70 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Aggravated Assault Mech, on 26 July 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

My most played.

LRM Maulers are probably the most common simply because that would encompass pretty much every failfit yard sale Mauler in existence.

Yeah, sorry, my b. Between watching B33f get ganked because of the Stealth Armor bug and reading the post, I read "the most played" and not "my most played."

[Hit the Deck]

Khobai, on 26 July 2017 - 06:56 PM, said:

...
ATMs should be mildly effective at all ranges (short, medium, and long), just not better than SRMs at short range or better than LRMs at long range. ATMs should give up the damage of more specialized weapons in exchange for being effective at all ranges. They should be a jack of all trades and master of none weapon.
...

ATMs are short-mid range weapons if you look at their TT stats because they become less efficient as the range goes greater.

But if you mean that you want to suggest making them like what you envision then I don't have any problem with that.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 26 July 2017 - 07:09 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

ATMs are short-mid range weapons if you look at their TT stats because they become less efficient as the range goes greater.

ATMs are all three in tabletop. They get an ammo type for short range, medium range, and long range.

MWO doesnt have ammo switching though and has to average all three of those ammo types into one ammo type.

So the result should be something thats effective at all three ranges.

[Verantesai]

Jun Watarase, on 24 July 2017 - 11:38 PM, said:

I thought the entire point of not giving clan ER PPCs 15 PPFLD was because it would be OP? They actually gave heavy PPCs 15 PPFLD?

well yeah but the Heavy PPC's have way more drawbacks, 4 crit slots, 10 tons, standard PPc range, and 90m minimum range on top of their increased heat vs Clan's 2 crit slots, 6 tons, same heat, much further range, no minimum range and 10 pinpoint with 2.5 splash.

As it stands Clan's have the most efficient PPC, but the IS get more specialized and varied PPCs.

[Hit the Deck]

Khobai, on 26 July 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

...
So the result should be something thats effective at all three ranges.

No, it's because of their number of missile and ammo/ton.

[Khobai]

Quote

As it stands Clan's have the most efficient PPC, but the IS get more specialized and varied PPCs.

Im not convinced. Because id gladly trade CERPPC for HPPC. 15 PPFLD and shorter range for a couple extra tons is way better than 10 PPFLD and a velocity thats too slow to actually be useful at ER ranges. and splash damage is damn useless at least 70% of the time. Also CERPPCs have a 20 PPFLD ghost heat limit, not 30 like the HPPC.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Khobai, on 26 July 2017 - 08:52 PM, said:

Im not convinced. Because id gladly trade CERPPC for HPPC. 15 PPFLD and shorter range for a couple extra tons is way better than 10 PPFLD and a velocity thats too slow to actually be useful at ER ranges. and splash damage is damn useless at least 70% of the time. Also CERPPCs have a 20 PPFLD ghost heat limit, not 30 like the HPPC.

But Khobai, you can have HPPC.

You just have to give up your 2 slot DHS to get it.

[Zergling]

Aggravated Assault Mech, on 26 July 2017 - 09:11 PM, said:

But Khobai, you can have HPPC.

You just have to give up your 2 slot DHS to get it.

And 50% weight engines that can survive side torso loss. And 7 slot endo. And 7 slot ferro.

[AssaultPig]

Khobai, on 26 July 2017 - 06:56 PM, said:

Well the only other option would be to give STD engines a massive buff

If youre going to force people to take STD engines with LBX20 and Heavy Gauss, then STD engines should be every bit as good as LFE.

Either way a buff needs to happen. Either LBX20/Heavy Gauss need to to be 10 slots so you can take LFE with them. Or STD engines need to be every bit as good as LFE.



MRMs and ATMs should be fundamentally different IMO

MRMs should peak in effectiveness at medium range and they shouldnt be better than SRMs at short range.

ATMs should be mildly effective at all ranges (short, medium, and long), just not better than SRMs at short range or better than LRMs at long range. ATMs should give up the damage of more specialized weapons in exchange for being effective at all ranges. They should be a jack of all trades and master of none weapon.

Essentially ATMs should be less effective than SRMs at short range and less effective than LRMs at long range but more effective than if you took SRMs and LRMs together. Thats the proper balancing point for ATMs.

the problem is that unless you introduce some sort of falloff/buildup mechanic for LRMs, this medium range window doesn't really exist. ATMs aren't particularly more efficient than LRMs and their slightly-lower minimum range isn't enough to offset their damage falloff. Their higher velocity could be a selling point, but at the distance you actually want to be firing ATMs the difference in travel time is negligible. I really wanted to like ATMs but it just isn't clear to me why I'd take them over some equivalent number of c-lrm.

Edited by AssaultPig, 26 July 2017 - 11:04 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

I really wanted to like ATMs but it just isn't clear to me why I'd take them over some equivalent number of c-lrm.

because LRMs cant be used at short range.

the whole point of ATMs is to be a standalone weapon system that can be used at any range.

Quote

the problem is that unless you introduce some sort of falloff/buildup mechanic for LRMs, this medium range window doesn't really exist.

ATMs should have similar damage to LRMs but much better velocity at midrange which should make them better than LRMs at midrange. ATMs should also have a tighter spread.

LRMs should only be better at long range. which is why LRMs should have a gradual acceleration upto max speed.

Edited by Khobai, 26 July 2017 - 11:14 PM.

[AssaultPig]

LRM can be used at short range! Clan LRM are effective damage at ~150m or so, only 30-60m further than ATMs.

ATM's velocity advantage is pretty meaningless because you aren't really shooting ATM at anything more than 500m or so away, and LRMs cover that distance nearly as quickly.

at minimum they should get rid of the minimum distance on ATMs