128 replies to this topic

[ImperialKnight]

buy this
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e3be12c1e1933f1

goes fast, jump capable, perfect hardpoints (high mounted, near cockpit, perfect convergence), teaches torso twisting with double shield arms, good hit boxes for rolling damage, teaches fire heat management (you'll run fairly hot, but easy to manage, you'll get about 2 warnings before getting a shutdown if you fire continuously)

[Koniving]

knightsljx, on 29 July 2017 - 07:29 AM, said:

buy this
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e3be12c1e1933f1

goes fast, jump capable, perfect hardpoints (high mounted, near cockpit, perfect convergence), teaches torso twisting with double shield arms, good hit boxes for rolling damage, teaches fire heat management (you'll run fairly hot, but easy to manage, you'll get about 2 warnings before getting a shutdown if you fire continuously)

That design... relies HEAVILY on the ability to hit moving targets on a mech with no skill tree initially that at base level 'no tree' has the torso twist speed of a tranquilized Rhino.

I just got out of a match using a Catapult Jester with twin Heavy PPC, STD 300 engine, agility quirks out the wazoo and I still had trouble hitting a Locust 200 meters in front of me because it was just too damn fast -- even while it was running around in circles around another mech. I resorted to my lasers to make the kill after several failed attempts.

In a similar but less agile K2 build using heavy MGs and SPLs as backup, I barely had any hope of leading the target enough to make the hit so I ended up using the HMG and SPLs at their longest and weakest possible ranges to disable an Arctic Cheetah's leg before being able to bring the HPPCs into actual play.

Against heavies, assaults and even slower mediums the HPPCs will work wonders! So if you can make the hits, it's a great idea because that thing does big damage. But it lacks any defense against lighter, "cheaper" pests that a new player's likely to encounter in tier 5 and tier 4. That's the sort of thing that might make a player quit in frustration.

I'm not sure that should be a first mech suggestion. Perhaps a second or third, or at least with some sort of anti-light defense.

[Koniving]

Just so I can personally make sure I'm not talking out of my rear since the last time I genuinely ran a Shadow Hawk was while they were heavily nerfed... (sometime before the engine desync), I'm gonna run that rig asap to see if I might be wrong.

To do that, I have here a pure stock, untouched, unskilled Shadow Hawk 2nd generation Kurita.

And after converting -- I had to sell a number of old stores of weapons that I don't use much of these days to net close to 4 million.



Didn't feel right bringing it out in Basic Green and I don't want to chuck up any success to being ignored, so...
Buc pattern + Kurita colors:

(....terrible color combination on this pattern, but meh.)

And confirmation that I have no skillz.

So lets try this thing out.

Edited by Koniving, 29 July 2017 - 08:31 AM.

[Koniving]

So, first match in the field:
Polar Highlands + Incursion.

My very first shot was a hit.
My second was not, he saw me trying to line up my HPPCs and literally stopped dead in his tracks, causing me to miss entirely since you can't hit a moving target without leading, even when they are going fairly slow.

I did some poptarting, I did some ranged fighting. Did some potshots (was really surprised when I hit a Raven and got a load of smoke, but when I found it later it was limping and I failed to hit it, so I lined up and fired and missed due to the limping motion and then it shut down right as I led ahead to counter for the limp, causing me to miss yet again!)

Eventually combat devolved a bit to this.


At no point did I feel agile enough to torso twist to block fire, instead when a King Crab was starting to come my way after peeking my head out...

I gave a single shot then I bolted in the opposite direction and told the nearest "Daishi" about the situation. Said Dire Wolf quickly made short work of the problem for me to allow me to keep harassing enemies. In the end most of the damage done to me came from myself, and I got 138 damage dealt. Some the hits I managed to get were within a minimum damage range, meaning if the enemy got close enough the twin HPPCs were worthless.

Some might see that as pretty good considering, but then I'm left to remind you that this is how good my accuracy once was before all these quirks changing the speed of things...

In other words I would like to think I'm pretty good with my aim and experience, but the rig in its initial state leaves a lot to be desired for a first mech.

TL;DR:
(I don't think it's bad, actually had a bit of fun in it as it reintroduced me to a playstyle I haven't done since 2015, so after I flash level it with the 200,000+ GSP I have from the 250+ mechs of history, I think I might keep something similar to this build. But it's no money maker, and it certainly isn't for everyone so I stand behind what I said, I wouldn't recommend it as a first mech.)

Before sealing this post I thought I would try it for a few more rounds without touching the skill tree. This brought up an attempt to 'torso twist' to deflect damage using the arms, but I found no matter how I tried I couldn't get the truly intended result the way I can with other mechs. Then I tried torso twisting while not under fire and found out why...

It still has the poor torso twist ability of ancient nerf days.
Try Knight's build in a HBK 4P (with some obvious changes) for a really good time. (Video is something similar) Sure the arms might not be as protective, but at least it's both affordable and practical right out of the box. Having the PPCs by the head is all well and good, but if Iw as doing this as a first 'Mech design, I'd have to say I'd shove it on a Griffin instead. Almost identical cost investment, identical merits to those described, but "twisty" enough to be able to practice torso twisting out of the box & the advantage of arm aiming (which I must say isn't a new player skill but one cannot stress enough the advantage of arm movement versus torso movement).

Edited by Koniving, 29 July 2017 - 12:10 PM.

[GreyMatter51]

I think I am narrowing my first mech to either the Jagermech or the Rifleman. I think I want to start off with Ballistics as my primary and judging from the bonuses on these 2 mechs, it looks like most of their variants favor them. From what little I have seen on the forums about it, the Rifleman seems to be considered a relatively weak mech for a heavy but I am thinking going that route may help me learn what not to do a little bit? Or is the Rifleman that weak compared to the Jagermech?

[Mechwarrior4670152]

GreyMatter51, on 29 July 2017 - 03:33 PM, said:

I think I am narrowing my first mech to either the Jagermech or the Rifleman. I think I want to start off with Ballistics as my primary and judging from the bonuses on these 2 mechs, it looks like most of their variants favor them. From what little I have seen on the forums about it, the Rifleman seems to be considered a relatively weak mech for a heavy but I am thinking going that route may help me learn what not to do a little bit? Or is the Rifleman that weak compared to the Jagermech?

The Rifleman is smaller than the Jagermech.

This can be an advantage (smaller target) but since a fair chunk of the variants for both use ballistics a lot, it can also be a weakness. (To say nothing of the less armor, though 5 tons of mech-weight do not make that much a difference there)

I like them both - though the Rifleman seems to do energy builds better.

[Koniving]

I am really upset that my firefox crashed about halfway through my post.

The long and short of what I had already is that their stock armor sucks because they are anti-air mechs -- a factor that doesn't matter in MWO since you can put as much armor as you want within the limits for 60 and 65 tonners respectively. They are identical in concept, though the 65 ton Jagermech has its energy weapons much lower in the torso, this is because the lasers are meant exclusively as an anti-mech/tank defense and so that the ammo bins could be stored high up to quickly feed the very hungry autocannons. Riflemen store their ammo much lower since their primary weapons are the lasers with the autocannons they carry merely serving as a low-heat backup should they be pushed beyond their thermal endurance and still need to fire.

That, of course, is all lore fluff which this game doesn't and ultimately probably couldn't take advantage of. What does matter is that these 'Mechs serve as weapons platforms. Even so PGI randomly gave them a lot of structure buffs which you can take advantage of in the Survival skill tree. It is very common for some to max out the firepower and mobility skill trees instead to be a rapidly moving mobile weapons platform (aka glass cannon). Some capitalize on consumables for the added fire support of artillery and airstrikes or UAV support.

Others jack into the Sensors to rapidly find out enemy health situations, advanced zoom to help with long range sniper support using Gauss Rifles/ER PPCs, Seismic Sensor to detect enemies sneaking up on their firing positions (so they can wait with their guns trained on the enemy before the enemy even comes around the corner) and to maximize "Radar Derp" so that they can quickly break enemy target locks when they creep back into their fox holes.

Still more might dive head-first into the Operations tree, to maximize their heat threshold (maximum heat before shutting down, very important for twin AC/20 builds or multiple PPC builds), increase their cooling speed which is infinitely superior to reducing the weapon heat, hasten 'restart' times if they do shutdown from overheat as well as a number of other things.

Between the two, some might call the Rifleman weak because energy builds rely on "Sticking your head" out for upwards of a second to a second and a half without any skill trees. That can be greatly reduced with the "laser duration" skills in the Firepower tree or by using PPCs instead of lasers. A Jagermech can funnel a lot of damage very quickly if rigged to do so thanks to autocannons and how they work in MWO. This said, I always built my Jagermechs with a high damage over time focus so honestly the Rifleman is superior in many ways for how I play (since lasers fire and eventually need to rest for a length of time, while autocannons just keep going and going and going and going and going and going...

and going and going and going..

For example, this is more or less taking advantage of the Atlas as a team's tank, using a DPS-oriented suppression build on a Jagermech.

Today I would possibly use some RAC-5s, or some AC/5s supplemented with RAC-2s. RACs do some serious damage though admittedly they aren't as front loaded as regular ACs, or as reliable.

Interestingly when I first started to read the question, the first enemy I saw in the match I went in right after was a Jagermech sporting twin RAC/5s. Since it was all he was carrying, he might have menaced me but then he jammed and promptly paid for it with his life against my twin ER ML, twin Streak SRM-2, Streak SRM-4, and MRM-10 Shadowhawk 2D2.

The main thing to avoid doing is getting too close if you can help it. There was a day when this didn't matter so much if you had some flamers but flamers changed (to be useful but NOT blinding), so this isn't possible anymore.


My personal rig for a little while was this:


Sadly Riflemen came out during a period where I was unable to make videos so I have no videos to share, I do however have 3 Riflemen including the hero and I actually use them more than Jagermechs.

My JM6-DD is still using an identical build as the Gauss 4 MG rig (though I may change the MG type in the near future and may swap the Gauss Rifles for RAC/5s if I get bored). Very much like my rig though. My JM6-S sports twin AC/5 twin AC/2 still after all these years. My JM6-A is under an experimental phase with twin MRM-10s, twin LRM-10s, twin AC/5s and twin MLs.
Firebrand my Jagermech hero hasn't been touched since before the skill tree changeover but it has twin AC/5s and twin large lasers.

My Riflemen sport: My 3C is currently mothballed (252 mechs, not enough engines to go around), but my energy only 5D sports a large laser, twin PPCs and 4 medium lasers and is one of my money makers. The LK (hero; don't remember what the full name is) sports twin LB-10X, twin MG and twin medium lasers (all arm weapons; I didn't use the last two energy hardpoints due to being torso weapons and thus incompatible with my preferred way of fighting) and is skill treed to tank-like-a-*****-truckin'-beast. Which it does.

As for how I use my Rifleman LK, I use it just like this old JM6-S build of mine minus the flamers.

[Koniving]

For maximum ballistic potential from either chassis...

You want the Rifleman 3C for 4 ballistic hardpoints.
The JM6-DD for 6 ballistic hardpoints (comes with an XL 260 engine which helps when you want to boat ACs).

[GreyMatter51]

Wow Koniving, that first video is the best and you make it look so easy . Every time you fired the ac's i was laughing so hard at how fast the enemy mechs were dropping.

[Koniving]

GreyMatter51, on 29 July 2017 - 06:55 PM, said:

Wow Koniving, that first video is the best and you make it look so easy . Every time you fired the ac's i was laughing so hard at how fast the enemy mechs were dropping.

Just remember: A team of four working together. Stalker on LRMs, Atlas tanking but deadly at close range, my DPS build and the other Jagermech with quad AC/5s fired all at once (so each hit was 20 damage every 1.5 seconds). Yes the bullet spam can make short work of some enemies but it was the teamwork that made them drop like flies. Also that was before quirks.

Ballistic weapons can lead to very fast kills provided you can hit your enemy.

Here's another Jager vid of mine, this one includes the use of Advanced zoom. Butcher several tankier mechs.

And here's a Mauler with twin LB-10X and twin AC/5s, no skill tree and brand new with my first run on one.
It is time skipped to around my first kill, and I get a number more kills too. You might noice at the start of where I have it, there's a few other assaults and we're all exchanging places, this is a technique called sharing damage which helps assaults live longer by trading places. Here's the technique demonstrated as a Stalker among multiple Atlases (my aim was terrible; was mousing from a couch arm).

When you buy your first mech, be sure to account for the 1.5 million you need for double heatsinks on most IS mechs. The Jm6-DD has the XL engine stock, it isn't fast but at the discount XL engines are at when they come with mechs, who cares? Just be sure to pack some firepower. As an alternative to the RAC/5s, my twin Guass quad MG JM6-DD can easily carry a pair of AC/10s for a big punch. I avoid twin AC/20s due to the ghost heat issue (plus the very short range).

[Jay Leon Hart]

Just to throw a proverbial spanner in the works (since you liked ACs on the Mauler), have you considered the Warhammer? Specifically, the WHM-6R. I would have recommended that over the Marauder, but you said you liked the design.

Pros
70 tons, more tonnage for heavier Ballistics
Torso weapons, harder to disarm
Massive arms, useful for shielding

Cons
Only 2 Ballistic hardpoints, so less DAKKA! (AC2/AC5) and more BOOM! (AC10/AC20)
Torso weapons, so harder to track faster enemies or ones on a different elevation

For what it's worth, I perform much better in the lighter, slimmer, larger armed Rifleman than I do the heavier, wider Jagermech.

Good luck choosing

[Burning2nd]

Being a new poor player ... I'd put the 20 $ out and wait for a Mc sale and buy your self a Champion mech or hero , you will earn cbills way faster .

Out of my 45 mech most of them are Champs and hero's and specials or legendary mechs.. all which earn m ore cbills then normal mechs

I average 250-400k chills a round ... my highest amount ever way 3/4 billion cbills out of a 8 min quick drop

[Koniving]

(Heroes get cbills faster. Champion mechs only get experience faster.)

[Rogue Jedi]

Burning2nd, on 30 July 2017 - 03:20 AM, said:

I average 250-400k chills a round ... my highest amount ever way 3/4 billion cbills out of a 8 min quick drop

I think you meant 3/4 million or 750,000, 3/4 billion is 750,000,000 cbills and I did not think it was possible to get much more than a million from any match type.

Also Koniving is correct,
Champions are player designed upgrades of a stock varient, they have a 30% XP bonus, are purchasable for MC or from the gift store, and are also used as Trial Mechs and included in mastery bundles.

I may as well give a breakdown of all the "special varient" types while I am at it

Heroes are varients with a unique hardpoint layout and ^{(with the exception of the the CDA-X-5)} have a name rather than an alphanumeric designation, have a special paint job, are available ingame for MC or from the gift store for real money, or as part of a mastery bundle

Mastery bundles include the Hero, Champion, 1 regular cbill varient as well as 30 days premiun time and some cockpit items, you used to require 3 varients to "master" ^{(complete the skill tree on)} a chassis hence the name, available ingame for MC or in the gift store for real money

special varients other than Champion give Cbill bonus, those include
(F) Founder,
(P) Phoenix,
(I) Clan Invasion waves 1-3,
(G) Gold versions of the Clan invastion (wave 1) Mechs
(R ) Resistance 1 and 2,
(O) Origons IIC
(S) Steam or Special ^{except the limited time only Sarah's Jenner JR7-D(S) (made in honour of a very young Mechwarrior who died of cancer, all proceeds went to a canadian cancer charity) which had an XP bonus}
The (F), (P) and (G) special varients as well as the JR7-D(S) are no longer available, to get the other special varients buy the relevent pack from the store, or Steam, to get the (S) varients from the store you have to buy the colectors edition of a pack ^{(double the price of the standard pack for an extra months premium time, more cockpit items and the special varient for which you get an identical non special varient without the bonuses)}

For all the letter in bracket varients the varient is functionaly identical to one of the cbill varients ^{(or will be when the Mech is released for cbills)} except for the earnings bonus and a special paintjob, so if you were to buy a pack and want a cbill bonus version look carefully at the varient which is getting the bonus, as the Hero is cheeper, a unique varient and comes with the same cbill bonus ^{(but not a months premium time or the duplicate cockpit items)} I would usualy recomend the Hero instead of the (S) varient from the Collectors pack.

Heroes, Champions and other special varients do not give you any gameplay advantage beyond the Heroes unique hardpoint layout

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 30 July 2017 - 04:21 AM.

[Koniving]

Even with a closed beta exploit of infinite rewards (which was basically a bug with their first implementation of the cbill bonuses for playing roles like spotting), the most I ever got in a match was just shy of 3 million (which was in repair and rearm days and my repair cost was about 30,000).

So yeah, think that was just a word mixup. Heh.

[Keltan]

I don't know when the next mech sale pops up, but the War Chest Event closes on Aug 3 and might be replaced with a c-bill sale on mechs. Or it might not.

[Koniving]

Side note: Rogue missed out on [L] which are the Loyalty variants, rewards for playing customers whom met certain criteria, for example purchasing literally any amount of MC last year got people a Loyalty Blackjack 2 variant. There was a bunch of mechs given out.

As an example, this is a Loyalty Atlas AS7-S.

With woodland camo. It came with a default pattern that has an angel that I think is supposed to be a valhalla goddess or some other viking thing.

Typically Loyalty variants are exclusive for a length of time before cbill versions are released (without any fanciness or uniqueness).

[Gagis]

GreyMatter51, on 29 July 2017 - 03:33 PM, said:

I think I am narrowing my first mech to either the Jagermech or the Rifleman. I think I want to start off with Ballistics as my primary and judging from the bonuses on these 2 mechs, it looks like most of their variants favor them. From what little I have seen on the forums about it, the Rifleman seems to be considered a relatively weak mech for a heavy but I am thinking going that route may help me learn what not to do a little bit? Or is the Rifleman that weak compared to the Jagermech?

The rifleman is just that much smaller that it can't effectively run loadouts like dual gauss or dual UAC20, which the Jagermech can do. The Rifleman also has slightly lower arms and taller center torso, which make it an easier target when one is peeking over a hill.

On the plus side, Rifleman is more agile and has betteg harfpoints for mixed bsllistics anf energy or pure energy and most of all Jagermech is ugly and Rifleman is beautiful, which is why I personally prefer the Rifleman. Both are outclassed by the Warhammer dince torso hardpoints are generally more safe for everything except gauss rifles.

If you have some MC to spare, I'd recommend a Legend Killer since it gets absolutely amazing quirks and works as a fast and agile skirmisher with a loadout like this http://mwo.smurfy-ne...11cb9f0fc65703f

[Rogue Jedi]

Koniving, on 30 July 2017 - 05:46 AM, said:

Side note: Rogue missed out on [L] which are the Loyalty variants, rewards for playing customers whom met certain criteria, for example purchasing literally any amount of MC last year got people a Loyalty Blackjack 2 variant. There was a bunch of mechs given out.

Thanks Koniving, the ^{(desperate attempt at finding a convincing sounding)} reason is I missed it because I was thinking about pack related special varients
loyalty Mechs are awarded for the aniversary of MWO leaving beta, in the past they have been announced in August/September with a late September or early October deadline and awarded in the October patch, so keep an eye on announcements during August and September, there is usualy a cbill award for playing 100+ games and Mech rewards with a variaty of elegibility criteria.
links to the past promotions, 2014, 2015, 2016 so you can see exactly what the rewards and requirements were^{(if you are interested)}.

[CFC Conky]

The Rifleman was my first mech and I like it a lot. I think of it more as a larger Blackjack, drive it around like a 40-ton mech and find it pretty durable. The ballistics versions are my preferred ride; I run them with 4 AC2's, 2 LB10-X, 2 AC5's or a single AC20. Medium lasers as backup.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky