69 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Mystere, on 29 July 2017 - 03:02 PM, said:

That just means there will be more Clan vs. Clan as opposed to IS vs. Clan and IS vs. IS fights. As such, I really don't see the problem.with people getting to play the Mechs and side they want.

Of course there is problem. This will mean over half of the mechs PGI had created will not even see much play!

[Ryllen Kriel]

Slinging "lore" around like it's a dirty word is amusing. It's kind of like kicking the Hunchback of Notre Dame in the street or flogging a dead horse at this point. Not many players left in this community sadly give a damn about lore.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 29 July 2017 - 10:04 PM, said:

Of course there is problem. This will mean over half of the mechs PGI had created will not even see much play!

I have news for you. Given the proliferation of copy-pasta meta-tryhard wannabes, we're already seeing a lot less that half the mechs PGI had created.

[El Bandito]

Mystere, on 30 July 2017 - 04:56 AM, said:

I have news for you. Given the proliferation of copy-pasta meta-tryhard wannabes, we're already seeing a lot less that half the mechs PGI had created.

And are you too blind to see that your proposal will cut even that number in half?!

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 30 July 2017 - 05:03 AM, said:

And are you too blind to see that your proposal will cut even that number in half?!

Actually, it will set them free.

Edited by Mystere, 30 July 2017 - 05:07 AM.

[El Bandito]

Mystere, on 30 July 2017 - 05:06 AM, said:

Actually, it will set them free.

Yep, no use talking to you any longer.

[vandalhooch]

MNML86, on 29 July 2017 - 07:15 PM, said:

As one of those who supports10 vs 12 as per lore and have been insulted by others for wanting to follow lore.

What is the point playing a game with such a rich backstory when you are unwilling to follow the setting?

Who exactly will care about the backstory when no one plays on the side that loses 80% of the time?

Quote

Go play battlefield, counterstrike or some other FPS game with no backstory, weapons and armor being the same but using a different skin for them.

I play clan as well. The so called victories we won to me are empty ones since we had every advantage. It would be more strange if we had lost. The bar for the Tukkayid event was completely blue most of the time.

The tug-of-war mechanic gives people who don't think about it, the completely wrong impression of what's actually going on. Given thousands of matches, even a 1% win advantage ends up pulling the tug-of-war completely to one side. Does that mean one side dominated the other? NO! A 1% advantage is not dominated.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 30 July 2017 - 05:19 AM, said:

Yep, no use talking to you any longer.

That is because you are missing the point.

Tying different drop formations to different game modes that use a good variety of maps will incentivize experimentation, thus adding even more variety -- i.e. "setting them free" by actually finishing the game instead of endless band-aid after band-aid "solutions".

People keep focusing on "10 vs. 12", when the entire point some people are actually driving at in this and other similar threads actually goes beyond that.

[Mystere]

vandalhooch, on 30 July 2017 - 05:27 AM, said:

The tug-of-war mechanic gives people who don't think about it, the completely wrong impression of what's actually going on. Given thousands of matches, even a 1% win advantage ends up pulling the tug-of-war completely to one side. Does that mean one side dominated the other? NO! A 1% advantage is not dominated.

Yes, that linear representation of "progress" can be quite deceptive.

Now imagine if instead of a one-dimensional representation, we have "progress" represented as a tree or directed graph.

Edited by Mystere, 30 July 2017 - 05:35 AM.

[Athom83]

If they really wan't star vs a lance, then we could go full "lore" and make it 5 v 24. That sounds fun.




Am I doing it right?

[BTGbullseye]

If you need even teams, but want it to be 'lore', why not use 1st grade math to solve the problem? 4x5 = 20, so both teams should have 20 people right? Makes sense to me.

"But what about a massive swarm of enemies wrecking everything?" you might ask... Well, it would be easier to prevent that if there were game modes where your team had to capture and hold more than one point at a time, with people standing in the 'hold' zone to actually hold it.

Granted, I put only an extreme minimum of brain-time into this suggestion, so feel free to rip it apart like everyone seems to do to make themselves feel superior.

[Requiemking]

You know, all these people who keep asking for Lances VS Star should play 1 Clan Star VS 1 IS Company(3 Lances). Lets see them Clanners win now.....

Edited by Requiemking, 30 July 2017 - 05:27 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Mystere, on 29 July 2017 - 07:47 AM, said:

Someone got triggered!

Edit:

And another one!

Are you trigger-shaming people? tsk tsk. I don't think they're triggered, just because they're giving their honest opinion about something in a decent manner doesn't mean people are triggered. He's not off his rockers or anything. But if talking about something upset about is all it takes to get "triggered", well, then I guess the entire forum is guilty, which means there isn't really a point in pointing out who got triggered, is there?


So if we're talking about somebody actually being triggered, here's what I think it sounds like:

Holy **** you're dumb. do you honestly think that? lol such a stupid little *****, you dont even know what triggered means. your probably some prepubescent nobody, and once again throwing your idiotic and meaningless opinion around only to mock and degrade people. get a life and leave people alone ffs

Notice: the change in language, the countless insults, poor grammar to indicate hastey typing, the lack of meaningful input, the overly-defensive stance.

Anyways, that's just how i see triggered people talking and acting. acting very defensive in a belligerent way, where their reaction is just way over the top.
But maybe that's all changed now. I think the term is so overused now that it almost seem to mean "expressing a difference in opinion".

INB4 triggered
HAH!

[MNML86]

vandalhooch, on 30 July 2017 - 05:27 AM, said:

Who exactly will care about the backstory when no one plays on the side that loses 80% of the time?


The tug-of-war mechanic gives people who don't think about it, the completely wrong impression of what's actually going on. Given thousands of matches, even a 1% win advantage ends up pulling the tug-of-war completely to one side. Does that mean one side dominated the other? NO! A 1% advantage is not dominated.

People will play a side which actually has a chance to win. The clans have for a long time now had all the advantages of winning. Almost wheel-chaired to victory e.g equal numbers, better tech and mechs.

Over time as people got fed up being target practice for clanners, they left and so the clans got nerfed again and again as the population dropped. I have clan mechs do you think I enjoy them being nerfed to the ground?

There is a reason why the clans were given better tech and the IS numbers. To make them equal but different.

Lorewise a clan touman would have around 1,500 mechs and an IS house would have on the low side of 8,640 mechs during the clan invasion. (Please do correct me if I got this wrong). They were just too busy pointing their guns at the other houses.

A tug of war will seesaw going from left to right and back if things are balanced, not stay on one side forever. No excitement, people leave, since everyone knows the outcome.

Edited by MNML86, 30 July 2017 - 06:21 PM.

[Mole]

Am I the only one who thinks it's effing hilarious when an insult like "neckbeard" gets thrown around on a forum that is about something that is by it's very nature nerdy as all hell?

[Brain Cancer]

Prosperity Park, on 29 July 2017 - 07:42 AM, said:

Stars versus Lances and 10 versus 12 are selfish ideas from selfish people.

"I think one team should have better Mechs that are faster, stronger, and more powerful, and the other team should have slower, weaker Mechs with inferior weapons. That way the first team has more opportunities for more kills, they get to shoot at more targets, and they get to have more fun. The second team gets to slog around with their inferior equipment and they have fewer opportunities to score kills.

That's totally fair and balanced!"

That's what you sound like.

No. It's a reflection of the fact that short of massively warping one tech tree or the other to the point of breaking the game, there will never be 1:1 Clan/IS parity. The only reason it is even attempted in MWO is greed, pure and simple. The same greed that gave us the $500 goldmech Clan package, in fact.

And TT was never designed to be a one-man operation. You ran a unit, so numerical disadvantage/advantage didn't mean much, although you could always increase rewards proportionately for the inferior-tech unit. 12v10? OK, the IS side gets 120% the normal rewards of fighting what should be 10 'Mechs with an extra two 'Mechs worth of oomph split between them. And the Clan side gets correspondingly less per more easily shot up robots.

But there will never, truly be "this Clan Mech of 50 tons is as good as this IS Mech of 50 tons". That it is even a goal of PGI is one of the bright neon signs that indicates they never understood the game they were trying to bring an online version of to us in the first place. We'd have been better off if FW had never been anything more than IS vs IS, Clan vs Clan and a matchmaker that brought equivalent numbers of each tech/weight type to the table in QP.

[Mystere]

MoonUnitBeta, on 30 July 2017 - 05:54 PM, said:

Are you trigger-shaming people? tsk tsk. I don't think they're triggered ...

Check both of their posting history on the topic and you'll see why.

[kesmai]

8 vs 12.
Stock.
Fixed omnipod lodouts.
Complete unquirkening of IS.
Ungimped clan weapons and equipment.




Kek

[Mystere]

kesmai, on 31 July 2017 - 03:01 AM, said:

8 vs 12.
Stock.
Fixed omnipod lodouts.
Complete unquirkening of IS.
Ungimped clan weapons and equipment.




Kek

I just have one question. What do you call an 8-mech clan formation?

[Athom83]

vandalhooch, on 30 July 2017 - 05:27 AM, said:

The tug-of-war mechanic gives people who don't think about it, the completely wrong impression of what's actually going on. Given thousands of matches, even a 1% win advantage ends up pulling the tug-of-war completely to one side. Does that mean one side dominated the other? NO! A 1% advantage is not dominated.

I did the math during the Tukayyid 3 event at the request of someone, and I found if it didn't stop at 100% of a side clan would have won by about 13,000% each phase.

Edited by Athom83, 31 July 2017 - 11:06 AM.