 09:18 AM, said:

HBS left the Unseen out of the Beta and intentionally stood by their 'mechs to be included for release' list with those mechs absent so HG's lawsuit could only focus on the Atlas / Shadow Hawk / Locust portion, which everyone knew was a complete waste of time with the image comparisons. PGI on the other hand is banking on the Unseen mechs being included for MW 5 which has a very large sales potential, so it's a much bigger deal for them. I'm very glad they stayed in the ring for the fight instead of backing down.

I'm feeling optimistic that the request for summary judgement will go through as Harmony Gold hasn't produced a single document that would be recognized by the court as evidence that they own the rights to the images, models, and derivative works involving them. The letter rogatory for fishing up that exact evidence that isn't in their possession to begin with is a hail mary at best. The thing that DOES concern me is that if and when HG has the case ruled against them, Big West which probably DOES have the legal rights to the images, models, and derivative works might start up their own suit.

The odds of them winning would be terrible when we look at past cases involving derivative works and what actually can be protected (that Exo Squad case still boggles my mind), but would PGI just settle in a hurry to get MW 5 out the door with the models intact, and leave the whole issue still up in the air for Harebrained Schemes to face if they wanted to put the Unseen into Battletech?

The thing is that, unlike with HG, Big West actually has a good record with Battletech. I might be wrong but I believe it was them who redesigned Battletech's mechs for the Japanese version of Battletech, so they know all about the Unseen and have done nothing about it.

EDIT: Nevermind, it was Studio Nue who did Japanese Battletech, not Big west.

Edited by Requiemking, 08 May 2018 - 09:42 AM.

[Adridos]

Requiemking, on 08 May 2018 - 09:38 AM, said:

The thing is that, unlike with HG, Big West actually has a good record with Battletech. I might be wrong but I believe it was them who redesigned Battletech's mechs for the Japanese version of Battletech, so they know all about the Unseen and have done nothing about it.

EDIT: Nevermind, it was Studio Nue who did Japanese Battletech, not Big west.

Big West is on the record saying that if Battletech ever used their (original unseen) designs, they will sue it.
The difference being that Big West does not necessarily have to sue the redesigns from FD and SS. Whereas HG sues anything even remotely comparable to the unseen since it has worked for them really well so far.

[Requiemking]

Adridos, on 08 May 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

Big West is on the record saying that if Battletech ever used their (original unseen) designs, they will sue it.
The difference being that Big West does not necessarily have to sue the redesigns from FD and SS. Whereas HG sues anything even remotely comparable to the unseen since it has worked for them really well so far.

So, PGI's designs are still ok yes? They aren't the original "Unseen" designs, so they should be fine.

[Adridos]

Requiemking, on 08 May 2018 - 10:45 AM, said:

So, PGI's designs are still ok yes? They aren't the original "Unseen" designs, so they should be fine.

In my personal opinion, the only "blatant" redesign of the MW:O batch would be the Archer. As to whether or not Big West sees it that way is really up in the air and something that most people would rather not see tested, IMHO. Including me.

[Alan Davion]

Adridos, on 08 May 2018 - 10:56 AM, said:

In my personal opinion, the only "blatant" redesign of the MW:O batch would be the Archer. As to whether or not Big West sees it that way is really up in the air and something that most people would rather not see tested, IMHO. Including me.

And even then, there are some pretty major differences between the Archer Battlemech and the Spartan Destroid.

The cockpit for example. The Archer has it, what, basically in the belly doesn't it? The Spartan's is way up on the top near the laser turret. Then there's the weapons. So while both mecha have rocket/missile launchers in their chest/shoulders, the Spartan has a big weapons cluster in the center torso and the Archer doesn't, it instead has weapons on the arms, and not just some silly club.

So that's basically, what, one similarity out of three between the two mecha? I don't think that would be enough to sue over personally, while we know HG certainly would, what with them frothing at the mouth over even the smallest little thing, I don't think BW would waste time and money over a 1/3 similarity between the two mechs.

[Valdarion Silarius]

https://bg.battletec...topic=60546.930

Since the Moderators here are being complete tools and locked the TRO Succession Wars and Harmony Gold thread, post any relevant dockets or interesting documents around the 18th here. I just fail to understand how you can talk about the case to begin with without discussing the unseen, reseen, artwork, etc. when the entire case is about said subjects. Also, if anyone is interested in keeping us updated you can make a pacer account and keep us updated from here:

https://www.pacermon...hemes_LLC_et_al

They update every midnight if anything new happens with the case. Also, there is this site in which you can track the case as well:

https://www.courtlis...mes-llc/?page=2

[Horseman]

Arnold The Governator, on 14 May 2018 - 10:38 AM, said:

Since the Moderators here are being complete tools and locked the TRO Succession Wars and Harmony Gold thread, post any relevant dockets or interesting documents around the 18th here. I just fail to understand how you can talk about the case to begin with without discussing the unseen, reseen, artwork, etc. when the entire case is about said subjects. Also, if anyone is interested in keeping us updated you can make a pacer account and keep us updated from here:

They forbade discussion of those parts of those subjects that are not directly relevant to the present lawsuit, since the thread kept derailing.

And then IMMEDIATELY after a moderator post telling them not to do it (or else), a few people started bringing those subjects up AGAIN anyway.

I would not be surprised if this time they ended up permanently locking that thread and making the entire subject of the lawsuit off-limits on CGL forums.

Edited by Horseman, 14 May 2018 - 10:55 AM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Horseman, on 14 May 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

They forbade discussion of those parts of those subjects that are not directly relevant to the present lawsuit, since the thread kept derailing.

And then IMMEDIATELY after a moderator post telling them not to do it (or else), a few people started bringing those subjects up AGAIN anyway.

I would not be surprised if this time they ended up permanently locking that thread and making the entire subject of the lawsuit off-limits on CGL forums.

I disagree with their list of rules, since the discussion of the court case is revolving around the artwork of the unseen and the ones in question. Again, I don't have an account on that site and if they decide to permanently lock that thread (which would be a shame since I was using that site for info after the mods on the HBS forum shut down the thread about this particular case), this thread will become be the last open discussion about the court case.

[Vanguard836]

So where are we at now ?