1809 replies to this topic

[M Jordanus Sicarius]

Shadowomega1, on 12 April 2018 - 02:50 PM, said:

Well the Marauder, Warhammer, Archer, and Rifleman do not appear in the release of Battletech. However, if PGI does win this that might allow those mechs to appear in an update, unless there is some stipulation were are not aware of.

IIRC HBS has Marauder and Warhammer models coded and ready to be put into the game at the conclusion of these legal proceedings. So at the very least if PGI wins, those Mechs should definitely be added with an update. And of course there was probably a verbal agreement with HG's lawyers to not put those models into BattleTech as long as the court case is still on (though I would be pleasantly surprised if this was not the case).

evilauthor, on 12 April 2018 - 03:03 PM, said:

Wait, doesn't HG's case against Harebrain being "dismissed with prejudice" and not just "dismissed" mean bad things for HG? I was under the impression that the "with prejudice" part was supposed to be bad for the dismissee.

Short version is that it means HG won't sue them over the same issue. So it's not necessarily bad for HG (because it has nothing to do with whether HG's case against PGI is valid or not), it just means they won't make HBS and Weisman a plaintiff again. Not necessarily a good thing either, though I interpret HG wanting HBS out more as a way for HG to even the odds by eliminating potential resources that could be used against them then PGI/HBS thinking they're going to lose.

Edited by M Jordanus Sicarius, 12 April 2018 - 03:14 PM.

[Alex Morgaine]

What will happen to the non unseen involved in the suit if HG does end up in charge...

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

M Jordanus Sicarius, on 12 April 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

Additionally, HBS being in the lawsuit runs the risk of Paradox getting involved at some point. Which would be major bad news bears for HG, given Paradox's financial and legal resources.

In any event, I wouldn't read into this too much. There are a multitude of reasons why HG would to drop HBS from the defendants, most of them not being dangerous to PGIs case. It's easy to speculate, but everyone has to be aware that there's a multitude of ways this case could go given that HG's legal position is from being on stable ground. And while it's no guarantee, PGI has certainly invested quite a bit of time and money, not only on the legal front, but also on the software front, to develop and maintain the reseen mechs. They aren't going down without a fight.

True, but this also has an impact on HBS's Battletech game... I don't know about you, but I sure want my Marauder, Warhammer, Archer, Rifleman, ect, in the game... and I know, the initial product i'm getting will be missing those iconic 3025 era battlemechs BECAUSE of this suit.

Regardless, I think all of us here, are actually rooting for PGI on this one, and hell, if there's one thing that can bring this community together, it's a common enemy in HG.

[slide]

Alex Morgaine, on 12 April 2018 - 03:15 PM, said:

What will happen to the non unseen involved in the suit if HG does end up in charge...

In theory nothing.

However if I understand it correctly HG's early claims make it seem like they are going after everything that looks like Mecha. Not sure they could actually win that claim because it means anything that even looks remotely like a robot carrying some kind of weapon would be involved and that involves a lot more than just BT.

If HG actually won the rights to everything it would affect a whole lot more than just MWO. Pacific Rim franchise comes to mind.

Essentially if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it isn't necessarily a duck.

[Trystan Thorne]

Chados, on 12 April 2018 - 12:17 PM, said:

As I read all this, the nutshell is:

1) Harebrained Schemes and Jordan Weisman are out of the lawsuit. There has been a settlement, and HG has dismissed them with prejudice, meaning that they can’t re-sue on these facts. Catalyst already is out by defaulting on the complaint and not responding.

Upshot: Forget any chance of Reseeing the Unseen in the new Battletech game. The settlement almost certainly involved Weisman and Harebrained acknowledging that HG owns the Unseen.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I wouldn't be certain if HBS really acknowledged the rights of HG on the Unseen.
They could have just settled on their part of the suit and HG might have done that for strategic reasons as those claims were rather silly and really were hurting HG's credibility.
I believe that seeing the Unseen in Battletech will depend on how the case against PGI is decided.

Chados, on 12 April 2018 - 12:17 PM, said:

2) Tatsunoko is throwing in with HG. Not surprising. They’ve got money at stake. But their declaration leaves something unanswered: Their rights in the Unseen for derivative works. The wrangling over Macross is a red herring there. It isn’t Macross that is at Bar. It is the Unseen. And PGI’s position is that HG can’t defend copyright in something it does not own-the derivative rights.

PGI is alone now. The other parties have defaulted out or settled. I now predict that sometime in the next 180 days, PGI too will settle. The result will be that the Unseen will not be seen in MW5, PGI will publicly acknowledge HG’s ownership of the Unseen, and PGI and HG either will come to some sort of retroactive licensing agreement relating to the Marauder, Archer, Warhammer, Rifleman, and Phoenix Hawk as they currently are portrayed in MWO or PGI will revoke the Unseen from MWO and offer some minimally-viable way to compensate those of us who bought them. I predict the latter, and the remedy to those of us who spent the money will be offered other mech packs or mechs of equal face value.

Yeah, unfortunately I doubt that the case PGI vs HG will end soon and any ending is possible.

Anyway, me just speculating. Maybe over the next few days we'll get more details.

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 12 April 2018 - 03:17 PM, said:

True, but this also has an impact on HBS's Battletech game... I don't know about you, but I sure want my Marauder, Warhammer, Archer, Rifleman, ect, in the game... and I know, the initial product i'm getting will be missing those iconic 3025 era battlemechs BECAUSE of this suit. Regardless, I think all of us here, are actually rooting for PGI on this one, and hell, if there's one thing that can bring this community together, it's a common enemy in HG.

For now I'm glad that the Atlas, Locust & other Mechs are safe in Battletech.
While we might not get Warhammer, Marauder anytime soon (or ever), at least we have the Thunderbolt, Battlemaster, Griffin, Shadowhawk, Wolverine and other iconic Mechs from 3025.
Also if Battletech succeeds, then a Clan addon/sequel is still highly likely (which I would also get, even though I was never the biggest fan of the Clans).

Edited by Trystan Thorne, 12 April 2018 - 05:16 PM.

[Metus regem]

Trystan Thorne, on 12 April 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

.

Anyway, me just speculating. Maybe over the next few days we'll get more details.
For now I'm glad that the Atlas, Locust & other Mechs are safe in Battletech.
While we might not get Warhammer, Marauder anytime soon (or ever), at least we have the Thunderbolt, Battlemaster, Griffin, Shadowhawk, Wolverine and other iconic Mechs from 3025.
Also if Battletech succeeds, then a Clan addon/sequel is still highly likely.

The sad part is, there is precious few other mechs in 3025 that can do what the Warhammer does in the Heavy bracket... really the Orion is about it.

[Trystan Thorne]

Metus regem, on 12 April 2018 - 05:16 PM, said:

The sad part is, there is precious few other mechs in 3025 that can do what the Warhammer does in the Heavy bracket... really the Orion is about it.

The Warhammer is my favourite Mech in BattleTech, but over the years and with the PGI great re-imaging of some of the classics I have no major issues with it missing from the game (though I would like to see it in the game).
Let's hope PGI wins this and let's hope HBS really didn't make a deal that prevents them from using the Warhammer & Marauder in the future no matter who wins.

[MechaBattler]

If PGI is standing alone now. Let's hope their warchest is deep and their will to win is strong.

[Prototelis]

Someone is going to mod in the unseen.

Lets just hope the pack has a fun name like the "Melody Silver" pack.

[Requiemking]

MechaBattler, on 12 April 2018 - 05:50 PM, said:

If PGI is standing alone now. Let's hope their warchest is deep and their will to win is strong.

Well, I doubt HBS would leave them out in the cold. They do have a deal involving PGI's models, so if PGI loses, that could cause issues.

[Adridos]

Well, at least it's now obvious why they made all thos ridiculous claims towards HBS.
They sued them because the game used Marauder and Warhammer. They kept them by the neck while they had nothing better to do and now that theyll actually have to fight a case, they can drop them with prejudice (let them go, clearing the ring for he real right) but still be able to sue them for WHM/MAD if they include them again.

[Zergling]

I'm pretty sure that if PGI loses rights to the existing Warhammer, Marauder, Archer, Rifleman and Phoenix Hawk (Marauder IIC should be fine), PGI would pull them from the game until they can produce new models for them, most likely based on the Project Phoenix versions.

Eg, here's the PP Warhammer:


It'll suck to lose the Unseen art/look again, but TT and MWO will survive it.


Also, were the Battlemaster, Griffin, Shadow Hawk and Wolverine named in this latest lawsuit? If they have to be pulled too, that's a LOOOOOOOOOT of mechs for PGI to remodel.

Edited by Zergling, 12 April 2018 - 10:26 PM.

[Requiemking]

Zergling, on 12 April 2018 - 10:25 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure that if PGI loses rights to the existing Warhammer, Marauder, Archer, Rifleman and Phoenix Hawk (Marauder IIC should be fine), PGI would pull them from the game until they can produce new models for them, most likely based on the Project Phoenix versions.

Eg, here's the PP Warhammer:


It'll suck to lose the Unseen art/look again, but TT and MWO will survive it.


Also, were the Battlemaster, Griffin, Shadow Hawk and Wolverine named in this latest lawsuit? If they have to be pulled too, that's a LOOOOOOOOOT of mechs for PGI to remodel.

Nope. Just the Macross-themed ones. Well, unless you count the garbage HG was trying to sling at HBS. then the Locust and Shadowhawk were brought up.

[Adridos]

Zergling, on 12 April 2018 - 10:25 PM, said:

Also, were the Battlemaster, Griffin, Shadow Hawk and Wolverine named in this latest lawsuit? If they have to be pulled too, that's a LOOOOOOOOOT of mechs for PGI to remodel.

Nah, those are fine since they're from one of Gundam's cousins, Dougram. The rights to them are not as big of an issue because they live in Gundam's gargantuan shadow so Sunrise seems to be okay with their appearance.

[jss78]

"The other unseen" are what I keep reminding myself of, when this legal BS feels depressing.

Regardless of what happens, HBS BT is shipping with great-looking Shadow Hawks, Wolverines, Griffins, Locusts, BattleMasters and Thunderbolts. That's almost half of that old beloved roster right there.

[N0MAD]

So HBS has settled, thought they would, them leaving the unseen out of their game was indication that they were not confident of a positive result in this dispute, besides Weisman or what ever his name is has lost against these guys before in a similar dispute.
IMO, PGI will lose this, the unseen will be removed, i will want my money back ($ refund) i will not settle for other mechs or credit from PGI.

[Zergling]

N0MAD, on 13 April 2018 - 01:02 AM, said:

So HBS has settled, thought they would, them leaving the unseen out of their game was indication that they were not confident of a positive result in this dispute, besides Weisman or what ever his name is has lost against these guys before in a similar dispute.
IMO, PGI will lose this, the unseen will be removed, i will want my money back ($ refund) i will not settle for other mechs or credit from PGI.

As someone that has also spent real money on mechs like the Warhammer, I kinda doubt we'll get a refund.

[Adridos]

Zergling, on 13 April 2018 - 01:22 AM, said:

As someone that has also spent real money on mechs like the Warhammer, I kinda doubt we'll get a refund.

Pretty much.

2 years of lawyer fees for 2 companies spanning 4 individual cases (PGI v HG, HG v PGI, HG v HBS, HG v Catalyst) + additional costs of removing/replacing the mechs + damages + community outrage. Losing this case would seriously hurt PGI's pockets. The money earned by all the unseen purchases would become fraudulent, i.e. your money would go to Harmony Gold (since you paid for their stuff) and PGi would have to pay the "refund" out of their own pocket.

Edited by Adridos, 13 April 2018 - 01:32 AM.

[naterist]

do you think pgi could use the impending release of mw5 to justify a summary judgement, or a dismisal without prejudice or some ****? they can just be like "yo judge, the delays in this case are seriously interfering with our ability to operate as a business, as the unseen are required for mw5 to succeed. lets put this off until hg has something" then just wait for hg's license to expire in 20 20 whatever year?

[Adridos]

naterist, on 13 April 2018 - 01:32 AM, said:

do you think pgi could use the impending release of mw5 to justify a summary judgement, or a dismisal without prejudice or some ****? they can just be like "yo judge, the delays in this case are seriously interfering with our ability to operate as a business, as the unseen are required for mw5 to succeed. lets put this off until hg has something" then just wait for hg's license to expire in 20 20 whatever year?

HBS was in this position from the beginning and they could not take that route. Logically the same holds for PGI. Likewise, they have purposefully not included any mention, picture or even a notion of the Macross unseen being in MW5. The reason is obvious.

Edited by Adridos, 13 April 2018 - 01:37 AM.