83 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Yeonne Greene, on 30 July 2017 - 10:38 PM, said:

You can add the MLX in there, too. Commando can speed tank at 165 kph, gets all the armor. MLX is a sitting duck, gets armor only on the less desirable arm pods, else useless structure.

That isn't to say the Commando is OP, just that the MLX isn't getting what it needs, where it needs it, either.

Excerpt from future patch notes: The Commando has been overperforming relative to other mechs of the same weight so durability quirks have been removed to bring it in line.

[Vellron2005]

If you ask me, right now, clan mechs feel paper thin, while IS mechs can tank for days..

I've seen IS mechs that simply refuse to go down.. even after you strip the armor off, it's like "why won't you die already!?"

And when somebody shoots my clan mechs, it's more like "oh, I looked at you.. Here, take my side torso"..

Note: I usually skill my mechs with full survival tree.. so I get all the possible health I can, but still.. they just seem like paper cutouts of mechs rather than endo steel..

[Luminis]

You can bet your behind that PGI won't buff the MLX, KFX or ADR any time soon. Doesn't matter if a buff is warrented or not.

/edit: I'd argue that the ADR needs a buff the least. It has its issues, but a PPC ADR at least has a niche it can fill, thanks to its PPC quirks.

Edited by Luminis, 30 July 2017 - 11:38 PM.

[AppleseeN]

Well some little IS meks can, most can't. If WHM-6R can do both, longrange and brawling, Marauder just don't have or space, or hardpoints or all together to be an effective mek. Yes IS still have BNC-3M that can carry 2HPPC+3LPL... but it's one of a rare antique piecies of tech. Highlander still miss extra E-hardpoints, especially HGN-733P to be good assault except being an LURM boat. Btw... Timber with 2HLLs and 2 or 4 ATM are more effective brawler than any IS assault still.
About a New Tech...
IS UAC's comparing to IS AC's are still in a lower position, RAC's are entirely an CQB surpression weapon. HGR is a weapon that can be carried by few mechs and are fragile like a glass, any scratch... say good bye to ST with arm. PPC's... oh well, LPPC or SNUBs are just a joke when any Light Mech appears on the horizont, ERPPC still more valid than any of those. Yes HPPC is a replacement for many, but the Heat... anything less than 1.2 MTG you get shutdown in two salvoes.
ER Lasers... good for poking, not good for average fight, toooo hot. Plus wearing LAMS to that, and you'll have sauna in a mech cockpit with spa and hot tub together.
Only mild good are MRM,s which can replace SRM's almost... but they don't splat. So easy can be avoided.

So where is those OP IS Weapons? Can't see em.

Edited by AppleseeN, 31 July 2017 - 12:11 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

I think IS mechs are more diverse now and therefore more fun to play. If you look at the power level, I'd still recommend clan laser vomit

[AppleseeN]

Vellron2005, on 30 July 2017 - 11:30 PM, said:

If you ask me, right now, clan mechs feel paper thin, while IS mechs can tank for days..

I've seen IS mechs that simply refuse to go down.. even after you strip the armor off, it's like "why won't you die already!?"

And when somebody shoots my clan mechs, it's more like "oh, I looked at you.. Here, take my side torso"..

Note: I usually skill my mechs with full survival tree.. so I get all the possible health I can, but still.. they just seem like paper cutouts of mechs rather than endo steel..

Man, Survival Skill Tree are only for Assault and few heavies like Timber. Anything less than 75 tons in Clans, do not need that tree from word - AT ALL. For exsample IS WHM-6R uses only 12-16 points on that tree. Timber need at least 24 points on that tree, but than he turns into a propper brawler. Btw, Survival Tree are essential for all 100 tonners despite the fraction. Even if they got some armor quirks like Annie.
Stormcrow mostly need an Firepower and Operational Tree, cause... he is an Clan Main Battle Mech. Since new tech come out I saw an Rossario again, few days ago and the guy was extreamly dangerous having 6 mostly IS mechs in a flank ripped appart at Manifold. And he was using something like this... SCR-PRIME

Edited by AppleseeN, 31 July 2017 - 12:28 AM.

[El Bandito]

Luminis, on 30 July 2017 - 11:36 PM, said:

You can bet your behind that PGI won't buff the MLX, KFX or ADR any time soon. Doesn't matter if a buff is warrented or not.

4xHML MLynx does nasty things to unsuspecting targets.

[Zergling]

Fox With A Shotgun, on 30 July 2017 - 10:12 PM, said:

And excessively so, in some cases.

Case in point, the slower 30-35 ton gunboat-style lights. Urbanmech and Panther. Compare them to the Kit Fox and the Adder, which are comparable 104.5kph lights. The armour quirks make them that much more survivable when you stack survival on them.

It makes me rather annoyed. KFX and ADR already have trash tier hitboxes and are absolutely massive. They have easily isolated arms and STs, while the Urbie is really small to begin with and has very nicely proportioned hitboxes. But where do the quirks end up? Arms only for the KFX, and hardly any for the ADR. Instead, the Urbie and the Panther get enough quirks to bump them up 20-30 tons in baseline armor.

Kit Fox and Adder massively outgun the Urbanmech and Panther though, and the Panther is hobbled by the horrible low arm hardpoints.

If I had to pick a 97 kph light to run, it will be the Kit Fox by far in first place, followed distantly by the Adder, then even more distantly the Urbanmech.
And the Panther will be so distant it'll be over the horizon.

Yeonne Greene, on 30 July 2017 - 10:38 PM, said:

You can add the MLX in there, too. Commando can speed tank at 165 kph, gets all the armor. MLX is a sitting duck, gets armor only on the less desirable arm pods, else useless structure.

That isn't to say the Commando is OP, just that the MLX isn't getting what it needs, where it needs it, either.

Hopefully getting better hardpoints next month will make the Mist Lynx slightly less terribad.

[Luminis]

El Bandito, on 31 July 2017 - 12:32 AM, said:

4xHML MLynx does nasty things to unsuspecting targets.

Even the worst Lights can farm potatoes with bit awareness for their surroundings

[Nema Nabojiv]

You cant really compare all IS mechs vs all clan mechs and make any kind of a valid conclusion.

In same weight class maybe, like IS 70 tonners are stronger than clan, and clan 35 tonners are stronger than IS. Something along this lines.

[The Basilisk]

Jun Watarase, on 30 July 2017 - 07:21 PM, said:

Armor/structure quriks compounding with the survival tree is insane. My CTF-1X has more than 110 CT armor...I can get away with a lot more than with clan mechs.

0.6 second duration pulse lasers means that most of that damage is going into one component. Its incredibly easy to use. 3x LPLs are just amazing...clans dont have anything that comes close. 30 damage to one location while your opponent is still halfway through his laser burn is priceless.

Heavy PPCs are hilarious. No charge time gauss rifles with infinite ammo. ER PPCs are a total joke in comparison. The 90 meter min range isn't a big deal since you can easily get near 600m range with bonuses.

I tried dropping in some matches with a WHM-6R/CTF-1X and it feels extremely easy to do well. I have to put in a fraction of the effort that i need with my clan mechs...the PPFLD and the extra tankiness just makes things so much easier.

Honestly wondering if anyone else has found IS mechs much easier/powerful to use?

Actually not....no.....not at all.

CTF was a mech that was literaly dead for years now and atm its ok in QP but otherwise still barely viable due to its hitbox geometry and stupid weaponhardpoints and inability to lift its arms to fire.

And honestly you can slap all the armor you want and new tech on Atlas but it still gets its behind penetraded by lights and in 2/3 matches you barely do over 300 dmg because you get focused and beaten to pulp before you get in range if you arent one of those useless assault lurmers.

"No charge time gauss rifles with infinite ammo." WTF are you talking about dude ? HPPC ? OLOLOLOL Do you realize how much heat they do ? On most maps you just get closed in by faster mechs and outbrawled with SRMs and large ACs.
Sure in tryhard land where most ppl do the same laser vomit and ppfld builds that do little dps those things seem to be awsome. The moment you get circled by a SRM Paketh and some Cheetas or any high dps builds you're toast.

So no new weapons add a lot of more things to play with but nothing that actually makes IS mechs stronger.
Clan mechs still got more bang for bugs and awsomly better hardpoints.

[Jun Watarase]

Some of these replies make me realise how entitled some players are.

You want bad hitboxes? Ok look at the EBJ. Side torsos are extremely easy to isolate, especially with the giant top mounted guns. The CT pretty much screams "shoot me" and you can even hit it from the side just by aiming at the nose.

You cant hit the CTF torsos from the sides because the arms block it.

Poor weapon mounts? Ok, look at the low slung arms on the mad dog. Which also has huge side torsos that are easy to isolate.

Heavy PPC too hot? Try using clan ER PPCs lol, except you are doing 2/3rds of the damage.

Your clan mechs have huge alphas? OK, good luck focusing all of that on one location when your opponent can torso twist half way through your laser burn beause his pulse lasers have a duration of 0.6s or less.

I never realised how much I had to struggle with clan mechs before All those long laser durations spreading damage everywhere and paper thin armor with poor hitboxes. The range advantage is easily negated by using cover unless its a poorly designed map (cough polar highlands cough).

Using IS mechs just feels like playing the game on easy mode now...your mileage may vary.

[R Valentine]

Not really sure where people see IS mechs "tank for days". Most IS mechs have structure quirks, which I find to be underwhelming. Armor quirks always rock, but structure quirks rarely aid all that much given that my guns can still happily fall off long before the structure goes. Either way, I'm down firepower, and if it's a Gauss Rifle that goes then I'm down half my mech anyways. The only IS mechs that have noticeably more tank than others are ones with armor quirks. Otherwise, an open CT is an open CT. 15 points of internals doesn't change the fact that I'm only one volley away from that kill. Shoulders much the same way, although there are a lot less XL checks now.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Jun Watarase, on 31 July 2017 - 06:01 AM, said:

Some of these replies make me realise how entitled some players are.

You mean like the Clan player that's actually got to work for their kills for the first time in the past 3 years?

[Oberost]

Jun Watarase, on 31 July 2017 - 06:01 AM, said:

Some of these replies make me realise how entitled some players are.

You want bad hitboxes? Ok look at the EBJ. Side torsos are extremely easy to isolate, especially with the giant top mounted guns. The CT pretty much screams "shoot me" and you can even hit it from the side just by aiming at the nose.

You cant hit the CTF torsos from the sides because the arms block it.

Poor weapon mounts? Ok, look at the low slung arms on the mad dog. Which also has huge side torsos that are easy to isolate.

Heavy PPC too hot? Try using clan ER PPCs lol, except you are doing 2/3rds of the damage.

Your clan mechs have huge alphas? OK, good luck focusing all of that on one location when your opponent can torso twist half way through your laser burn beause his pulse lasers have a duration of 0.6s or less.

I never realised how much I had to struggle with clan mechs before All those long laser durations spreading damage everywhere and paper thin armor with poor hitboxes. The range advantage is easily negated by using cover unless its a poorly designed map (cough polar highlands cough).

Using IS mechs just feels like playing the game on easy mode now...your mileage may vary.

I have no words...

Why some people always point the downsides of something and forgot the advantages that it has?

Like... 40% less weight, 50% less crit slots, no minimum range, more speed, more range and don't forget the 5 points of splash damage.

Yes, the CERPPC is really awful compared to the HPPC...








No.

Edited by Oberost, 31 July 2017 - 06:47 AM.

[WarHippy]

Well I will say I have said for a long time now that IS mechs feel better to pilot than Clan mechs. Both sides have strong performers, but IS mechs are more enjoyable to pilot. That isn't to say one side or the other is more or less powerful than the other.

I still feel the HPPC should get a little spread instead of 15 pin point as I find it just a tiny bit too good at what it does. 12/1.5/1.5 or 13/1/1 would be fine.

[CK16]

Imo as always the case, specially in IS mechs...it is case by case. To much dependent on quirks and hard to judge..And yes some IS mechs are better then some of thier Clan counterparts in some roles ( I still stand by the feelings that LPL and ER LL spam is an issue...), which by comparison to the other IS mechs makes the balance gap worse.

That being said I have been seeing much more carried drop decks over the past week with the event. Even the try hard meta comps are mixing things up a bit. Which is good if you ask me! Even loadouts are varied I am seeing and seeing moderate success with.

Most of the issues though I think comes down to the 265 v 240 drop deck weights (sorry 2 assaults, a heavy, and a light is quite a nasty drop deck,and alot of tonnage to eat through for the Clans...). But this is being changed sooo maybe we will get so good numbers off the better tonnage gap.

I wouldn't be surprised though if in a few months some of the structure quirks on some IS mechs start getting rolled back a bit.

Edited by CK16, 31 July 2017 - 07:15 AM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

The main difference I have noted is that IS brawl abilities are even better than they were before (and it was a strength before)...a lot of ac20 brawler builds can mount a LFE and have better speed/heat management/firepower than pre-new tech. That plus skill tree survivablity is a big improvement. At range the Clans have the edge still and I don't see much in new tech that moved that needle (so far anyway) the gap has closed a little though. At low mid-range....the ballistics abilities of the IS are vastly improved there and make a difference....the Clan advantage was large at 500 meters and now isn't as big. Under 300 meters, the IS wrecks now if it gets into brawlers vs. brawlers. The Clan small laser and cspl nerfs and the srm 4 spread nerf make it tough for Clans to win at sub-300.

[DivineTomatoes]

Yet more clam whining.

Better nerf IS so clams can have easy mode back.

[Antares102]

Lol, no. If you play clan mechs right I see no IS mech to compete with clan mechs on any level.
Best examples are MAD-IIC with laser vomit, dakka/vomit or MCII especially Deathstrike with 82 alpha using 2xUAC10 which you can do multiple times before overheating.