1809 replies to this topic

[Alan Davion]

W E N D I G O, on 01 August 2017 - 07:29 AM, said:

I don't share your confidence and see no reason why anyone would have it. We'll see how this turns out though, won't we?

It's called hyperbole and having a bit of fun using Battletech lore to give these events a somewhat humorous twist.

I don't know that this will actually go to trial, although I certainly hope it does and that PGI, HBS, Jordan Weisman and CGL finally give HG the kick in the teeth they've had coming for almost 30 years now.

[MustrumRidcully]

Lily from animove, on 01 August 2017 - 06:46 AM, said:

if they only have NA rights, and IF it should fail,. all the NA players would be blocked from buying the mechs while happy little EU's, South americans and asians still run around with them.

Im,agine that in the MWO store: "This mech is not available in your reagion" xD werd dam weird

Note that the copyright claim actually only show the preview images generated by PGI. They don't seem to claim the in-game Marauder is actually violating any copyrights, quite possible because that is a fully fledged 3D Model and all they have is a cartoon picture, basically.

So it seems the big issues coming from this could really be that PGI has to remove all the art from the website and similar material, and pay damages. The latter would be the real problem.

[C E Dwyer]

jss78, on 01 August 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:

If PGI does take it to court, and wins, I'd be so goddamned grateful to them I have no words. They could sell a gold Vindicator for $500 and I'd buy it.

lol yeah maybe a gold Victor for me

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

I think Mitch Gitelman would be better for that, but maybe that's just me.

We can dub him poorly over Paul's mouth movements. Given this is Harmony Gold, it'd only be appropriate.

[James Argent]

FASA didn't 'steal' the designs from anyone. They went to the ACTUAL creators in Japan and got permission from them to use the Macross designs in BattleDroids. HG's claim is actually one of conflicting licenses rather than sole ownership...they aren't the only one with legal standing here, which is why Battletech/MechWarrior still exists after all these years.

[Adridos]

James Argent, on 01 August 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

FASA didn't 'steal' the designs from anyone. They went to the ACTUAL creators in Japan and got permission from them to use the Macross designs in BattleDroids.

Except they did not. There was this old company called Twentieth Century Imports.
These guys were dealing with licensing anime board-games. The guys who then made those board games in the US were none other than FASA. In the end, FASA decided to try and make their own game of this, so they copied the Japanese mecha wargames they were re-distributing (many people cite Battle of Stanley as the main inspiration) in the US and ended up with Battletech (Battledroids at the time). Since they were already dealing with TCI and had production set up for hex maps and miniatures of Dougram robots, they went ahead and licensed the designs from TCI along with a few other merch licenses these guys seemingly had.

As time moved on, Battletech did good for itself while TCI died along the way. Come the Harmony Gold dispute, they owned the designs through a third party that had ceased to exist and also had quite a few not-so licensed designs in their books and what-not. This was perhaps not seen as big of an issue between tabletop companies (Warhammer 40k, for instance, kickstarted their own titans by making metallic molds of some Battletech designs), but Harmony Gold was willing to defend itself (remember, FASA was the one to start the case over their copy of the Mad Cat) with a budget that a relatively poor company like FASA simply couldn't compete with. Hence the eventual settlement out of court and a massive purge of anything that didn't stand on perfect legal grounds or was even practically illegal (HG copied Mad Cat, Battletech copied MOSPEADA mechs and a bunch of stuff you'd really have to ask people much more knowledgeable about old BTech than yours truly).

Edited by Adridos, 01 August 2017 - 12:14 PM.

[Kyrie]

This thread is becoming one of the high points of my day, and I can't quite explain why. ;-)

[Dee Eight]

Ryllen Kriel, on 01 August 2017 - 12:12 AM, said:

What irks me the most about Harmony Gold is that they aren't responsible for any of the creativity of the Macross series, or any other series behind the mechs in question. They handle distribution rights in a portion of the world, that's it. They created nothing, yet they cling to things they didn't create. What a bunch of tools. I don't believe in the supernatural but poetically speaking there is a special place in hell for Harmony Gold, I hope this law suit buries them, their pets and their first of kin.

They're not responsible for the original japanese series and their respective different stories and fantasy worlds / timelines, etc. Macross's story was about an alien invasion/attack by a group from the Inspection forces, searching for a ship from the Supervision Army (the Macross being that ship). Southern Cross was about a human colony on an alien world, being attacked by the returning original humanoid life form who were trying to retake their own ancestral planet. Mospeada was about earth and an alien invader who had actually come to the planet hoping to evolve to a new higher state of existence while there.

However... taking the three different, though similar in concepts (they all had the humans using transformable mecha) and artwork anime series...editing the footage together and creating a whole new storyline, character names, new english dialogue,etc... and calling it all Robotech... THAT they are responsible for.

Edited by Dee Eight, 01 August 2017 - 01:40 PM.

[Metus regem]

Dee Eight, on 01 August 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

They're not responsible for the original japanese series and their respective different stories and fantasy worlds / timelines, etc. Macross's story was about an alien invasion/attack by a group from the Inspection forces, searching for a ship from the Supervision Army (the Macross being that ship). Southern Cross was about a human colony on an alien world, being attacked by the returning original humanoid life form who were trying to retake their own ancestral planet. Mospeada was about earth and an alien invader who had actually come to the planet hoping to evolve to a new higher state of existence while there.

However... taking the three different, though similar in concepts (they all had the humans using transformable mecha) and artwork anime series...editing the footage together and creating a whole new storyline, character names, new english dialogue,etc... and calling it all Robotech... THAT they are responsible for.

Not to mention heavily editing some of the original works too... all I have to say is Fokker's room aboard the SDF 1....wow, just wow.

[Lightfoot]

Dee Eight, on 01 August 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

They're not responsible for the original japanese series and their respective different stories and fantasy worlds / timelines, etc. Macross's story was about an alien invasion/attack by a group from the Inspection forces, searching for a ship from the Supervision Army (the Macross being that ship). Southern Cross was about a human colony on an alien world, being attacked by the returning original humanoid life form who were trying to retake their own ancestral planet. Mospeada was about earth and an alien invader who had actually come to the planet hoping to evolve to a new higher state of existence while there.

However... taking the three different, though similar in concepts (they all had the humans using transformable mecha) and artwork anime series...editing the footage together and creating a whole new storyline, character names, new english dialogue,etc... and calling it all Robotech... THAT they are responsible for.

But apparently Tatsunoko Productions only had permission to sell distribution rights for Super Dimension Fortress Macross outside Japan, which is who sold the rights to HG. Japanese court rulings say Tatsunoko Productions and HG do not have the rights to generate new Macross content, but apparently they or HG did by re-writing the original 3 stories into one and calling it Robotech. To which Harmony Gold says that only applies to Japan. Sounds like HG is really out on a limb. They can't get or make new Macross content (they don't own it) and Studio Nue (they do own Macross) won't release new content outside Japan because of HG's claims and disavowal of Japan's court rulings.

So I don't think HG actually owns what they are litigating over. They just want all Giant Robots to cease and desist!

Edited by Lightfoot, 01 August 2017 - 03:33 PM.

[Dee Eight]

Studio Nue themselves aren't interested in the other markets, and nobody big enough wants to go thru licensing the other series or take the time to english dub them. The last such company was Manga Entertainment with Macross Plus, the first official Macros Sequel in 1995. Manga btw is owned by Lions Gate Entertainment.. aka a company HG isn't stupid enough to go after. Bryan Cranston voiced Isamu Dyson in the english dub, and Richard Epcar was Guld Goa Bowman (and Batou in the english dub of Ghost in the Shell, which Manga co-produced). The reason Studio Nue doesn't want to market their products themselves to other markets basically comes down to money. The market for anime isn't that big outside of Japan (where its part of regular daytime television) and thus not worth the needed investment (in time and money) to do it. But having english and chinese sub-titles on the blu-ray and dvd releases to the series... THAT is something they will do, and thus you can order the subsequent series from asia if you're a fan. I get my Macross sequels from Malaysia. I just got my Macross Delta discs in June. The next Macross sequel is supposed to be broadcast in 2018, so the DVDs will probably be released in 2019.

As it happens... a host of Japanese Anime are now broadcast on Netflix and Amazon Prime. Perhaps if their subscribers ask for the Macross Sequels, they'll pick them up and broadcast them, and that'll really screw over HG.

Edited by Dee Eight, 01 August 2017 - 04:04 PM.

[Mechwarrior4670152]

Dee Eight, on 01 August 2017 - 03:56 PM, said:

aka a company HG isn't stupid enough to go after...

I would have thought the same thing about Hasbro.

[Shadowomega1]

Dee Eight, on 01 August 2017 - 03:56 PM, said:

Studio Nue themselves aren't interested in the other markets, and nobody big enough wants to go thru licensing the other series or take the time to english dub them. The last such company was Manga Entertainment with Macross Plus, the first official Macros Sequel in 1995. Manga btw is owned by Lions Gate Entertainment.. aka a company HG isn't stupid enough to go after. Bryan Cranston voiced Isamu Dyson in the english dub, and Richard Epcar was Guld Goa Bowman (and Batou in the english dub of Ghost in the Shell, which Manga co-produced). The reason Studio Nue doesn't want to market their products themselves to other markets basically comes down to money. The market for anime isn't that big outside of Japan (where its part of regular daytime television) and thus not worth the needed investment (in time and money) to do it. But having english and chinese sub-titles on the blu-ray and dvd releases to the series... THAT is something they will do, and thus you can order the subsequent series from asia if you're a fan. I get my Macross sequels from Malaysia. I just got my Macross Delta discs in June. The next Macross sequel is supposed to be broadcast in 2018, so the DVDs will probably be released in 2019.

As it happens... a host of Japanese Anime are now broadcast on Netflix and Amazon Prime. Perhaps if their subscribers ask for the Macross Sequels, they'll pick them up and broadcast them, and that'll really screw over HG.

There was a video on youtube showing the head creator of the Macross series saying they would love to sell it overseas however due to HG being around still they can not. Further proof of this is the series still receives a english sub for any of those that want to purchase the dvd sets while in japan or through other streaming means.

[chucklesMuch]

Juodas Varnas, on 29 July 2017 - 11:44 AM, said:

When we log in and find that our Marauders and Warhammers are gone?

I'm kidding, just kidding.

But we'll probably be in the dark for quite some time, probably until this whole nonsense blows over.

...at which point they should replace them with quads....

[Juodas Varnas]

chucklesMuch, on 02 August 2017 - 12:53 AM, said:

...at which point they should replace them with quads....

[Alan Davion]

Adridos, on 01 August 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

Battletech copied Macross.

FTFY. There is no Mospeada mecha, or Southern Cross mecha in Battletech.

Dee Eight, on 01 August 2017 - 03:56 PM, said:

As it happens... a host of Japanese Anime are now broadcast on Netflix and Amazon Prime. Perhaps if their subscribers ask for the Macross Sequels, they'll pick them up and broadcast them, and that'll really screw over HG.

That won't work either. Netflix has Robotech up currently, and you know HG had a hand in that.

[Adridos]

Alan Davion, on 02 August 2017 - 03:09 AM, said:

FTFY. There is no Mospeada mecha, or Southern Cross mecha in Battletech.

There aren't any Mospeada designs because those were purged following the HG lawsuit.
If you find old Battletech books, they have quite a few stolen designs in them.

Here's the pics from The Spider and the Wolf scenario pack.
This one is from Mospeada:


This one features both Mospeada AND Southern Cross:


As I said, FASA/Battletech had a bit of an illegal track record as well.

[ScrapIron Prime]

There's a lot of stuff that was published, like the comic above, that is no longer considered canon. Like my entire collection of Battletechnology magazines. Like the Stardate magazine which saw the first publication of the Longbow (another Macross design).

[Inappropriate1]

This is in court. They can't discuss this. Let the lawyers handel it. It will likely settle. Stop trying to help. You are not helping when you make petitions and noise. For the love of God! Stop helping. You are making it harder on pgi and hbs.

I don't like pgi much but damn I don't want to hurt them in court. Now shut up and play.

Edited by Inappropriate1, 05 August 2017 - 08:09 PM.

[Requiemking]

chucklesMuch, on 02 August 2017 - 12:53 AM, said:

...at which point they should replace them with quads....

Juodas Varnas, on 02 August 2017 - 01:06 AM, said:

Get these clown mechs OUTTA MY HANGER.

PSA: Sarna's forums don't like us very much. This hurts my spine for some reason.

Edited by Requiemking, 05 August 2017 - 08:56 PM.