56 replies to this topic

[Alexander of Macedon]

So I heard you folks like heavy laser builds for solo queue.



Yep, that's an 84 alpha Timber Wolf. Of course, the flipside is that you will overheat if you alpha while standing still on all but the coolest maps. If you stagger fire them from longest to shortest duration, you can just edge under the cap on heat-neutral and cooler maps. So basically you burn once and hide for five to ten seconds. Why even bother?




So, uh. Yeah. It kills stuff dead.

Not cherrypicked, either, that was the second match I played in it. The first was an 800-damage match... where we got stomped.

Of course if anyone actually pays attention to you or presses R, you're kinda screwed, since you get to alpha maybe once every 6-7 seconds. But seeing people go from moderate armor damage to dead before they realize they should be twisting never stops being funny. The MPLas make for decent self-defense, even if they're only in because a pure heavy laser build would have a bunch of unused tonnage and be hotter still.

[Mcgral18]

Coolant, on 30 July 2017 - 12:46 PM, said:

be great if pilots would think outside the box

The box is nothing but a selection of set values


Some values are better than others
Nothing we can do about that, other than abuse them

[Brain Cancer]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 29 July 2017 - 08:54 PM, said:

In TT heat penalties only applied after heat dissipation, at the very end of the round. 21xDHS (for the HBK version of the laser lolpha build) means you can dissipate 42 heat before checking the penalty table after firing an alpha with that HBK-IIC-A build... which would leave 24 heat at the end of the round (6x5 heat at TT ERML values + 2x18 for HLL = 66; 66 - 42 = 24- the same value as a stock NVA-Prime after an alpha, in fact). That MAD-IIC in the OP would end up with 6 heat left over after an alpha strike, which only triggers the lowest possible penalty (-1 to movement) with no risk of shutdown.

Of course, that's assuming you're in the standard 10-second TT rules. The closest thing we have to MWO is Solaris VII, which checks every 2.5 seconds- and MWO checks even more often.

Most builds even in current levels of heat tolerance for MWO would become massively sluggish, suffer accuracy issues and risk destroying (in MWO, converting "ammo explosion" to "ammo damage" is the only sane option given how much more ammo you need in MWO) ammo left and right with the amount of heat spiking people use in laservomiting.

[Antares102]

Alexander of Macedon, on 30 July 2017 - 07:17 PM, said:

But seeing people go from moderate armor damage to dead before they realize they should be twisting never stops being funny.

Exactly that !
I had many games with > 1000 dmg and 5+ kills but this was one of the best recently with the 78 alpha build.
The special thing was that I got legged after the 4th kill and in the end I had 35% with right torso and arm open but still all weapons. To the last kill I had to limp a looong distance which was the MAD-IIC-D.

Edited by Antares102, 30 July 2017 - 10:28 PM.

[Kmieciu]

MischiefSC, on 30 July 2017 - 09:04 AM, said:

Just do it with LPL. Same thing we've been running forma while but better heat and shorter burn.

It depends on the mech. EBJ for example has endo and ferro, therefore you go with 2LPL+6ERML.
Hellbringer has lots of room for heatsinks, and swaping c-LPL for HLL gives you 4 extra DHS. Plus, the ECM helps each time you poke. I've been running mine with 2HML 3ERML and 25 DHS.
It's great for farming potatos in Faction Play. Yesterdays record: 3 alphas, 3 kills. That will teach them not to genrush ;-)

[Kmieciu]

Aleski, on 30 July 2017 - 01:13 PM, said:

clans mech have insane lasers, very hot

Clan Heavy Lasers are not that hot. (nor are they heavy, LOL).
They are more heat efficient than ER lasers, both Clan and IS:

C-HML deals 1.25 damage per point of heat.
C-HLL deals 1.13 damage per point of heat.

IS ER ML deals 1.11 damage per point of heat. It is less heat efficient, therefore hotter in the long run than C-HLL.

Plus, they are more heat efficient than C-ERPPC. At least with Heavy lasers you have a chance of putting all the damage on a single component, while the PPC splash effectively wastes 1/3 killing potential.

Edited by Kmieciu, 30 July 2017 - 11:02 PM.

[Aleski]

Kmieciu, on 30 July 2017 - 10:59 PM, said:

Clan Heavy Lasers are not that hot. (nor are they heavy, LOL).
They are more heat efficient than ER lasers, both Clan and IS:

C-HML deals 1.25 damage per point of heat.
C-HLL deals 1.13 damage per point of heat.

IS ER ML deals 1.11 damage per point of heat. It is less heat efficient, therefore hotter in the long run than C-HLL.

Plus, they are more heat efficient than C-ERPPC. At least with Heavy lasers you have a chance of putting all the damage on a single component, while the PPC splash effectively wastes 1/3 killing potential.

I know that.

The problem isn't the heat per second but it's the amount of heat genrated when you Alpha strikes. And in the case of Heavy lazors, it's tremendous.
HLL are 16 heat !! So, even if they are not that bad in HPS, it's because they have a very crappy cooldown, heat is a problem anyway. You have to wait to be at 40 - 30% heat before alpha striking and it always happen after the end of the Heavy lazors to cool off.

[Kmieciu]

Aleski, on 31 July 2017 - 01:05 AM, said:

The problem isn't the heat per second but it's the amount of heat genrated when you Alpha strikes. And in the case of Heavy lazors, it's tremendous.

The whole point of laservomit is to fire 1 alpha and then cool down behind cover, where the enemy can't hit you.

Aleski, on 31 July 2017 - 01:05 AM, said:

HLL are 16 heat !!

Yeah, and 4xIS ERML is 18 heat. Much wow.

I may be biased, because I use HLLs in Faction Play. Right now IS has a lot of tonnage to spare and potatolords love their rotary King Crabs and MRM Atlases. Heavy Lasers are a great equalizer against slow, lumbering mechs.

PS. For quick play, I would recomend 4 C-MPL + 2 C-HLL combo. That's almost like having 6 IS ERML + 4 LL. C-MPLs have short duration and are great Damage-per-Heat wise, and the HLLs are great then the enemy is stationary or unaware.

Edited by Kmieciu, 31 July 2017 - 02:26 AM.

[FalconerGray]

I wanted to find a Heavy Laser build and came up with this. Couldn't tell you if it's technically any "good" or not, as I'm not a regular assault pilot at all, but I'm finding some pretty decent success in puglandia by using MASC and the Exe-mobility to work as a pretty deadly corner poker.

EXE-D

Edited by legatoblues, 31 July 2017 - 04:34 AM.

[Aleski]

Kmieciu, on 31 July 2017 - 02:05 AM, said:

I may be biased, because I use HLLs in Faction Play. Right now IS has a lot of tonnage to spare and potatolords love their rotary King Crabs and MRM Atlases. Heavy Lasers are a great equalizer against slow, lumbering mechs.

PS. For quick play, I would recomend 4 C-MPL + 2 C-HLL combo. That's almost like having 6 IS ERML + 4 LL. C-MPLs have short duration and are great Damage-per-Heat wise, and the HLLs are great then the enemy is stationary or unaware.

I disagree with the use of MPL and HLL. MPL is a DPS weapon, HLL is a big alpha weapon. And the ERML is far better coupling with HLL because it has almost the same range. With the MPL you loose a lot of range, wich is crucial to use laser vomit efficiently.

With a combo of MPL and HLL it will still work, but i found that those two laser are not great together for the range and cooldown difference. Bad synergy in my opinion.

Plus the other advantage of the use of HLL with ERML is that they are very lightweight, so you can use them on clan omnimech that lack some tonnage like Linebacker, Summoner, Gargoyle, Executionner, etc...

[Aleski]

legatoblues, on 31 July 2017 - 04:33 AM, said:

I wanted to find a Heavy Laser build and came up with this. Couldn't tell you if it's technically any "good" or not, as I'm not a regular assault pilot at all, but I'm finding some pretty decent success in puglandia by using MASC and the Exe-mobility to work as a pretty deadly corner poker.

EXE-D

Not great at all in my opinion. ATM 12 with one ton of ammo ? That's a waste of weight here. What about that :

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c7ad12c539bcad9

Not that great either cause i have to use a TCIII to use all th weight. Maybe something with MPL will work in that case ? Anyway, the Executionner is great as a LPL + SPL or MPL boat too.

[FalconerGray]

Aleski, on 31 July 2017 - 04:52 AM, said:

Not great at all in my opinion. ATM 12 with one ton of ammo ? That's a waste of weight here. What about that :

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c7ad12c539bcad9

Not that great either cause i have to use a TCIII to use all th weight. Maybe something with MPL will work in that case ? Anyway, the Executionner is great as a LPL + SPL or MPL boat too.

Yeah the ATM was more about filling space than anything else, though it has come in handy in a few odd ocassions. I'm not that adventurous in the mechlab - I've been playing the exact same light mech for approx 2 years almost exclusively , maybe more.

I might give that build a shot and see how it goes, but I know I'll be back in the ACH before too long anyway...

[Aleski]

Kmieciu, on 31 July 2017 - 02:05 AM, said:

PS. For quick play, I would recomend 4 C-MPL + 2 C-HLL combo. That's almost like having 6 IS ERML + 4 LL. C-MPLs have short duration and are great Damage-per-Heat wise, and the HLLs are great then the enemy is stationary or unaware.

I was thinking again about your MPL builds propositions and came with this for my TBR-Prime(I):

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a37f942fb4534b2

I think it's far more raisonnable in heat compare to my previous builds, and the use of a TCI and a Clan Active Probe will allow for a very quick info on ennemy health... You can made it with JJ using the S variant right torso and put one more ERML on it too.

I must give it a try.

Anyway, thanks for the input !

legatoblues, on 31 July 2017 - 05:09 AM, said:

Yeah the ATM was more about filling space than anything else, though it has come in handy in a few odd ocassions. I'm not that adventurous in the mechlab - I've been playing the exact same light mech for approx 2 years almost exclusively , maybe more.

I might give that build a shot and see how it goes, but I know I'll be back in the ACH before too long anyway...

The best solution is to try different settings in Quick Play and see what works well with your playstyle ! Arctic Cheetah is a great mech, but i haven't play it since new tech, i should drop in it soon =)

I'm waiting for August patch and the new Omnipods with six ballistic in the arms ! Maybe i will try some LMG loadout on it...

[Antares102]

So has somebody tried more of the HLL and ERML vomit combo?
Currently I still favour this build over anything else in solo queue.
Even got Proton twice today in his Anni
(But I only made one screenshot )

Edited by Antares102, 02 August 2017 - 01:05 PM.

[MechWarrior5152251]

ERLL seem superior in virutally every way to Heavy Large Lasers....

[Gas Guzzler]

MechWarrior5152251, on 02 August 2017 - 02:24 PM, said:

ERLL seem superior in virutally every way to Heavy Large Lasers....

Except for the whole damage aspect.

[Baba Yogi]

I did try it just for the fun of it with my HBKIICA. Result is glorious, anything you hit wants to retreat back immediately rather than fire back. It takes me to 90% heat for each alpha but it is a refreshing change for me after months of 6mpl hunchy.