1809 replies to this topic

[BadgerWI]

If all the project phoenix mechs from catalyst are now open does the mean PGI can expand thier "classic" mechs to include the remaining few? Crusader, longbow, Wasp ect...

[Leone]

https://mwomercs.com...38#entry6119238

Well, I for one plan on throwing a party with some Mechwarrior and Battletech friends tonight.

~Leone.

[Requiemking]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 21 June 2018 - 09:46 AM, said:

Well I'll be damned. PGI even requested that CGL get cut out of their trouble zone. Thats interesting.

[Sereglach]

Der Geisterbaer, on 21 June 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

Well, it says "continue to use" and not "expand the use of" ...

It's worth mentioning that the claims against IMR (aka Catalyst Game Labs or CGL) was, in fact, being sued over designs of some of the remaining classics, like the Wasp. If they're released with prejudice from the lawsuit as well, that means those designs are also open for PGI to use.

HG lost on all accounts. There's no settlement, otherwise the document -as pointed out elsewhere- would have said "pursuant of settlement agreement". No settlement is mentioned or acknowledged by the court.

I'd say that, if there was any sort of special agreement, it was to just let the case be dismissed with prejudice and agree that everyone just bears their own costs.

[Shadowomega1]

Requiemking, on 21 June 2018 - 11:22 AM, said:

Well I'll be damned. PGI even requested that CGL get cut out of their trouble zone. Thats interesting.

I said they likely would go on getting CGL out. Yet I had people attack me on that, well guess what, don't diss an expert of the called shot.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Well I never thought I'll ever see the day. This is some fantastic news!

[Chados]

The one thing we KNOW from this is that the Marauder, Rifleman, Warhammer, Archer, and Phoenix Hawk are safe for PGI to use. As for the rest of the Unseen...who knows? If we don’t see them in an upcoming mechpack announcement, we’ll know. But overall, I’d call this a win for PGI.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Chados, on 21 June 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

The one thing we KNOW from this is that the Marauder, Rifleman, Warhammer, Archer, and Phoenix Hawk are safe for PGI to use. As for the rest of the Unseen...who knows? If we don’t see them in an upcoming mechpack announcement, we’ll know. But overall, I’d call this a win for PGI.

The Incubus recently was announced for Junes mech. Since everyone seems to be forgetting that the Incubus was an unreleased unseen, perhaps it was a teaser from PGI that we will be seeing new "classics" returning to MW:O. I might be very well over reacting with speculation here, but I'm almost certain that means we will see at the very least the VMI "classics" return.

I mean, why would they want to risk more legal hassle if they were going to release a brand new redesigned nuseen like the Incubus if it wasn't included in the "classics" agreement? I would actually like to hear someone with any sort of legal background to try to answer this question if possible.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 21 June 2018 - 04:44 PM.

[Vanguard836]

Chados, on 21 June 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

The one thing we KNOW from this is that the Marauder, Rifleman, Warhammer, Archer, and Phoenix Hawk are safe for PGI to use. As for the rest of the Unseen...who knows? If we don’t see them in an upcoming mechpack announcement, we’ll know. But overall, I’d call this a win for PGI.

My sentiments exactly. This is a win !
Wait and see folks.

Edited by Vanguard836, 21 June 2018 - 04:15 PM.

[Sereglach]

Chados, on 21 June 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

The one thing we KNOW from this is that the Marauder, Rifleman, Warhammer, Archer, and Phoenix Hawk are safe for PGI to use. As for the rest of the Unseen...who knows? If we don’t see them in an upcoming mechpack announcement, we’ll know. But overall, I’d call this a win for PGI.

It's worth stating that if other classics don't show up right away to not get upset or lose hope of them showing up. What better way to really drum up hype for MW:5 Mercenaries then to announce that it'll be the first MechWarrior game with ALL of the classics in it?

[RussianWolf]

This doesn't mean that HG lost or that PGI won.

It means they came to an agreement about this case and the courts are allowing them to settle it themselves. HG has agreed not to file this suit again and usually that happens when they get paid. They could however file for a breach of the agreement (if PGI did something stupid that they aren't supposed to) which would have penalties that are predetermined in the agreement usually that could be just as bad or worse than what HG was after in the case.

The big thing is HG didn't lose in court so can sue the next group that comes along with similar content.

Long story short. At best PGI paid HG to allow the content.

I've seen more of these settlements than I care to recall.

[Vanguard836]

RussianWolf, on 21 June 2018 - 06:22 PM, said:

This doesn't mean that HG lost or that PGI won.

It means they came to an agreement about this case and the courts are allowing them to settle it themselves. HG has agreed not to file this suit again and usually that happens when they get paid. They could however file for a breach of the agreement (if PGI did something stupid that they aren't supposed to) which would have penalties that are predetermined in the agreement usually that could be just as bad or worse than what HG was after in the case.

The big thing is HG didn't lose in court so can sue the next group that comes along with similar content.

Long story short. At best PGI paid HG to allow the content.

I've seen more of these settlements than I care to recall.

Considering that in the past every suit resulted in the removal of the unseens, this is a win, may not be the win some wanted but it's a win no less.

[Sereglach]

RussianWolf, on 21 June 2018 - 06:22 PM, said:

This doesn't mean that HG lost or that PGI won.

It means they came to an agreement about this case and the courts are allowing them to settle it themselves. HG has agreed not to file this suit again and usually that happens when they get paid. They could however file for a breach of the agreement (if PGI did something stupid that they aren't supposed to) which would have penalties that are predetermined in the agreement usually that could be just as bad or worse than what HG was after in the case.

The big thing is HG didn't lose in court so can sue the next group that comes along with similar content.

Long story short. At best PGI paid HG to allow the content.

I've seen more of these settlements than I care to recall.

There's one HUGE flaw in this logic that has been pointed out multiple times now. IF there was an actual settlement document (sealed record or not) then the docket to dismiss the case would say "in pursuant of agreed upon settlement" or other such similar legalese. That is NOT there in the court docket.

Therefore, if there was any sort of agreement, it was likely the agreement that everyone would just eat their own legal costs. PGI certainly had the evidence to take HG to task and utterly trounce them in court (or get their motion to dismiss with prejudice); and then demand compensation and legal fees among the judges awards (not to mention whatever penalties the judge decided to throw at HG given the Rule 11 threats). However, that would take a great deal of more resources and time to be expended upfront, when all PGI wants to do is reimagine the classics and have HG stay out of it.

The language of the court docket and the official announcement from Russ prove that it's very clearly a win for PGI and Battletech as a whole.

The case against CGL, via their parent company IMR, being dropped with prejudice -in order to prevent confusion- is telling as well. HG was, in fact, going after CGL for all of their reimagined classics . . . and they had done pretty much all of them by the time the lawsuit hit. Therefore HG basically admitted -in order to prevent confusion- that they're not going to go after the Battletech IP for any reimagined classics in the future. That, in turn, makes this a HUGE win for the whole Battletech IP.

Edited by Sereglach, 21 June 2018 - 07:14 PM.

[DFM]

Bud Crue, on 21 June 2018 - 07:24 AM, said:

Dismissal with prejudice just means that the parties can’t bring the suit back again. They still can (and in this case apparently did...what a shock /s) settle, and this is just the court’s way of saying “you’re done here and we won’t listen to your crap again”. Even in a circumstance like this however, it doesn’t necessarily signal “the end”. Lots of times a party will just find a different avenue of attack and file a new case under that new basis to get around the prejudicial dismissal; but often the issues remain for all intent and purpose the same. I happens occasionally in emotionally charged cases or when serious money is on the line. I suspect it won’t happen here, as the size of the companies relative to the fees that I suspect they have blown on this boondoggle are not likely to do it again even if a new cause of action could be found. This is truly done. Someone wrote a check (probably a fairly small check, reading between the lines of the progression of this) to get this finished and I am guessing both sides are breathing a sigh of relief that it didn’t cost them more (regardless of what we might think of the participants).

Just would like to add that the "with prejudice" part means that HG cannot sue over the related mechs already included in this case. Nothing more than that. They could fire up the BS lawsuit machine if PGI released a Wasp/stinger or any other "unseen" macross based design. Probably wouldn't, as we know the route this is likely to take...

[DFM]

RussianWolf, on 21 June 2018 - 06:22 PM, said:

*Snip*
HG has agreed not to file this suit again and usually that happens when they get paid.

The big thing is HG didn't lose in court so can sue the next group that comes along with similar content.

I disagree with the first part, and totally agree with the 2nd.

I highly doubt HG got paid in the HASBRO jetfire settlement. That one was more lopsided than this one was and it still ended up with a neutral looking settlement and dismissal with prejudice.

[darqsyde]

If, if, PGI now have the ability to create the remaining "classic" Mechs(Wasp/Stinger, Crusader, Longbow, Ostseries, etc), I would not expect to hear anything definitive about them until Mechcon.

I would however, expect some serious teasers.

Also, congrats PGI, buy your lawyers a nice steak dinner, and I think I'll go buy something from the Store.

[Trystan Thorne]

I'll remain cautiously optimistic for now.
This is definitely a win for PGI and BattleTech as a whole, even if they can't add new redesigns of the not yet released unseen.

My hope though is, that HG has realised that they have no leg to stand on against BattleTech and has ended the court case to be able to sue other companies if they use similar designs, but will leave BT alone in future.

Either way, well done PGI!
Yes, I do criticize MWO occasionally (not so much recently as now I think the game is good), but I was always happy that you guys did keep BattleTech/MechWarrior alive when no one wanted to touch the license with a ten foot pole.
This could potentially though be the best thing yet you guys did for BattleTech.

[Chados]

Sereglach, on 21 June 2018 - 07:13 PM, said:

There's one HUGE flaw in this logic that has been pointed out multiple times now. IF there was an actual settlement document (sealed record or not) then the docket to dismiss the case would say "in pursuant of agreed upon settlement" or other such similar legalese. That is NOT there in the court docket.

Therefore, if there was any sort of agreement, it was likely the agreement that everyone would just eat their own legal costs. PGI certainly had the evidence to take HG to task and utterly trounce them in court (or get their motion to dismiss with prejudice); and then demand compensation and legal fees among the judges awards (not to mention whatever penalties the judge decided to throw at HG given the Rule 11 threats). However, that would take a great deal of more resources and time to be expended upfront, when all PGI wants to do is reimagine the classics and have HG stay out of it.

Well, we don’t know this. We do know that PGI’s official statement confirmed a settlement, part of the terms of which allowed the Alpha Lance mechs and the Phoenix Hawk to stay in MWO. We do not know whether that was because of the strength of PGI’s litigating position or whether PGI disgorged significant profit from those mechs to mollify Harmony Gold. And the dismissal with prejudice only means that HG can’t sue PGI and CGL (notably, Jordan Weisman and Harebrained aren’t part of this settlement) for use of those specific Unseen. It’s not carte blanche to use all the Unseen across the board, unless that too is a part of the agreement we don’t know about. And we won’t know that for some time yet. The Incubus may be an indication or it may not. If you see the Longbow, Wasp, or Stinger suddenly in MWO or in MW5 demos, you’ll know.

[BadgerWI]

So...because HG was not fully defeated HBS still has to abide by whatever agreement that they had with HG?

[Fox the Apprentice]

BadgerWI, on 22 June 2018 - 04:48 AM, said:

So...because HG was not fully defeated HBS still has to abide by whatever agreement that they had with HG?

Depends on the wording of both agreements.