158 replies to this topic

[PyckenZot]

My experience is dissimilar but probably due to the same cause.

Those rare occasions when I can play outside of EU/US prime-time (respective evenings and afternoons), I find matches much and much more easy. Although being part of the "tiers don't mean **** " club, there is a clear change in drop quality dependent on time of day.

[Kjudoon]

Foxfire kadrpg, on 03 August 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

Did anyone ever consider that maybe Teir 1 Players ARE a little better, and that the lopsided "horrible" matches one experiences at that level is the result of Poor Map Design being illustrated by players that know good cover when they see it?

Your new-to-the game player is going to wander forward until something catches his eye, even if it means descending into an open valley into view of the enemy team. Good players will not.

That's poor map awareness more than poor map design, they look very similar. Other than being too small and catering to arena tactics, the maps are generally good. New players never learned to go into the training grounds with a jumpy light mech and explore.

Tiers need to be divorced 100% from W/L and the upward bias removed, so win lose or draw, your performance drives you down or lifts you up to match you with people you should be matched with. If you suck in a win or carry in a loss, your performance sets your tier... not that you've been carried too high or driven too low by dinglefritzes.

And if you're too L33t or too potato at the game, your wait times are going to be long. Sorry, but you're an edge case that really should not be dictating game development.

But in the end, $$$ is what rules.

Edited by Kjudoon, 03 August 2017 - 07:10 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Oh goody I can't wait..

[Coolant]

Viktor Drake, on 02 August 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

I mean hell the other night I had 3 people on my team that couldn't break 100 damage, one didn't break 50. No way in hell these guys were Tier 1,2 or 3 with those scores.

On any game, on any game mode, at any time, the best players can die just minutes in the game due to factors beyond their control. Their scores may or may not reflect their ability as a pilot. It's why I am a big advocate of unlimited respawn. It is the Great Equalizer. Have a bad 1st life? Have a great 1st life? Over the course of the game and respawns it all evens out and your final score reflects your average.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Foxfire kadrpg, on 03 August 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

Did anyone ever consider that maybe Teir 1 Players ARE a little better, and that the lopsided "horrible" matches one experiences at that level is the result of Poor Map Design being illustrated by players that know good cover when they see it?

Your new-to-the game player is going to wander forward until something catches his eye, even if it means descending into an open valley into view of the enemy team. Good players will not.

Tier 1 players are only relatively better by virtue of experience. It's the difference between potatoes fresh out of the soil, and potatoes that have been sitting on the shelf. Have a matchmaker where you've got 1/4 spud, 1/2 average, and 1/4 good, and you're going to have stomps when all the spuds end up on one side and all the goods end up on the other, as opposed to a matchmaking that prevents spuds from being matched against goods. It has nothing to do with map design.

There are only a handful of map/modes that have existentially poor balance- most have softer issues of imbalance that are loadout sensitive, or need really savvy players in the right machine to really be felt.

[Palor]

I wish I could roll the exp bar back to tier 2.

[Roadbuster]

Reptilizer, on 03 August 2017 - 02:56 AM, said:

You do not win games by damage farming.

You win games by killing efficiently and fast.

That's true, but if people focus on 1 mech, that also means they don't shoot another mech. And that mech should use this fact to deal damage to the other team.
What happens instead is that these mechs don't engage and watch their teammates die.
And that's something a skiled player wouldn't do. Because that's the right moment to strike back and deal alot of damage to the enemy without taking damage yourself.

If your team has a couple of players who can't break 100 dmg, that means they don't know:
a. the map and where they are
b. how to aim
c. how to shoot
d. the position of enemy mechs
e. the position of friendly mechs

And all these things are important for a skilled player.
Even if you get ambushed in an assault mech and know you won't get out of it alive, dealing 100dmg should be no problem.

Can you mess up and end with subpar dmg/score? Sure, it happens to everyone.
Can the same thing happen to half of your team? Not if they have some common sense and a slight clue what's going on, which seems to be hard these days.

Just an example from last night:
Team is informed by scouts where the enemy team is and where it's headed.
Team doesn't react at all and just sits there, ignoring the reported flanking mechs.
When the enemy team finally pushed from 2 sides, I heard surprised screams over voicecom, asking where the enemy mechs came from.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Luminis, on 02 August 2017 - 07:27 PM, said:

The other night?

That's 90% of the matches, at least if you do count the enemy team being stuck with such players as well.

Well I didn't want to come off overally dramatic but yeah, I get quite a few of these type matches. Also about the other team getting stuck with such players as well, well that doesn't often seem the case. My win rate has tanked big time since hitting Tier 1 and I am only moving upward because I am managing to score well enough to at least get "=" in a loss 80% of the time.

[Felicitatem Parco]

My tier 1 matches from last night were a motley medly showing no clear pattern. Several stomps in both directions, several close fights to the end, and my performance ranged from 38 damage swamp-death to several 700 damage matches with resounding victory.

So, tier 1 is not all bad.

[InspectorG]

Jun Watarase, on 02 August 2017 - 06:00 PM, said:

Not sure if its just the time of the day, but I just hit tier one earlier and the wait times are now massive, and the matchmaker seems out of whack. Every match is a lopsided stompfest, 12-0 or 12-1 is very common. Tier 2 matches in general were much more balanced.

I play @9-11PM EST and rarely if ever have to wait more than 20 seconds to get a solo match. Im high T2, and dreading levelling up to T1.

12 v 0 stomps?

Welcome to MWO. Where every snowball has a chance. Players have been speaking about it for years now. Once a team is up by 3-ish, he chance of a snowball happens and if the losing side doesnt know how to deal with it, you get a stomp.

Its the nature of 12 v 12. Thats why many hope for 8 v 8.

[Shifty McSwift]

InspectorG, on 03 August 2017 - 08:46 AM, said:

I play @9-11PM EST and rarely if ever have to wait more than 20 seconds to get a solo match. Im high T2, and dreading levelling up to T1.

12 v 0 stomps?

Welcome to MWO. Where every snowball has a chance. Players have been speaking about it for years now. Once a team is up by 3-ish, he chance of a snowball happens and if the losing side doesnt know how to deal with it, you get a stomp.

Its the nature of 12 v 12. Thats why many hope for 8 v 8.

I was really hoping 8v8 mode would be slotted into FW as a mode between scouting and invasion, 8v8 FW skirmish. A man can dream I guess.

[poltergoost]

i do sub-100 dmg games in my kit fox all the time

what the stats dont show are the 1000+ missiles shot down by the lams... and the lmgs get kills with very little damage on cored mechs

[l33tworks]

On oceanic, over 80% of the time I have to wait 10-15 minutes for a match. Each time, every time. If I get a game in 5 minutes I consider it quick. Then I watch people stream solo Q on twitch and they get a match in like 20 seconds. So yeah it sucks.

Edited by l33tworks, 03 August 2017 - 09:07 AM.

[LordBraxton]

I am tier 2, but I just got back into MWO and now the tier 2 bar is full, as if a single game will put me over the edge to tier 1....

Now you all have me terrified

[Shifty McSwift]

l33tworks, on 03 August 2017 - 08:56 AM, said:

On oceanic, over 80% of the time I have to wait 10-15 minutes for a match. Each time, every time. If I get a game in 5 minutes I consider it quick. Then I watch people stream solo Q on twitch and they get a match in like 20 seconds. So yeah it sucks.

I find you just open yourself up to a second region, I do OCE (~50 ping) and NA (~250 ping), half the time it forces people with the same settings onto OCE servers, half the time you end up on an average ping server. Usually takes at most a minute to get in during almost any time of the day.

[Mystere]

Jun Watarase, on 02 August 2017 - 06:00 PM, said:

... I just hit tier one ...

Viktor Drake, on 02 August 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

I hit Tier 1 about a month or so ago ...

You both have my condolences.

If I may suggest something: get a joystick and enjoy MWO from a different perspective.

[InspectorG]

Shifty McSwift, on 03 August 2017 - 08:50 AM, said:

I was really hoping 8v8 mode would be slotted into FW as a mode between scouting and invasion, 8v8 FW skirmish. A man can dream I guess.

Hell, at this point, scrap CW and just make Solo and Group - Group being the comp/tourney scene.
Both Solo and Group have choice of 12 v 12, 8 v 8, or 4 v 4.

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 02 August 2017 - 06:39 PM, said:

people misunderstand what the point of the tier system is

the only point of the tier system is so tier 1 players who have played hundreds or thousands of games never get matched up with new players who are just starting out.

thats literally the only thing its designed to do. Its not really even a matchmaker. its just there so new players dont get completely rolled.

And then there are the joystick users who periodically switch to G13s and similar devices ...

<maniacal in the background>

InspectorG, on 03 August 2017 - 09:10 AM, said:

Hell, at this point, scrap CW and just make Solo and Group - Group being the comp/tourney scene.
Both Solo and Group have choice of 12 v 12, 8 v 8, or 4 v 4.

Or maybe PGI could work harder/better and scrap the 5 year old filler. <shrugs>

[Finring]

Yes...yes they are.

[Mystere]

GrimRiver, on 02 August 2017 - 08:01 PM, said:

Been T1 for quite a long while and I can safely say, no the games don't improve.

There is always 3 to 4 people with top damage always, no exceptions.

Individual player skill does increase, however overall teamwork doesn't fare that well.

I'm also pretty sure MM will ensure that you lose if you won too many matches by siding you with the weaker links and give the opposing team higher skilled players, even if your team does well and is very coordinated but somehow lose against a team of cherry red CT legged PUGs.

Attributing any kind of "intelligence" to MWO's matchmaker is stretching things way too far.