89 replies to this topic

[Pariah Devalis]

Escef, on 29 July 2017 - 06:40 AM, said:

NARC and TAG are spotter weapons, not IDF support weapons. Very few IDF mechs are fast enough to make adequate use of both. Ideally, the Griffin could mount 3 LRM packs, and jump snipe with the NARC.

Shadow Cat with 2x LRM launchers, 2x ERMLas, and a NARC + ECM works incredibly well, actually!

[FLG 01]

Obadiah333, on 29 July 2017 - 05:14 AM, said:

Might as well change the title to 'stop asking people to help the team'. I hate LRMS. Hated them since day 1. I have one lrm mech because I have to. But this is a team game. If someone asks for help with locks, I'll do what I can. Clicking R helps everyone on your team, not just the LRM guys.

Locking a target and holding the lock are actually two very different things. Of course I lock my targets, and of course I provide intel by locking other enemies too.
However, especially when piloting a light or medium Mech I will not unnecessarily endanger myself by staring down a heavy or an assault just to "hold the lock" for someone 800m in the back, sitting savely behind a mountain. Of course I run and evade, unfortunately losing the lock. But that's no problem; at least it should not be. If the LRM-boat is clever, he will have used my intel and my distraction to get his own lock from an advantageous position of his own.

Being a scout is my duty, and I will fulfill it. Being a spotter LRM-boats is not my duty. I will do so if the opportunity presents itself, but that's all you can expect.

[Khobai]

please risk your armor to help me do more damage because I want to hide and not to take my fair share of the damage

[Pjwned]

Escef, on 29 July 2017 - 05:26 AM, said:

I'd like to know why it is that people expect that "hold locks" doesn't automatically come with an unspoken caveat of "don't suicide for them"?

Don't get me wrong, I know there's a LOT of people running LRMs that don't do so well. Firing from the extreme edges of range, not moving with the team, not changing targets or adjusting position when they've already slammed a couple hundred missiles into terrain, no backup weapons, etc.

I tend to run LRMs if I'm in the mood for low-impact fun (the hardest part of running an LRM boat is usually tactical positioning, which you have to worry about regardless of build anyway), or if the solo queue has been a particular lump of moronic crud for a few matches in a row. And when that happens, I run Hilda and just wreck people's faces.

It's not even about "don't suicide for them" though, it's more like I'm not going to take unnecessary damage so that some baddy 800m behind everybody can scatter some missiles all over the place and probably end up missing half their shots anyways, and then when actually useful players don't hold locks then there are often enough potato players that whine about it to their team.

If I take a bunch of damage to encourage somebody to be nearly useless and barely do any damage anyways then it's not fine just because I didn't technically "suicide for them;" there's a (much) higher standard than just "don't suicide for them."

[Kwea]

Novakaine, on 29 July 2017 - 05:51 AM, said:

THis is the exact reason why game play has gone to hell in puglandia.
People who don't have a single clue about playing as a team.
And the very same one's will whine about pugstomps in FW.
No one expect you to stand there in the open and get whacked for them.
At any rate.......

It's idiots in LRM's who can't do their own homework that is what is wrong. Well, one thing that went wrong....

[oldradagast]

Why? This is good advise even if you're not playing the stereotypical LRM 60 with 1 small laser as backup LRM boat we all so love around here.

People rarely hold their locks, and they miss out on knowing where to shoot the bad guys by doing that. Now, sure - nobody likes the LRM boat that hides 900m out, but at least hold your locks, LRM's or not.

[C4NC3R]

oldradagast, on 29 July 2017 - 08:16 AM, said:

Why? This is good advise even if you're not playing the stereotypical LRM 60 with 1 small laser as backup LRM boat we all so love around here.

People rarely hold their locks, and they miss out on knowing where to shoot the bad guys by doing that. Now, sure - nobody likes the LRM boat that hides 900m out, but at least hold your locks, LRM's or not.

Actually LRM50 or LRM55 are does twice more damage than 4xLRM15 boat. It's wierd but true.
And the guy just forget that LURMs not obviously need a lock, you can bombard the enemy without em.

[Pjwned]

Escef, on 29 July 2017 - 06:34 AM, said:

Quite bluntly put, because a lot, and I do mean a LOT, of players don't lock targets AT ALL.

EDIT: And while on the topic, I stopped asking for locks when running an LRM boat a LONG time ago. Because the people that don't lock? Yeah, it doesn't change their behavior. And some passive-aggressive smacktards will go out of their way to NOT lock because they're afraid the IDF support sandblaster will steal their precious kills (little hint to that crowd: learn how to use your pinpoint weapons and it won't be a problem).

When I'm playing LRMs I just announce "LRM [weight class] here" and that's it, pretty simple message so that people know they have at least some dedicated LRM mechs.

It probably also helps when people see "LRM medium here" instead of "LRM assault here" since so far I've only really played LRM mediums since I actually try really hard to get my own locks when I play LRMs.

Escef, on 29 July 2017 - 06:40 AM, said:

NARC and TAG are spotter weapons, not IDF support weapons. Very few IDF mechs are fast enough to make adequate use of both. Ideally, the Griffin could mount 3 LRM packs, and jump snipe with the NARC.

It's not hard to run a faster mech with less LRM tubes so that you're fast enough to take plenty of advantage from both Artemis and TAG.

I would even go so far as to say that TAG is a complete waste on most non-LRM mechs, aside from some direct fire sniper builds that toss in a TAG, and even then it's not very useful because in a lot of cases the TAG still barely gets any use.

NARC is a lot harder to use with LRMs for sure though.

[Coolant]

LRM's are useful on a team, absolutely. But, and I'm not trying to be offensive toward those that use them, but they really are easy to use...and safe. You don't even have to be able to see the enemy. I prefer to fight toe to toe with an enemy giving them equal opportunity during brawls to deal me damage and if I lose I lose. But hiding behind cover with LRM's I just can't do.

[HGAK47]

Like everything in this game, they do occasionally do something possibly even have a purpose.....

I have had probably 2 matches ever where LURMS absolutly obliterated the enemy but it was glourious. A team of lurmers and just me in my PB spotting for the lurms. "Target spotted" I call..... the rain shower was so sweet to behold. Having 8 -10 mechs all shooting the exact same target at the exact same time with unobstructed lurms = bye bye.

Unfortunatly most of the time with lurmers, I call and even type in chat targets that I have a clear LOS on with plenty of extra time.... most of the time lurmers pay no attention to me. Oh well their loss.

Coolant, on 29 July 2017 - 08:28 AM, said:

LRM's are useful on a team, absolutely. But, and I'm not trying to be offensive toward those that use them, but they really are easy to use...and safe. You don't even have to be able to see the enemy. I prefer to fight toe to toe with an enemy giving them equal opportunity during brawls to deal me damage and if I lose I lose. But hiding behind cover with LRM's I just can't do.

I agree with your first part...

But I cant do jack with lurms 90% of the time. I honestly dont see why people use them so often... I wouldnt say they are easy to win with. Just my opinion.

Edited by HGAK47, 29 July 2017 - 09:14 AM.

[GrimRiver]

Locks provide more than just help to lulurm boats, it give a status on targeted mechs.

By no means should a teammate poke over a hill and stand there just to hold a lock, there is a time and place for locks, keeping locks 100% of the time isn't one of them.

Besides lulurms shouldn't be boated as main weapons, they're better when used as a support weapon ran adjacent to other weapons like lasers, ballistics or SRM/MRM.

Exp: 4xML, 3xSRM6, LRM15 or 2xML, 2xSRM6, 2xLRM10.

NOT: 4xLRM15, TAG, 2xSL or 4xLRM10, 3xML.

I can't tell you how many times I killed lulurm boats hiding at the back with my lights only for the lulurm boat to get salty just because he didn't have barebones level of defense weapons.

Lulurm boats rely too much on the team to be useful on their own.

[C4NC3R]

GrimRiver, on 29 July 2017 - 09:19 AM, said:

Locks provide more than just help to lulurm boats, it give a status on targeted mechs.

By no means should a teammate poke over a hill and stand there just to hold a lock, there is a time and place for locks, keeping locks 100% of the time isn't one of them.

Besides lulurms shouldn't be boated as main weapons, they're better when used as a support weapon ran adjacent to other weapons like lasers, ballistics or SRM/MRM.

Exp: 4xML, 3xSRM6, LRM15 or 2xML, 2xSRM6, 2xLRM10.

NOT: 4xLRM15, TAG, 2xSL or 4xLRM10, 3xML.

I can't tell you how many times I killed lulurm boats hiding at the back with my lights only for the lulurm boat to get salty just because he didn't have barebones level of defense weapons.

Lulurm boats rely too much on the team to be useful on their own.

CP-10-Q 2xLRM15+LRM10+3xLRM5+3xLL's. or CP-10-Q 2xLRM20+LRM10+3xLL's.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

There are so many ways to say you have a LRM boat.

The game didn't go well for us though and there was not enough time to hurt the enemy base enough. Losing my ST when entering the base didn't help either.

Spoiler

[GrimRiver]

C4NC3R, on 29 July 2017 - 09:35 AM, said:

CP-10-Q 2xLRM15+LRM10+3xLRM5+3xLL's. or CP-10-Q 2xLRM20+LRM10+3xLL's.

Your lurm boat falls in line with the acceptable "Exp" builds, it's a lurm boat with adequate defenses.

I'm talking more along the line of bad lulurm boats running 98% of lurms with little to no defense like the "NOT" examples I given.

Lurm build are fine, just as long as they can defend themselves when attacked.

Edited by GrimRiver, 29 July 2017 - 10:02 AM.

[Obadiah333]

Let's not let this degenerate into a "lurms are bad and you should feel bad for using them" rant. Everyone has heard enough of that already. The important point here is that using R for lock is important, every mech, every match to help your team. Do it, even if you hate the fact that some lazy lurm guy is going to benefit from it. In the long run, you benefit because the team benefits. If you are interested in winning, then do what's best for the team and use R.

[Bushmaster0]

C4NC3R, on 29 July 2017 - 08:03 AM, said:

[Redacted]

C4NC3R, on 29 July 2017 - 08:34 AM, said:

[Redacted]

hmm.... something seems oddly disjointed about those two posts from the same person

Edited by McValium, 29 July 2017 - 11:06 AM.
Quote cleanup

[Alexander of Macedon]

For real though, if someone is obnoxious about expecting their team to hold locks for them, I'll go out of my way to avoid helping them. If I notice a lurmer who isn't an entitled shitnugget doing something useful and I'm in position to hold locks (mostly flanking in lights), I'll make sure to let them know when they have solid locks and when they're about to lose them.

The primary reason people tell lurmboats to get their own locks in solo queue is because you generally can't rely on your team to get them for you (nor should you expect such) in the way that a two-man team with a dedicated NARC/TAG spotter could. In other words, if you just blindfire at anything you can target, you're liable to miss the vast majority of your shots. A lurmboat not doing much armor sharing is tolerable if 80-90% of his ammo goes on target. If 80-90% of it is wasted due to dropped locks/hitting terrain, not so much.

[Thomas G Wolf]

I use LRM boats and I like using them, I even know how to use a LRM mech, and yes to the Trumps amoung you they work, but I also hit R whenever I can because no matter what I am driving R is my and my teams friend. Just for you Trumps, hitting R means that I know what the enemy has as far as weapons go, how damaged he is etc etc.
Also the assaults and heavies that I help out with my LRM boats when they are being pestered by lights LOVE my LRMs when they take those critters out or drive them away. Strangely enough I never hear complains when I do that.

Edited by Thomas G Wolf, 29 July 2017 - 10:30 AM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Keep locks FFS!

[Xetelian]

I'm not going to stare down a Direwolf or a Madcat II just so a few more missiles pepper their armor. Most people aren't.

When people ask for locks to be held I tell them that we will do what we can but we're not going to die just so they can have a few more missiles hit.