70 replies to this topic

[- World Eater -]

I'm enjoying them so far. ATMs and RACs need work, though.

I have not tried the heavy gauss yet but it would be fun to boat two of them (I know it's not practical).

[Ripnfly]

Machine Guns need to be scarier then what they are, if someone is point-blanking you with 4 to 6 Heavy machine guns you should die VERY VERY FAST.

Lights or mediums in MG builds should counter assaults very very hard if they get their back at point blank. Each MG should double is DPS on cored structure. The damage seems ok on armor. The survival skill tree should not reduce the crits of machine guns.

At some point weight and lack of mobility needs to be able to be punished its rarely the case now with 60-80 remaining hit point cored assaults really not being as scared as they should be for their back. Fast move mechs have to take massive risks to get to that position in the first place

[R Valentine]

Light Gauss needs the charge removed. As is, it is inferior to regular Gauss in every way. 2 Light Gauss is only 16 damage. 4 is 32. That's even worse than 4 LB-10X while being heavier. They're pitiful.

[Zenthious]

The only weapon I'm not real keen on is the RAC2. It seems like you might as well be running a UAC2. Other then that, I'm loving all the new weapons and available combos.
RAC5 + LBX10 just feels like a nasty punisher. I've had some good FP rounds with that combo.
Heavy Gauss + Heavy PPC is another combo I recommend.
I like the way the IS UAC20 works as well. The velocity seems better and the burst seems shorter than the clan version. It suffers in other ways, though.
Light PPC is also welcome addition. It's good to have something in between the 6 and 2 ton range that really fits well on the light mech and adds range.
On the clan side I'm using a lot of heavy lasers and ATM's. ATM is absolutely awesome. I love the higher velocity, lower trajectory arc of the missiles, and the bonus damage at optimum range.
Heat management is definitely a much bigger deal now than it was before all the way around. Yes heavy lasers have more heat, but the added damage and larger overall firepower makes it worth it.

Edited by Zenthious, 25 July 2017 - 07:57 AM.

[Jun Watarase]

4 tons of ATM ammo with max ammo bonuses only gives me 20 volleys from 2x ATM-9s, so you cant really waste them at range. At 270m, its way too easy for someonet o get within your min range especially with cover...maps like vitric force for example render ATMs useless. The one thing that they seem good at is killing lights at close range when they aren't leg humping you. SRMs seem better in general though. You also have to take an active probe or get shut down when an ECM mech wanders near you. Too situational in general.

I think the problem is that you just dont have enough ammo to fire them as you close in, which kind of defeats the point of having range dependant damage profiles. IIRC, missiles were the only thing that didnt get any kind of increased ammo per ton compared to the tabletop version.

At 400m or so, ATMs lose hard to direct fire...pretty much dead weight in the typical poking game. So again, the range dependant profiles are useless unless someone just happens to be in the open. Cant even fire over cover like LRMs can.

Heavy med lasers vs med lasers is largely a problem of the range...at 450m, you can run hot and reverse behind cover. At 270m, that is a lot riskier because someone can easily round the corner and kill you while you are too hot to fire back. And 2x med pulse are obviously better than the heavy large laser (the extra range doesnt make up for everything else).

[ChapeL]

Reading everyone's lists: I'm glad opinions are all over the place... maybe they are on to something.

[Lostdragon]

ATMs are situationally very good and I have enjoyed them the most because they are both challenging and rewardi g. They synergize well with Light TAG and Light Active Probe. I have been running a Mad Dog with 4x ATM 6 and it is brutally effective if you can position well. One volley can kill lights, cripple mediums, and take most of the CT armor off heavies and assaults. I have one shot a couple of heavies through rear armor.

Against people who know how to counter them ATMs wind up being a liability. The minimum range is brutal because there is such a small goldilocks zone you are trying to get into for 3 damage/missile and would be much better as a ramp down like CLRMs. AMS can wipe out a large percentage of even a big volley, missiles probably need a bit more health so it is not such a hard counter. Firing them at long range is pointless, even if they somehow manage to hit you are doing 1/3 damage you could and effectively wasting ammo.

RACs are what I was most looking forward to and they are really cool to use but they are pretty disappointing when it comes to actually being effective. They need a bit of a buff to be worth taking over the IS UACs, which are quite good.

[Aiden Skye]

Not too many new toys on the clan side.
Micro lasers seems rather pointless. ATMs are interesting but incredibly situational. I haven't had any luck with them so far with all the AMS running rampant.

Machine guns are still eh in all editions.Heavy small lasers seem pointless, heavy mediums are decent if you don't have a lot of tonnage...but me personally I rather not give up so much range. Heavy large I've had the most luck with. LAMS, light tag and bap are nice for non dedicated missile builds.

[Karl the Plumber]

ChapeL, on 25 July 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

Reading everyone's lists: I'm glad opinions are all over the place... maybe they are on to something.

I think you're right here. When half the community says something's OP and the other half says it's useless you know it's probably working.

[davoodoo]

Karl the Plumber, on 25 July 2017 - 02:17 PM, said:

I think you're right here. When half the community says something's OP and the other half says it's useless you know it's probably working.

you know what happens when 2 ppl write directly opposing opinions?? at least 1 of them is wrong...

https://yourlogicalf...m/middle-ground

Edited by davoodoo, 25 July 2017 - 02:26 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Machine Guns need to be scarier then what they are, if someone is point-blanking you with 4 to 6 Heavy machine guns you should die VERY VERY FAST.

machine guns are already extremely scary for what they are

they only weigh like .25 to .5 tons

and they generate zero heat

[The6thMessenger]

ThoseWhoFearTomorrow, on 25 July 2017 - 07:36 AM, said:

I have not tried the heavy gauss yet but it would be fun to boat two of them (I know it's not practical).

I'm not touching the stuff till they remove the reticle shake and increased range to 270m - 1350m cause really i'm better off with a lighter AC20. Screen shake is fine, but reticle shake isn't.

[Khobai]

Quote

270m - 1350m

heavy gauss should be 22 damage and 570m-1140m with 6s cooldown and 1s chargeup and no reticle shake

but limit it to only being able to charge or fire 1 at a time

its never going to work as a quasi-brawling weapon. it wont compete with autocannons in those range brackets. it needs gauss range.

best way to fix it is turn it into improved heavy gauss

Edited by Khobai, 25 July 2017 - 03:18 PM.

[davoodoo]

The6thMessenger, on 25 July 2017 - 03:07 PM, said:

I'm not touching the stuff till they remove the reticle shake and increased range to 270m - 1350m cause really i'm better off with a lighter AC20. Screen shake is fine, but reticle shake isn't.

I can live with screenshake, but gauss will never be good brawling weapon.

funny thing is that hgauss in tt got 6/13/20 range while regular gauss got 7/15/22 so 60m more optimal range

i can understand that pgi wants to represent this gun inhrerent dropoff but ffs at least medium range instead of short... 390-900 so at regular gauss optimal range it will have only 11.5dmg...

Khobai, on 25 July 2017 - 03:16 PM, said:

heavy gauss should be 22 damage and 570m-1140m with 6s cooldown and 1s chargeup and no reticle shake

thats improved heavy gauss, separate weapon.

Edited by davoodoo, 25 July 2017 - 03:16 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

thats improved heavy gauss, separate weapon.

and its exactly what heavy gauss needs to be

because it will never be able to compete with autocannons

[davoodoo]

Khobai, on 25 July 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

and its exactly what heavy gauss needs to be

because it will never be able to compete with autocannons

at 180m, yeah it wont, its a joke.

at 390m i could find a use for it.

[Mcgral18]

Ripnfly, on 25 July 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

Lights or mediums in MG builds should counter assaults very very hard if they get their back at point blank. Each MG should double is DPS on cored structure. The damage seems ok on armor. The survival skill tree should not reduce the crits of machine guns.

They already do

Nearly Triples the LMG, doubles the MG, and 1.77 HMG

[Gas Guzzler]

Jun Watarase, on 24 July 2017 - 11:38 PM, said:

I thought the entire point of not giving clan ER PPCs 15 PPFLD was because it would be OP? They actually gave heavy PPCs 15 PPFLD?

Well Clan ER PPCs have 810m range, weigh 6 tons, and take up two slots with a velocity of 1500 m/s. Heavy PPCs have a range of 540m, min range at 90, weigh 10 tons and take up 4 slots with a velocity of 1200 m/s. Much larger investment and there are some downsides.

[The6thMessenger]

Khobai, on 25 July 2017 - 03:16 PM, said:

heavy gauss should be 22 damage and 570m-1140m with 6s cooldown and 1s chargeup and no reticle shake

but limit it to only being able to charge or fire 1 at a time

its never going to work as a quasi-brawling weapon. it wont compete with autocannons in those range brackets. it needs gauss range.

best way to fix it is turn it into improved heavy gauss

Well, i guess kind of, I agree. PGI didn't seem to be above retcon.

But if there's supposed to be different distinct weaponry, then the HGR could compensate with better damage retention to range. Previously i made an error, but i do believe that the weapon would still be fine doing 25 damage at 0m-270m, 20 damage at 540m which is already better over the AC20, 15 damage at 810m, 10 damage at 1080m, 5 damage at 1350m, and then zeroes out to 1620m.

My philosophy is that weapons are at least okay to shoot at 150% of their optimal range, cause that still retains 50% of their damage. Doing below 12.5 damage of the HGR would be terribly inefficient, and considering that it has lower velocity than the GR, it's also hard to do. So at that range, +945m, it would be a waste already, and so i wouldn't worry about it.

We could reapproach the distribution as 0m-270m - 405m - 540m - 675m - 810m - 945m. It would still do 20 damage at 405m, which is already better than the AC20.

It's not supposed to brawl, but it is supposed to be powerful.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 25 July 2017 - 05:11 PM.

[Anjian]

Just starting to get my toes wet on the new weapons. The skill tree makes it enormous work though. So far I have configured a Firebrand with nothing but two UAC10s and I am loving it.