1809 replies to this topic

[Horseman]

Marauder3D, on 21 June 2018 - 05:52 AM, said:

ITS OVER!!! THEY SETTLED!
Go to bg.battletech.com for the details, but HG settled. Terms were favorable, and it is being discussed over there. We don't know all the details yet, but things look good, because it is WITH PREJUDICE, meaning HG can't pull this BS again!
LONG LIVE BATTLETECH, THANK YOU PGI!!!!!

Actually now that I looked at the document closely, it doesn't look like a settlement actually took place - if one did, the stipulation should have included the phrasing "pursuant to settlement agreement". Looks far more like HG just tucking their tail between their legs and running away.

[evilauthor]

The Lighthouse, on 21 June 2018 - 06:27 AM, said:

I just wish PGI's actual game development capacity is as good as its legal team's performance really.

Given the kind of "fight" HG put up, I'm pretty sure ANY minimally competent legal team would have performed just as well against them.

The game development team's opposition (aka, hypercritical demanding players) isn't nearly so easy.

[Leone]

"Pursuant to the foregoing stipulation, it is hereby ordered that this action be dismissed with prejudice as to all defendants, without costs or attorneys’ fees assessed to any party."

I 'unno. I'm no lawyer, but that doesn't scream settlement to me. I could be wrong. But at least it seems to be resolved, and I'm hopeful that it resolved in PGI's favour.

~Leone.

[Bud Crue]

Leone, on 21 June 2018 - 07:00 AM, said:

"Pursuant to the foregoing stipulation, it is hereby ordered that this action be dismissed with prejudice as to all defendants, without costs or attorneys’ fees assessed to any party."

I 'unno. I'm no lawyer, but that doesn't scream settlement to me. I could be wrong. But at least it seems to be resolved, and I'm hopeful that it resolved in PGI's favour.

~Leone.

Dismissal with prejudice just means that the parties can’t bring the suit back again. They still can (and in this case apparently did...what a shock /s) settle, and this is just the court’s way of saying “you’re done here and we won’t listen to your crap again”. Even in a circumstance like this however, it doesn’t necessarily signal “the end”. Lots of times a party will just find a different avenue of attack and file a new case under that new basis to get around the prejudicial dismissal; but often the issues remain for all intent and purpose the same. I happens occasionally in emotionally charged cases or when serious money is on the line. I suspect it won’t happen here, as the size of the companies relative to the fees that I suspect they have blown on this boondoggle are not likely to do it again even if a new cause of action could be found. This is truly done. Someone wrote a check (probably a fairly small check, reading between the lines of the progression of this) to get this finished and I am guessing both sides are breathing a sigh of relief that it didn’t cost them more (regardless of what we might think of the participants).

[Lyoto Machida]

Marauder3D, on 21 June 2018 - 05:52 AM, said:

ITS OVER!!! THEY SETTLED!

Go to bg.battletech.com for the details, but HG settled. Terms were favorable, and it is being discussed over there. We don't know all the details yet, but things look good, because it is WITH PREJUDICE, meaning HG can't pull this BS again!

LONG LIVE BATTLETECH, THANK YOU PGI!!!!!

Logged in to say that I hope this is really the end of all this Harmony Gold lawsuit nonsense.

[Marauder3D]

If settlement is the wrong word, you can excuse me for being inaccurate! The news is:

https://drive.google...4TMuwoIn3g/view

check it out, read it. Dismissed with Prejudice! Bathe in the Glory that is PGI's legal team.

[Mochyn Pupur]

Also, don't forget, many licences to use mech imagery/names/names, were only held temporarily, the original owners who created them still hold individual rights which will have to be repurchased/leased to be used by PGI. Hold your breath on certain varients or mechs seeing the light of day.

[Sereglach]

Horseman, on 21 June 2018 - 06:38 AM, said:

Actually now that I looked at the document closely, it doesn't look like a settlement actually took place - if one did, the stipulation should have included the phrasing "pursuant to settlement agreement". Looks far more like HG just tucking their tail between their legs and running away.

HOT DAMN! Just read the document myself. Even the longshot pulled through for CGL. HG was forced to flee with their tail between their legs.

What was it people were saying about "they're settling, HG is going to get paid off" with all the doomsaying? I knew it wouldn't turn out like that. There was just too much evidence against HG. Tail between their legs, indeed. I think this was actually a worse arse-whooping than the Jetfire case vs. Hasbro, in the long run.

PeppaPig, on 21 June 2018 - 08:16 AM, said:

Also, don't forget, many licences to use mech imagery/names/names, were only held temporarily, the original owners who created them still hold individual rights which will have to be repurchased/leased to be used by PGI. Hold your breath on certain varients or mechs seeing the light of day.

Doesn't really matter. The important part is that PGI (and thereby HBS through shared assets) and CGL can now reimagine the classics with their own artwork and there's nothing that HG can do about it. They can make their own artwork that'll be claimed as theirs . . . there's no licensing involved in that . . . just their own copyrights.

[Mochyn Pupur]

Sereglach, on 21 June 2018 - 08:20 AM, said:

HOT DAMN! Just read the document myself. Even the longshot pulled through for CGL. HG was forced to flee with their tail between their legs.

What was it people were saying about "they're settling, HG is going to get paid off" with all the doomsaying? I knew it wouldn't turn out like that. There was just too much evidence against HG. Tail between their legs, indeed. I think this was actually a worse arse-whooping than the Jetfire case vs. Hasbro, in the long run.


Doesn't really matter. The important part is that PGI (and thereby HBS through shared assets) and CGL can now reimagine the classics with their own artwork and there's nothing that HG can do about it. They can make their own artwork that'll be claimed as theirs . . . there's no licensing involved in that . . . just their own copyrights.

Actually, you ARE breaking copyright if the originating creator doesn't relicence to rights to it, classic or otherwise . . learn your contract law

[Chados]

Leone, on 21 June 2018 - 07:00 AM, said:

"Pursuant to the foregoing stipulation, it is hereby ordered that this action be dismissed with prejudice as to all defendants, without costs or attorneys’ fees assessed to any party."

I 'unno. I'm no lawyer, but that doesn't scream settlement to me. I could be wrong. But at least it seems to be resolved, and I'm hopeful that it resolved in PGI's favour.

~Leone.

They settled. All this does is dismiss the lawsuit. We probably will never know the terms but we may see their effect in what happens to the Unseen in MWO and whether they appear in MW5.

[Sereglach]

PeppaPig, on 21 June 2018 - 08:24 AM, said:

Actually, you ARE breaking copyright if the originating creator doesn't relicence to rights to it, classic or otherwise . . learn your contract law

If PGI creates their own artwork for something like, for example, the Stone Rhino, and slap the name on it that belongs to the Battletech IP, then they're not violating anything. They're using their own artwork. It's just like the re-imagining of the classics. PGI has created their own artwork for the Marauder, Rifleman, Phoenix Hawk, etc. with the Battletech IP names slapped on them. Sure, they are inspired by the original unseen, but they're far enough away to be their own thing.

PGI and CGL can do the exact same thing now for all the other previously unseen mechs. They're creating their own new artwork and bestowing upon them the names of units that belong entirely to the Battletech IP. There's nothing that breaks copyright law in that regard.

[Akillius]

Lyoto Machida, on 21 June 2018 - 07:36 AM, said:

Logged in to say that I hope this is really the end of all this Harmony Gold lawsuit nonsense.

Highly doubtful and depending on settlements details/wording its entirely possible they could sue for other reasons or over other mechs. Hence the devil's in the details. :/

Sereglach, on 20 June 2018 - 02:44 PM, said:

As for Catalyst . . .

Recap: Inmediares Productions (IMR) created Catalyst Game Labs (CGL) when IMR got a license for publishing rights to battletech and shadowrun from WizKids (now Topps*).
I only recall PGI, HBS + Jordan Weisman, Catalyst Game Labs as a defendants in the original filing
And I don't recall IMR being named in the original so we can guess CGL sought advice from its parent company IMR and that's why their named on this last bit of legal paperwork?


The historical rabbit hole of parental companies:
WizKids acquired by Topps and transferred IP rights to Topps*
Topps acquired by Tornante Company and Madison Dearborn Partners (50%/50%)
And Tornante Company was created by Vuguru (Michael Eisner) and Rogers Media.
- Unassociated side note: Tornante-Sinclair LLC created by Tornante Company with Sinclair TV Group (50%/50%)

Hmm the parent companies and their other subsidiaries can also be interesting to look at.

[Akillius]

Sereglach, on 21 June 2018 - 08:32 AM, said:

If PGI creates their own artwork for something like, for example, the Stone Rhino, and slap the name on it that belongs to the Battletech IP, then they're not violating anything. They're using their own artwork. It's just like the re-imagining of the classics. PGI has created their own artwork for the Marauder, Rifleman, Phoenix Hawk, etc. with the Battletech IP names slapped on them. Sure, they are inspired by the original unseen, but they're far enough away to be their own thing.

PGI and CGL can do the exact same thing now for all the other previously unseen mechs. They're creating their own new artwork and bestowing upon them the names of units that belong entirely to the Battletech IP. There's nothing that breaks copyright law in that regard.

Already done!
TRO Project Phoenix: allowed the Unseen to have images again for publication.
http://www.sarna.net...Project_Phoenix

[Vanguard836]

Well with Russ’ statement its official. Granted and understandably they can’t go into details, I do wonder what is meant by “classic”

[Sereglach]

Vanguard836, on 21 June 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

Well with Russ’ statement its official. Granted and understandably they can’t go into details, I do wonder what is meant by “classic”

The mechs released as the "classics". The original unseen that PGI has reimagined. Currently this consists of the Phoenix Hawk, Rifleman, Archer, Warhammer, and Marauder. Hopefully this also means that they can add the rest of the classics to the game, as well, since he says that "PGI will continue to use the 'classic' BattleTech designs."

[Der Geisterbaer]

Sereglach, on 21 June 2018 - 09:19 AM, said:

Hopefully this also means that they can add the rest of the classics to the game, as well, since he says that "PGI will continue to use the 'classic' BattleTech designs."

Well, it says "continue to use" and not "expand the use of" ...

[jss78]

Yeah, "classic" is PGI-speak for "unseen", since they first came out with one of the Macross-derived unseen (Marauder). Maybe they wanted to use a new word to emphasize that they are new and original designs, as opposed to the designs removed from TT in the mid-1990s.

That agreed-upon language used by PGI and HG -- "Harmony Gold and Piranha Games are delighted to announce that they have ended their dispute. Piranha Games will continue to use the “classic” BattleTech designs and Harmony Gold and Piranha Games look forward to continuing to serve their respective fans and customers." -- doesn't explicitly state anything about possible FUTURE "classic" designs such as Crusader, Longbow etc. But I guess the implication is that if the current ones are OK, any future ones produced with a similar PGI re-design should be OK too?

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

[Horseman]

Max Rickson, on 21 June 2018 - 08:45 AM, said:

Recap: Inmediares Productions (IMR) created Catalyst Game Labs (CGL) when IMR got a license for publishing rights to battletech and shadowrun from WizKids (now Topps*).
I only recall PGI, HBS + Jordan Weisman, Catalyst Game Labs as a defendants in the original filing
And I don't recall IMR being named in the original so we can guess CGL sought advice from its parent company IMR and that's why their named on this last bit of legal paperwork?

CGL is not a distinct legal entity, it's just an imprint (market name) of IMR.
And they are named in the Second Amended Complaint: https://drive.google...IQk9tH5VAvtiMuI

[Vanguard836]

Keeping the current ones is already great news, if new ones can be put in then sure, good stuff as well....time will tell.