54 replies to this topic

[Scout Derek]

Dakota1000, on 30 August 2017 - 06:26 PM, said:

Boy, I sure do dislike some of the rules inplace here. No sense in banning a mod to help colorblind people. Should pester Russ about it heavily to get him to rethink his decision.

This is why I'm not green anymore. Opinions aren't agreeable.

[Scout Derek]

If I may ask, where exactly were you modifying these files? I'm curious to know., by where I mean like under user.cfg.... etc.

I'm gunna download that other mod you had and see where those files go real quick.

Edited by Scout Derek, 30 August 2017 - 07:40 PM.

[LordNothing]

Scout Derek, on 30 August 2017 - 07:36 PM, said:

If I may ask, where exactly were you modifying these files? I'm curious to know., by where I mean like under user.cfg.... etc.

I'm gunna download that other mod you had and see where those files go real quick.

all those pak files are really just zip files. it takes some searching but you can usually find what you want. modding usualy goes:

1. figure out where the game keeps its files
2. modifying those files
3. seeing what happens.

all my mods have been for other games though, never bothered with this one (since im not allowed to use them). some games have great modding tools while others have their engine toolkits. some have absolutely nothing to work with and are still moddible through assembly level modification to the exes through complete and utter wizzardry. my favorite games to mod are the ones that can be done with notepad, photoshop, and your modeling program of choice. some games have a dll interface or somesuch where you have to break out your favorite compiler.

Edited by LordNothing, 30 August 2017 - 07:49 PM.

[Scout Derek]

I'll be doing some digging for a bit. I've done it before.

[Smites]

Scout Derek, on 30 August 2017 - 07:28 PM, said:

This is why I'm not green anymore. Opinions aren't agreeable.

Hey, since you were green before... how we can constructively attempt to persuade PGI to let us have this, or implement it themselves?

[Alcom Isst]

Scout Derek, on 30 August 2017 - 07:36 PM, said:

If I may ask, where exactly were you modifying these files? I'm curious to know.

I'm gunna download that other mod you had and see where those files go real quick.

Oh hey the IS Blue-up mod is still there, that's... weird?

Yeah, the color-blind mod contained an edited flash file, one of several used for the UI. I'm hesitant to go into further details as to how it was edited. I was actually concerned that future patches would cause the flash file to become obsolete, and added a disclaimer... I think? The post was deleted so I'm not sure how adamant I was about that issue, but I know I at least marked the mod as being for the 8/15/17 patch.

The IS Blue-up mod has a different edit to the same file, along with several .dds UI texture files with a blue hue.

I was wondering if PGI had issue with me editing a flash file, but they didn't get rid of the IS Blue mod, so... I guess not?

[Scout Derek]

Smites, on 30 August 2017 - 07:50 PM, said:

Hey, since you were green before... how we can constructively attempt to persuade PGI to let us have this, or implement it themselves?

This is a hard one, I'll explain why here in a moment.

Alcom Isst, on 30 August 2017 - 07:54 PM, said:

Oh hey the IS Blue-up mod is still there, that's... weird?

Yeah, the color-blind mod contained an edited flash file, one of several used for the UI. I'm hesitant to go into further details as to how it was edited. I was actually concerned that future patches would cause the flash file to become obsolete, and added a disclaimer... I think? The post was deleted so I'm not sure how adamant I was about that issue, but I know I at least marked the mod as being for the 8/15/17 patch.

The IS Blue-up mod has a different edit to the same file, along with several .dds UI texture files with a blue hue.

I was wondering if PGI had issue with me editing a flash file, but they didn't get rid of the IS Blue mod, so... I guess not?

Hmm.

Judging from what you're saying, the CoC says that you cannot edit the game client files, except the following;

- User.cfg
- Game.cfg
- Attributes.xml
- Actionmaps.xml
- Profile.xml
- Weapongroups.xml
- Changing default save/profile/install locations


With this in mind, I'm assuming the modded files fall under neither of this. When I read the post made by Tina, she makes a broad statement,

Quote

[color="#009933"]This thread is now closed as editing or modding any game files are strictly against the Terms of Use. This mod is considered as an exploit to the game for one individual's advantage against other players which is strictly forbidden. [/color]

Keep in mind that modifying the client files IS against the CoC, however, one, me, can and will say that this is NOT an exploit, in my eyes at least.

The wording she had was poor, or maybe it was very sudden because she was busy, she should've said in a simplier way that modifying to game client files are forbidden, save for what I just listed earlier.

I'll keep looking at where exactly this is, but more than likely I can see why she removed it, but for the wrong wording/reasons.

The reasoning behind the removal is that they fear that the more people modify the client for things like this, the more chances they believe that people will abuse it. Granted, there will be some, not many, but a few. It happens in all games.

However, as stated again, I can't see this as being used as an exploit over other players. I'm assuming with this being said that you only changed the color of the paperdoll.

Here's what gets me though;

Quote

While the use of mods that operate by 'injecting' third-party files rather than directly modifying game files, are prohibited by the Code of Conduct, we generally do not take moderation action against players that use sound mods as long as the mod isn't providing some competitive or unfair advantage.

However, we must stress that if we determine the use of such a mod violates the spirit of the Code of Conduct (by providing an unfair advantage) we reserve the right to take moderation action.

Piranha Games

Unfair....

what's unfair about this mod, specifically? I feel as if we needed more substance from Tina on this particular part. What exactly in this modification of the game is providing an unfair advantage? I'll never know as I do not have access to that mod you posted that was removed... unless the blue UI mod is the same?

Edited by Scout Derek, 30 August 2017 - 08:09 PM.

[Alcom Isst]

Scout Derek, on 30 August 2017 - 08:05 PM, said:

With this in mind, I'm assuming the modded files fall under neither of this. When I read the post made by Tina, she makes a broad statement

The wording she had was poor, or maybe it was very sudden because she was busy, she should've said in a simpler way that modifying to game client files are forbidden, save for what I just listed earlier.

The modded files do not fall under that.

However, there are already mods that edit the game's sound effects to use those from MechWarrior 2-4, which also goes against the CoC. I was aware of this long before, and the PGI representative brought it up when mentioning the flexibility of their modding rules. Considering that they allow aesthetic changes, I determined that substituting UI colors would be allowed, which is what I did.

Scout Derek, on 30 August 2017 - 08:05 PM, said:

Unfair....

what's unfair about this mod, specifically?

The mod changed the damage gradient from yellow->orange->red to blue->yellow->red, which I guess is easier to see? You're technically not getting any additional information, though. Perhaps they determined that the edits to the UI made it easier to identify a mech's damage and was therefore unfair in favor of those using the mod.

Edited by Alcom Isst, 30 August 2017 - 08:22 PM.

[Scout Derek]

Alcom Isst, on 30 August 2017 - 08:16 PM, said:

The modded files do not fall under that.

However, there are already mods that edit the game's sound effects to use those from MechWarrior 2-4, which also goes against the CoC. I was aware of this long before, and the PGI representative brought it up when mentioning the flexibility of their modding rules. Considering that they allow aesthetic changes, I determined that substituting UI colors would be allowed, which is what I did.


The mod changed the damage gradient from yellow->orange->red to blue->yellow->red, which I guess is easier to see? You're technically not getting any additional information, though. Perhaps they determined that the edits to the UI made it easier to identify a mech's damage and was therefore unfair in favor of those using the mod.

Sounds packs were under scrutiny for about a year or two in 2013-2015 until it was finally determined that they provided no real advantage over others.

On the other hand, mainly why this was shot down was because it's something they've never dealt with before. Damage control.

I suggest discussing this with Tina more before anything else is done. I still see it as fair, as you're not getting paperdoll info any faster or anything such as being able to spot the mechs easier.

That's what I'd recommend to do, and If no response, we should chat some more about this here.

[Alcom Isst]

Scout Derek, on 30 August 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

I suggest discussing this with Tina more before anything else is done. I still see it as fair, as you're not getting paperdoll info any faster or anything such as being able to spot the mechs easier.

That's what I'd recommend to do, and If no response, we should chat some more about this here.

Yeah, I sent an inquiry to Tina. I'm waiting for a response now.

[Mcgral18]

Alcom Isst, on 30 August 2017 - 09:01 PM, said:

Yeah, I sent an inquiry to Tina. I'm waiting for a response now.

I've been waiting two years for a response


Good luck

[Smites]

Scout Derek, on 30 August 2017 - 08:05 PM, said:

This is a hard one, I'll explain why here in a moment.

Having read all of that I am still left with one very important question.

Why can't PGI condone a legal mod, as many other game companies have in the past, like Bethesda, and make special reservations for this specifically? It carries none of the legal baggage of sound mods, which could infringe copyright, and makes it clear that they will not tolerate any other unofficial attempts without... at least contacting PGI support.

Furthermore. This was created, maybe in a week, maybe in a month, by a single guy who was bored but wanted to genuinely help the community. He managed to accomplish something that PGI has either deemed not worth the resource investment, or simply not worth their time, and probably embarrassed a few of them in the process but couldn't they... just take his example and create their own with a single intern?

Something can be done here and I'm not seeing a fair reason thus far to crush this mans good work.

Just to be clear. Not going after you, not trying to shoot the messenger. If you can answer this, I'd like to know.

Mcgral18, on 31 August 2017 - 06:01 AM, said:

I've been waiting two years for a response


Good luck

Yeah... why do they keep ignoring that guy, too? He seems like he has a good understanding of the game. I may not always agree with him, but I respect his opinion.

[LordNothing]

i have a hunch that tina's response was really just a one click boilerplate that she maybe only spent a second sending out. the moderation messages tend to be the same and there is some reuse. i bet they didnt even read beyond the word mod.

[Dee Eight]

Are you canadian ? Denying you the ability to use the game you're paying for, because of your visual disability, contradicts your charter rights.PGI being a canadian company is subject to following the laws of the country, which include not violating the charter rights of its citizens.

Edited by Dee Eight, 31 August 2017 - 08:38 AM.

[Tina Benoit]

Modifying the game client is forbidden. Please carefully review the Code of Conduct under the category HACKING / CHEATING / EXPLOITING if you are unclear as to why this mod is not allowed.

See the specifics quoted directly from our Code of Conduct:

The following actions are strictly forbidden:
Discussing the use of hacks, scripts, or cheats.
Displaying or discussing the results of altering or tampering with game client files.
Displaying or discussing the results of injecting third-party files.
Sharing any data not available through normal game-play or official public release.

Please do not argue with the rules of the Code of Conduct. The reason we do not allow users to tamper with or alter game client files is for the sake of the game's stability, it is not at all due to what the mod does in result.
Modding MechWarrior Online is simply not acceptable, even if you consider the mod to be non-advantageous against your opponents, and I hope you can understand how harmful such things could be for the whole community if they were acceptable, just like the reasons LCPL 4 responded on this thread.

We are well aware of the colour blind situation and in result have been implementing elements to the HUD for all new features we've released in our recent patch updates. For example, we've been using shape changes rather than using colours to avoid the unfairness of advantages or disadvantages. These details about features are often written in our Patch Notes when released.