100 replies to this topic

[kapusta11]

justcallme A S H, on 15 August 2017 - 12:03 AM, said:

You've obviously never seen a 12-man linebacker rush done properly.

Was part of 7 man LBK rush on many occasions. How do you field 12 LBKs with group queue limits?

[Shifty McSwift]

Dark Wooki33 IIC, on 15 August 2017 - 12:08 AM, said:

Still the spl build was the most powerfull for a certain time.

Dude I had a 5 SPL arm in my KDK back when they were strong because they performed so well at optimal range, and I didn't HAVE to, I just did cos they were OP lol.

[Dark Wooki33 IIC]

kapusta11, on 15 August 2017 - 12:09 AM, said:

Was part of 7 man LBK rush on many occasions. How do you field 12 LBKs with group queue limits?

You know we are talking about faction play ...
and 3 lbk 12mans in a row followed by some 35-45 ton mech.

[Dark Wooki33 IIC]

Shifty McSwift, on 15 August 2017 - 12:11 AM, said:

Dude I had a 5 SPL arm in my KDK back when they were strong because they performed so well at optimal range, and I didn't HAVE to, I just did cos they were OP lol.

Really? Unquirked 100ton mechs as clan? We may not on the same page here. (also not sure what it has to do with lbk, they had 8/9 spl)

[kapusta11]

Dark Wooki33 IIC, on 15 August 2017 - 12:11 AM, said:

You know we are talking about faction play ...
and 3 lbk 12mans in a row followed by some 35-45 ton mech.

Oh you mean game mode where you fight unorganized pugs half of the time and the other half just people piloting inferior mechs. Sorry I don't see how LBK is stronger now than a bunch of HBKIICs, MADIICs, HBRs, EBJs, ACHs.

[justcallme A S H]

kapusta11, on 15 August 2017 - 12:09 AM, said:

Was part of 7 man LBK rush on many occasions. How do you field 12 LBKs with group queue limits?

Read the thread.

We are talking about Faction Play as has been mentioned at least 3 times now.

[Dark Wooki33 IIC]

kapusta11, on 15 August 2017 - 12:21 AM, said:

Oh you mean game mode where you fight unorganized pugs half of the time and the other half just people piloting inferior mechs. Sorry I don't see how LBK is stronger now than a bunch of HBKIICs, MADIICs, HBRs, EBJs, ACHs.

Sometimes.
I know plenty of people that think that it is the most fun mode if 2 full teams face each other.
And its the shock and awe that makes it brutal not so much the mech itself.

[Shifty McSwift]

Dark Wooki33 IIC, on 15 August 2017 - 12:15 AM, said:

Really? Unquirked 100ton mechs as clan? We may not on the same page here. (also not sure what it has to do with lbk, they had 8/9 spl)

Well it wasn't the only weapons on the mech, and no the comment had nothing to do with factionplay spam group builds like this, it was just in response to how strong SPL were, no matter who was using them, so long as they were able to get in optimal range, SPL arctic cheetah was another example there.

[B0oN]

Assassins ...

[TWIAFU]

The Shortbus, on 15 August 2017 - 12:32 AM, said:

Assassins ...

Shhhh!


Keep the secret! Keep it safe!

[Albino Boo]

The biggest reason for losing to rushes is people poking and not being proactive. In addition don't go into faction play with weapons you are unwilling to brawl with.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Dark Wooki33 IIC, on 14 August 2017 - 10:01 PM, said:

Use the same tactics you would use against light rushs with the difference that lbks dont have jumpjets(or atleast not atm ).
Have people that scout so you get combat id.
Is heavys are way better brawlers in gneral.
On average dont build a firing line, most people dont have the skill/builds to stop the linebackers heads on.
As soon as some o them break trough you are ******.
Better get you asses to the wall, so they cant backstab you, in an area where you can build a killzone (walls on both sides, with some angle at best).
If they cant backstab, they will use more ammo/heat for the kills, so they will get weak over time, it will be a nasty grind and you will need people with guts.
Most important thing, dont run away! (most difficult part with pugs on your side i guess)

Actual its pretty easy to stop them.

All lies....why do you tell them all these false things wooki???

The Linebacker rush cannot be stopped, best thing you can do is turn your backs and run.

Seriously, as wooki, Ash and Bandito have stated...there are effective ways to stop it. Intel/Scouting is probably the biggest key. The second is you have to take some out of the fight early. Legging them at range or killing them. The more that are swarming you the more likely your team will start dropping from backshots. Good teams will prioritize your ballistic brawlers over your laser vomit (which will overheat) and LRM boats (if any poor pugs on your side brought them). Orions are fantastic, tough brawlers, but even they will go down quick to Backshots. As stated even firing lines (particularly without enough open ground (good visability) in front of them) can be flanked or torn straight through (which we at 07' have nicknamed "the Chipotle maneuver"...anyone who has food poisoning from an ethnic restaurant can understand how unpleasant that might be to experience). Yes, mediums can be effective as they can actually surprise and flank a linebacker heavy team than doesn't see them coming...but generally in a 12 v 12 dogfight...the linebackers win that engagement.

Linebackers truly only do one thing well. Pack shorter range (generally) low tonnage weapons on a platform that is tougher than most Clan heavies and maneuvers like a Clan medium. If you can manage to take advantage of that knowledge you can do fine against it.

Edited by Marquis De Lafayette, 15 August 2017 - 06:21 AM.

[Mercer Skye]

One to two scouts, depending on the map

Post Two heavy hitters, back to the gate wall to drop the first couple that come in (Back armor is the softest). Most everywhere, once you know where they're coming in, they can corner up. If those first two coming in actually turn to fight, it bottlenecks the whole team hard, drop gratuitous amounts of red smoke just outside the gate if that happens.

The rest of the team creates two opposing fields of fire (Think V). Gunnery skill is kind of irrelevant there, gate will cram them together. Shoot the mob, drop the mob.

At the least, that's been the most consistently successful strat I've seen, and somewhat easy to coordinate with Pugs. Especially since you can swap lance assignments around and just tell which lance to do what.

[Angel of Annihilation]

For the love of god stop now. Please do not advocate for a nerf on a mech just because of one tactic used by a very few units in FW. Linebackers have to be a decent mech when they aren't used in a 12 man Wolfpack or when they are used in QP.

I am still irritated that JJs got so trashed by the Comp Play crowd whining about how it was unfair that skilled players could out poptart them. It was never really an issue in QP but nope, doesn't matter, so we all got hover jets instead. Yay us.

Seriously though. No one complains about the Linebacker so the mech is not the problem rather it is just that a few units have gotten creative and figured out how to use the mech to their advantage. Hell you could probably accomplish the same thing with all Ebon Jag rush. It would be 15 kph slower but they can also bring a hell of alot more firepower than a Line Backer. Hell you could probably accomplish the same thing with a Stormcrow Rush.

[Tom Sawyer]

As a member of a unit who uses the linebacker rush we use it often to counter the IS Assault wave. Sure we can bring a Clan Assault but then we get forced to use 2 lights. Using a fast hard hitting heavy it often helps counter that tonnage.

I know PGI will nerf the linebacker soon but then again any meta-mech eventually get the bat.

Remember the glory days of the triple ppc thunderbolt? Dual guass-ppc nightgyr? Current assault commandos and assassins?

[Mystere]

Doc Arachinus, on 14 August 2017 - 08:27 PM, said:

Or is any nerf being looked at for them?

[Don T]

Probably won't work. Clanners exploit by coming in 12 identical mechs.

I only see two solutions.

1) Either dropping the tonnage for clanners to 190, so they can't spam identical heavy mechs.

or

2) Nerf all clan heavies and mediums with like 25% less armor and remove 1 or even better 2 weapon pods.


I mean it's obvious as someone noted.. if you nerf the LBK, those exploiters will just use EBJs or SCRs.

Edited by Don T, 15 August 2017 - 11:57 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Don T, on 15 August 2017 - 11:56 AM, said:

Probably won't work. Clanners exploit by coming in 12 identical mechs.

I only see two solutions.

1) Either dropping the tonnage for clanners to 190, so they can't spam identical heavy mechs.

or

2) Nerf all clan heavies and mediums with like 25% less armor and remove 1 or even better 2 weapon pods.


I mean it's obvious as someone noted.. if you nerf the LBK, those exploiters will just use EBJs or SCRs.

But it isn't an exploit, it is a tactic. That is the problem that too many people fail to realize and want to cry nerf about. If the tactic is beating you, find a tactic to counter it. Maybe the counter is 12 Annihilators, all standing shoulder to shoulder blocking the gate, maybe it is something else, but you have to acknowledge that what is going on is a tactic, not an exploit so please don't describe it as such.

Honestly it goes back to what I was saying about the JJ nerf. Poptarting is and was a tactic yet we got nerfed because people failed to develop a counter tactic for it. That is something that need to stop happening with this game. We already have to deal with a nerf happy developer so STOP ADVOCATING FOR NERFS.

Seriously and this isn't directed at the post I quoted specifically but rather everyone reading, stop whining and crying about this or that being unfair and asking to nerf this or nerf that. Sure it may solve your problem now, but it will come around and bite you in the rear because you will find important to you on the chopping block for the next patch. First rule of MWO should be "Never Ask for something to be Nerfed" because PGI will be happy to oblige you by nerfing what you asked for and 12 other things completely unrelated that end up screwing you over as well.

[Mystere]

Viktor Drake, on 15 August 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

Honestly it goes back to what I was saying about the JJ nerf. Poptarting is and was a tactic yet we got nerfed because people who failed to develop a counter tactic for it incessantly and loudly cried on the forums.

FTFY.

[Lucifaust]

Doc Arachinus, on 14 August 2017 - 08:27 PM, said:

Has any one found a effective way to drop these linebacker rushes in faction? even when your group is legging them they are very hard to bring down and can normally take most of you unit with them if not 2 whole waves or more. Or is any nerf being looked at for them? a handful of linebackers isn't bad but a whole 12 man team running them is devastating. and I'm not talking just pug matches here. even in tier 1 groups they are posing a menance to stop. Have been in 2 or 3 drops where they have all gone down without losing a whole wave but that is rare and normally only against low skill players.

no
just no.
.
.
.
we get it, you just got killed by a linebacker, or find they counter your strength so naturally you blow their effectiveness out of proportion in hopes they'll get nerfed so they don't cause you any more inconvenience. This is just a whine thread