1809 replies to this topic

[Kyrie]

Pariah Devalis, on 13 August 2017 - 07:27 AM, said:

No, that isn't what I'm referencing, at all. There are people here bitching about "PGI's greed spoiling the unseen for everyone."

Except nobody was using the unseens anyways.

That lack of logical flow confuses the hell out of me. How can PGI ruin something if that something was already ruined? Frankly, what PGI did for the unseen is the best thing to happen to them in the last few decades.

Please keep in mind that the MWO crowd, the BT crowd, and the HBS group are distinct communities. ;-)

HBS, for example, is in theory putting their entire game at risk because of their plans to include a few mechs, potentially to detriment of both the HBS crowd of players and future BT development. If HBS/PGI lose in court, the cost in damages could paralyze the game entirely. Their concern is can be summarized as: "FFS, just bring out the game and avoid lawsuits!"

The BT crowd can argue, reasonably enough, that if HG manages to shut down PGI/HBS by winning a huge award in damages, the entire BT franchise may end up fk'd over.

[Brain Cancer]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 13 August 2017 - 03:13 AM, said:

Yeah, they're not THAT stupid.

They do seem to love the idea however of going after "smaller" company's.

They DID sue Hasbro, which is anything but small.

[Juodas Varnas]

Brain Cancer, on 13 August 2017 - 11:48 AM, said:

They DID sue Hasbro, which is anything but small.

And they were put in their place.
(Despire the fact that that Jetfire design is IDENTICAL to the Macross Valkyrie, both mold-wise AND pattern wise (the only difference being the colors and Jetfire having an autobot symbol on it)



Here's hoping PGI/CGL/HBS can use this as a precedent (or whatever it's called when previous cases set an example or something, i don't know, i'm neither a lawyer nor an american)

[Bombast]

Juodas Varnas, on 13 August 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

Here's hoping PGI/CGL/HBS can use this as a precedent (or whatever it's called when previous cases set an example or something, i don't know, i'm neither a lawyer nor an american)

Precedent would be correct, though I don't believe that counts, as there was never a court decision.

[Juodas Varnas]

Bombast, on 13 August 2017 - 12:06 PM, said:

Precedent would be correct, though I don't believe that counts, as there was never a court decision.

Oh...
That's lame.

[Fang01]

Lootee, on 13 August 2017 - 07:12 AM, said:

Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam came out around the same time as Robotech started showing in the USA. It has since been released in a 2 box DVD set here. Maybe Whoremoney ***** will get froggy and try to exert their non-existent copyright on the transformable robot concept against Bandai.

Would love to see them crushed like a bug by the Japanese giant.

That'd go over like a Hizack vs Haman Karn's Quebley.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Bombast, on 13 August 2017 - 12:06 PM, said:

Precedent would be correct, though I don't believe that counts, as there was never a court decision.

Technically there was, as the case was "Dismissed with Predjuice"

[Bombast]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 13 August 2017 - 12:43 PM, said:

Technically there was, as the case was "Dismissed with Predjuice"

It was a Stipulated Dismissal, though. That's not so much a decision as it is an acknowledgement from the court that both parties had settled. Even if that settlement was public, no one would be bound to it.

And thank god for that. We'd be in a weird world if all you needed to do to set precedent was to sue someone friendly to you and then settle.

[Jiyu Mononoke]

except PGI is not using the unseen ... they are using reseen mechs.

- I can only wish they would pull out the old original 14 unseen, especially the ones from Macross, I mean, if they are gonna get sued for something that doesn't even look like the real originals (from the HG copy write ~ Macross), why not...

Edited by Freebrth, 13 August 2017 - 01:58 PM.

[Dee Eight]

Lootee, on 13 August 2017 - 07:12 AM, said:

Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam came out around the same time as Robotech started showing in the USA. It has since been released in a 2 box DVD set here. Maybe Whoremoney ***** will get froggy and try to exert their non-existent copyright on the transformable robot concept against Bandai.

Would love to see them crushed like a bug by the Japanese giant.

The three principal creators of SDF:Macross met in college when they were formed a Mobile Suit Gundam fan club....at age 19 in 1979. Shoji Kawamori did the mecha design for every official Macross series, and dozens of others. PGI/HBS outta pay for his airfare & hotel to come testify about who designed what and when, and actually owns the copyrights to what. He'll need a translator as his english is pretty limited but that shouldn't be too hard to find.

https://en.wikipedia...5%8Dji_Kawamori

Personal life

Shoji Kawamori was born in Toyama, Japan in 1960. Later in his youth he attended Keio University in the late seventies and in the same years as Macross screenwriter Hiroshi Ōnogi and character designer Haruhiko Mikimoto, where they became friends and founded a Mobile Suit Gundam fan club called "Gunsight One", a name the group would use years later during the development of the fictional world of the Macross series.

[MischiefSC]

Juodas Varnas, on 13 August 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

And they were put in their place.
(Despire the fact that that Jetfire design is IDENTICAL to the Macross Valkyrie, both mold-wise AND pattern wise (the only difference being the colors and Jetfire having an autobot symbol on it)



Here's hoping PGI/CGL/HBS can use this as a precedent (or whatever it's called when previous cases set an example or something, i don't know, i'm neither a lawyer nor an american)

I remember that toy when I was a kid. It was awesome.

Also, **** Harmony Gold. **** them in their ****ing **** holes. I used to love Robotech. Was a great anime series for the time and I wish it had gotten bought by a company that wasn't so worthless.

[Exilyth]

I truly hope the parasitic existence of the evil faceless corporation which shall not be named will end once and for all.

They had to resort to backroom deals when dealing with Studio Nue.
They had to resort to out of courts settlement in FASA vs. HG.
Do they even hold the rights or are they just a distributor for robotech? Just a distributor.
Their current repetition of unjustified attack on a well established IP is reminiscent of the crazy guy who currently tries to sue games workshop (another tabletop company) for 62million: http://www.belloflos...op-for-62m.html

At least this time CGL, PGI and HBS will be able to cooperate against them.

Edited by Exilyth, 13 August 2017 - 04:16 PM.

[Novakaine]

The only thing they owned here are or were the video distribution right in the continental United States.

[Requiemking]

Pariah Devalis, on 13 August 2017 - 07:04 AM, said:

What I don't get is this:

They want to use the unseens, right? Well, doing nothing would still result in not getting to use the unseens. By putting unseen back in MWO/BT, we get to use the unseens. HG threatens legal action? So what? It isn't like anyone was able to enjoy the original mechs, anyways. What the hell does it change if HG wants to try and sue?

"Waa, because of the lawsuit, we can't use the unseen mechs that... we already couldn't actually use."
Someone, please, I beg of you, explain that logic to me?

Here is the thing. One of the posters, well, the general intent of his comment went something like this, "Why couldn't they have based their revamps on the Primitive Wasp. That mech is awesome and it should have been the basis for the redesigns, not the Unseen art". To be fair, I do quite like that particular redesign.

Edited by Requiemking, 13 August 2017 - 04:00 PM.

[Dee Eight]

Exilyth, on 13 August 2017 - 02:57 PM, said:

.
Do they even hold the rights or are they just a distributor for robotech?

Robotech is a original creation of Harmony Gold and thus yes they do hold the copyrights for it, just as Battle of the Planets is a creation of Sandy Frank Entertainment. While both used original japanese anime series for their animation, there was heavy editing involved to make them suitable for the USA television audience. BotP removed graphic violence, profanity, nudity and transgenderism while Robotech removed everything above but the transgenderism (as they left the bit about Yellow Dancer, aka the cross-dressing Lancer in the new generation chapter which was derived from Genesis Climber MOSPEADA, not to mention all the bits about the invid being essentially genderless, the zentradi being genetically engineered clones with segregated genders, etc). The stories were changed in both cases, character names, having english voice actors dub the footage to fit the new plot scripts for each episode, etc. BotP had all new animation done to fill in the space of all the stuff they cut, involving the 7-zark-7 robot giving narration from "center neptune".

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Exilyth, on 13 August 2017 - 02:57 PM, said:

I truly hope the parasitic existence of the evil faceless corporation which shall not be named will end once and for all.

They had to resort to backroom deals when dealing with Studio Nue.
They had to resort to out of courts settlement in FASA vs. HG.
Do they even hold the rights or are they just a distributor for robotech? Just a distributor.
Their current repetition of unjustified attack on a well established IP is reminiscent of the crazy guy who currently tries to sue games workshop (another tabletop company) for 62million: http://www.belloflos...op-for-62m.html

At least this time CGL, PGI and HBS will be able to cooperate against them.

Actually, read up on the Games Workshop lawsuit... there's actually some solid reasons he's suing them [and Games Workshop has self incriminated themselves in the past regarding their insanely high markup, and have flat out said they want a monolopy on tabletop war gaming... so they haven't done themselves any favors.]

[slide]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 13 August 2017 - 12:43 PM, said:

Technically there was, as the case was "Dismissed with Predjuice"

What exactly does "Dismissed with Prejudice" mean. Not necessarily in this case but in general.

I would take it to mean the Judge thinks the case is a waste of his time and if he see's them again they will be shot. As an Australian this kind of American legal jargon is a bit baffling.

Dee Eight, on 13 August 2017 - 04:16 PM, said:

Robotech is a original creation of Harmony Gold and thus yes they do hold the copyrights for it, just as Battle of the Planets is a creation of Sandy Frank Entertainment. While both used original japanese anime series for their animation, there was heavy editing involved to make them suitable for the USA television audience. BotP removed graphic violence, profanity, nudity and transgenderism while Robotech removed everything above but the transgenderism (as they left the bit about Yellow Dancer, aka the cross-dressing Lancer in the new generation chapter which was derived from Genesis Climber MOSPEADA, not to mention all the bits about the invid being essentially genderless, the zentradi being genetically engineered clones with segregated genders, etc). The stories were changed in both cases, character names, having english voice actors dub the footage to fit the new plot scripts for each episode, etc. BotP had all new animation done to fill in the space of all the stuff they cut, involving the 7-zark-7 robot giving narration from "center neptune".

I still don't believe this would give them copy write over the images. Yes they can lay claim to the story, the Robotech name and the English dubbing. Even recreating images (animation) to fill in gaps wouldn't be considered new content as it was copying existing content unless it was actually new content. In your example 7-Zark-7 would be new content but the rest wouldn't. Any new animation of the Phoenix for example wouldn't be considered new or original.

If I buy a Ferrari and paint it a new colour and put a fancy mural on it, I could claim the copy write on the art work, but it's still a Ferrari and any one who looks at it will know that as well.

IMO Studio Nue owns the original copy write on the unseen images. Unless HG can produce written consent from them to use and reproduce those images then they don't have a case.

[Requiemking]

slide, on 13 August 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

What exactly does "Dismissed with Prejudice" mean. Not necessarily in this case but in general.

I would take it to mean the Judge thinks the case is a waste of his time and if he see's them again they will be shot. As an Australian this kind of American legal jargon is a bit baffling.

Dismissed with prejudice basically means that not only is the trial thrown out, but the plaintiff(the one who claims to have had their copyright violated) is forbidden from making a copyright claim on the same case. So, for example, not only was Harmony Gold's case against Hasbro thrown out of court, but they are forbidden from making any cases against Hasbro with regards to that particular copyright(in this case Jetfire).

So, if Harmony Gold's case against PGI, HBS, and CGL is dismissed with prejudice, Harmony Gold would not be permitted to make a Copyright claim against those three with regards to the mechs showcased in the original legal documents.

Edited by Requiemking, 13 August 2017 - 07:13 PM.

[Bombast]

Requiemking, on 13 August 2017 - 07:11 PM, said:

So, for example, not only was Harmony Gold's case against Hasbro thrown out of court, but they are forbidden from making any cases against Hasbro with regards to that particular copyright(in this case Jetfire).

Just to clarify, the case wasn't thrown out - It was settled (Though likely not in HGs favor).

slide, on 13 August 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

What exactly does "Dismissed with Prejudice" mean. Not necessarily in this case but in general.

I would take it to mean the Judge thinks the case is a waste of his time and if he see's them again they will be shot. As an Australian this kind of American legal jargon is a bit baffling.

Also to clarify, Dismissing with prejudice means that a definitive result was found, and the lawsuit has been 'answered.' Sometimes this happens when the defendant proves the charges false, either because they were right in an honest dispute, or if the lawsuit was found to be erroneous - 'Prejudice' does not automatically mean the lawsuit was, lacking a better term, 'dishonest.' Or in the case of Hasbro v. HG, they came to a settlement that resolved the issue to everyone's satisfaction.

Dismissed without prejudice means a definitive result was not found. That could be because both parties can no longer continue the lawsuit for some reason, or it could be because the judge has decided there hasn't been enough evidence to conclusive prove who's right in the dispute, but no further information can be offered at that time. In these cases, another lawsuit can be filed at a later date, when more money is available or more information or whatever other fail condition has been resolved.

Edited by Bombast, 13 August 2017 - 07:22 PM.

[slide]

Thanks for those answers.

So if some kind of lawsuit is dismissed with prejudice can that then be used as a precedent for a similar case against another entity.

Ie forgetting about Hasbro's out of court settlement for a minute, if a ruling was found against HG in that case could that then be used as a ammunition by HBS/PGI in this case?