216 replies to this topic

[Natred]

Well if you look at the numbers machine guns are efficiant per tonnage but heavy machine guns burn through ammo super fast. Hence the dps ratios.

[GrimRiver]

Arrow - SHC - ACH - MLX - MAL - KGC - ANH are the only mechs that can boat enough MG to be of any real use, no I'm not counting the 4xMG or less crowd.

Arrow - SHC - ACH - MLX can weld them effectively.

MAL - KGC - ANH can use them too, but as an after thought.

If someone fresh died to MG's then chances are they would've died to a PPC under 90m(yes, I know PPC doesn't do damage under 90m, I'm making a statement on how potato they are) because they are just standing there doing nothing and not paying any mind to their surroundings, enough so that an annoying light had to stand there for a full minute just to bring down a fresh mech.

So are MG's stronk? No, not by a long shot if a mech has to boat 6 or more just to be effective with them.

Watch B33f's and Baradul's video on the MLX 8xLMG and how the potatoes they shot just stood there and did nothing.

It's a player issue and NOT a weapon issue.

Edited by GrimRiver, 18 August 2017 - 08:16 AM.

[razenWing]

Ruar, on 18 August 2017 - 07:23 AM, said:

Was the CSPL change a pilot problem?

Why is it that every example given of the problem is written off as pilot error with no possibility that there is a common thread of the weapon being too strong? It's not like there is only one post talking about how fast boated MGs are able to get through armor and pop internals. This has been brought up since the weapons were put on test and yet we keep seeing people say "pilot error" and "get good" as the obvious answer.

It seems there is just no way that the people defending the weapons are the very people who get the most benefit from having them stay overpowered.

The feedback loop of the light pilots in MWO is rather amazing. You guys just reinforce your own misery and amp each other up more and more about how bad light mechs are. Yet everyone else points out that lights consistently do good damage, consistently end up in top placings for the teams, and consistently sway the tempo of the fight. People talk about how they are forced to react to light mech attacks and movements and the light pilots are like "yeah but as soon as we get shot arms and legs just fall off so only the super duper skilled people have it that easy". Yet regular pilots are able to do well in light mechs anyway.

I'd suggest that you guys need to take a step back and try to remove your bias, but it won't happen. You're just going to discard what I say and come up with some other excuse as to why I'm wrong. Probably point out I don't spend much time in light mechs so obviously I hate them which ignores the fact I just don't enjoy playing fast moving anything in any game. I'll also be told I don't understand what it's like despite the fact I periodically spend time in light mechs for the sole purpose of understanding them better and also try out new builds so I can understand how to defeat them.

So please, continue on about how the MGs are just fine, that it's everyone else that is wrong, while you sit squarely inside the "woe is me" light mech bubble.

There may be possible issues with weapons. But a single incident with dubious claim is definitely not you support for the case of a possible broken weapon. That's all I'm illustrating.

[Wildstreak]

The Zohan, on 18 August 2017 - 05:27 AM, said:

And that makes cSSRM not suck? Mmmkay

Both Streaks suck because of one main issue, needing lockon, secondary would be from some people damage spread.
Still Clan Streaks also now have another advantage IS does not have.

With ATMs, a plain ATM boat has to worry about GH, limit from 2-4 depending on launcher shared in same group with LRMs so mixing ATMs and LRMs still hits those GH caps.
A plain Clan Streak boat has to worry about GH, limit 3 on 4 and 6, no limit on 2.

Clan Streaks and ATMs do not share the same GH group so you should be able to mix boat Streaks and ATMs, those who have used ATMs say they are best in the short range that Streaks work anyway due to ATM damage scaling and both need lock-on. Probably best with cSSRM4 since the cooldown of 4.5 is close to all ATMs having 5 cooldowns.

Name the IS Mech that can do that, mix their Streaks with another lockon missile weapon to avoid GH limits with good damage in the same range as Streaks and needs lockons.

Edited by Wildstreak, 20 August 2017 - 04:29 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

The MLX-G arms are huge and made of paper. Streaks love arms.

This. I had a Streakcrow.

First salvo and I'd stripped the arms, second one and it was missing one arm and most of the other. Heck, I tend to tear the arms off MLX's even with LRM/ATM fire, they're not quite shot traps but they're so huge even missiles I think will hit leg tend to splat on the arm gunpod instead.

[Strength Damage Cliff Racer]

It's not boating MGs that OP, it's practice of boating at it's core. Take for example 5MPL K9 - As long as you got yourself a rock and enemy is close enough, you can 1v1 zeus without oranging your armour.
If you will manage to get to that rock.
If enemy will be isolated and won't cripple you in one of many HDPA ways
If you won't be smoked out with arty spam.

That's what boating does — try to dodge all the problems with piloting/positioning/cheesy hardpoints and maximize your strength. Off course everyone playing by boater rules loses.But your mech got the power of modification, so fight broken with broken! Tripple AMS with ECM meets the LRM40-100 abominations, 9MPL marauder gets it's face eaten with SRM54 Archer, 8MG Myst Lynx left in the middle of nowhere armless and legged by 6ERSL, SSRM24/36 Stormcrow/Mad Dog, half your team dies on HPG to Dual HGR Cyclops…

[Tarogato]

Strength Damage Cliff Racer, on 13 January 2018 - 11:07 AM, said:

It's not boating MGs that OP, it's practice of boating at it's core. [...]

That's what boating does — try to dodge all the problems with piloting/positioning/cheesy hardpoints and maximize your strength. Off course everyone playing by boater rules loses.But your mech got the power of modification, so fight broken with broken! Tripple AMS with ECM meets the LRM40-100 abominations, 9MPL marauder gets it's face eaten with SRM54 Archer, 8MG Myst Lynx left in the middle of nowhere armless and legged by 6ERSL, SSRM24/36 Stormcrow/Mad Dog, half your team dies on HPG to Dual HGR Cyclops…

And your alternative is... ?

[Admiral-Dan]

Strength Damage Cliff Racer, on 13 January 2018 - 11:07 AM, said:

...

Edited by AlphaEtOmega, 13 January 2018 - 11:47 AM.

[Antares102]

A mod please close this thread.
I hate necroing threads!

[Strength Damage Cliff Racer]

Antares102, on 13 January 2018 - 11:46 AM, said:

A mod please close this thread.
I hate necroing threads!

Necroing suggest that topic is no longer actual. But hey, it still is!

Tarogato, on 13 January 2018 - 11:44 AM, said:

And your alternative is... ?

What alternative? Why alternative? "Broken Meets Broken" Balance system is best system around.

[Tordin]

Its just mindnumbingly dumb beyond reason if the MG's gets nerfed of all things. Getting nerfed because of a few mechs that can boat them TO A DEGREE OF USEFULNESS.. Guess what. Blanket nerfing MG for Clan and IS will make those which can boat a small amount of mg, especially lights have another use for them GONE. Since lights cant make too much use out of heavier ballistics. Theres still a massive tonnage gap between 0.25, 0.5, 1.0 and several tonnes heavier AC 2's.

Its like ruining new years eve by not allowing the majority buy rockets, because last years some drunk dimwits decided to fire those rockets on a windful night in a city!

Odd analogue I know.

But in short. Ruining all other lights ability to make some use out of MG (2 - 4) because a few others can boat more than them ( 6 - 12 )

[C E Dwyer]

Well one can argue that asking for mech where boating them was really dumb, but not as dumb as P.G.I looking for the dollar rather than using common sense, and rejecting mechs that can boat so many.

yeah yeah potatoes yeah yeah if only they did this or that, if only they had sillz blah blah

Fact is they don't and these are the bulk of P.G.I's income, piss enough off and you havn't got nerfed of un nerfed MG's you got no MG's.

It's very very easy to take an ECM mech with boated LMG's and shred mechs in seconds from the rear.

A very very intellgent pilot waits until the target mech is engaged where possible so they don't know where the ping ping is coming from.

because of the boating range will end up nerfed, if not rate of fire as well whether it happens with the next patch or when phiranna goes for C-bills it will happen

[Y E O N N E]

Waiting makes the assumption that your team won't melt while you wait.

[LordNothing]

mgs still cant be used as primary weapons. i dont care how effective they are against open sections. thats in their element and i expect them to function well there. then you see a guy who's machine guns cant punch through their target's armor while they take laser or ballistic fire. even when i put 8 of them on a lynx, they are secondary to the small lasers that go along with them. when we get pure machine gun piranhas then you will see that they just kind of hide in the back and let others open targets up for them before they attack. i expect to see many of them failing to kill off that one target with full armor and a potato at the controls you often find at the end of matches.

[Y E O N N E]

Yeah.

There is a very good reason I still take 3 Heavy Medium Lasers even when I have 7x MGs worth of rattatat.

[draiocht]

[mod]At the original poster's request, this thread is now closed.

Please move tangential discussions to relevant or new threads
that may better reflect the topic with the current state of the game.[/mod]

Edited by draiocht, 13 January 2018 - 06:43 PM.