42 replies to this topic

[Thorqemada]

Probably to increase the poorformance on low end Computers...changes in the Workhorseforce...things like that...

[Cyborne Elemental]

I'm amazed at how much better looking the old MWO looked too.

But anyway, back to CASE.

(Mostly in reference to InnerSphere C.A.S.E.)

1. Should Gauss explosions be blocked or reduced by CASE?

2. Should CASE block damage transfers during an ammo or Gauss explosion from as well as towards (from arm-->Torso, from legs---CTengine)?

3. Should CASE Autoeject damaged or exploding ammunition?

4. Should CASE reduce crit % to exposed weapons and equipment?

Discuss.

Edited by The Trojan Titan, 22 August 2017 - 12:06 PM.

[Aiden Skye]

Wow lots of silly ideas being tossed around in here...especially those based around making IS case strictly superior just because clan omni's come with it not that anyone really cares. But hey lets make case crit proof IS mechs and boost armor by 20%...really?

[Khobai]

1) IS-C.A.S.E. should work like C.A.S.E. II and you should only suffer 1 damage from ammo explosions (applied to the rear if its in a torso location)

2) Clan-C.A.S.E should work like regular C.A.S.E., not C.A.S.E. II, so basically it would stay the same as it is now. The clan version should be worse since its free. However clans should be able to pay tonnage/crits just like IS to use C.A.S.E. II if they want to upgrade from the free C.A.S.E. they normally get.

3) ammo ejection should be added to the game. if you select a weapon and press ctrl-k it should manually eject all ammo for the selected weapon. that way you can dump ammo for weapons like the AC20 if they get critted out.

4) ammo explosions should be 100% chance for 10% of the damage instead of 10% chance for 100% of the damage. that makes ammo explosions way less RNG and even 10% damage is enough to destroy mechs outright. That puts an emphasis on taking C.A.S.E.

Quote

4. Should CASE reduce crit % to exposed weapons and equipment?

No. C.A.S.E. is only for ammo. weapons and equipment dont go in C.A.S.E.

Edited by Khobai, 22 August 2017 - 01:15 PM.

[Funk1777]

I like the idea for ammo ejection, that would be fun and add a bit of tactical gameplay.

Wait, case doesnt currently protect gauss weapon destruction from spreading? I mean I know it does as I run it with the heavy gauss mauler that loses it's ST's all the time, but does it work only half-assed or something?

Edited by Funk1777, 22 August 2017 - 01:52 PM.

[Thorqemada]

CASE in Battletech works wrong - a CASE is an ammocontainer that protects all sourrounding structure in the way that if an ammo explosion happens it directs the explosion in a certain a way that does not harm the ammo carrier - you only have no more ammo at that Location where the CASE is equiped - after the explosion the CASE is empty, Location itself is still fully functional.

In Battletech/Mechwarrior CASE works not like a Container but like a Firewall that prevents the explosion to damage neighbouring Locations which is not a "Cellular Ammunition Storage Equipment" at all...

[Cyborne Elemental]

Thorqemada, on 22 August 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

CASE in Battletech works wrong - a CASE is an ammocontainer that protects all sourrounding structure in the way that if an ammo explosion happens it directs the explosion in a certain a way that does not harm the ammo carrier - you only have no more ammo at that Location where the CASE is equiped - after the explosion the CASE is empty, Location itself is still fully functional.

In Battletech/Mechwarrior CASE works not like a Container but like a Firewall that prevents the explosion to damage neighbouring Locations which is not a "Cellular Ammunition Storage Equipment" at all...

Here is somebody who knows whats going on.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

Why is it that the beta looks and sounds so much better than the game we have today?

Attempts to ease the strain the game put on low-powered computers.

Also, if you want to give IS CASE a boost, you can always have it reduce critical damage to anything in the ST (which also reduces structure damage caused by same).

[Johnny Z]

CASE is behind weapons, speed, armor, ECM, AMS. What can change that? Yet another example of how its easier and maybe even better to nerf, in this instance Clan CASE.

[Johnny Z]

W A R K H A N, on 22 August 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

Wow lots of silly ideas being tossed around in here...especially those based around making IS case strictly superior just because clan omni's come with it not that anyone really cares. But hey lets make case crit proof IS mechs and boost armor by 20%...really?

Armor boost is what the tonnage and space requires. Or something similar. It is tonnage and space after all and it is something every clan mech section gets tonnage and space free.

Purely defensive tonnage and space for Inner Sphere mechs vrs the Clan CASE? Good call.

Even with a few points of armor does the tonnage and space cost equal firepower? Everyone knows that isn't so.

Edited by Johnny Z, 22 August 2017 - 02:44 PM.

[Shadowomega1]

Thorqemada, on 22 August 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

CASE in Battletech works wrong - a CASE is an ammocontainer that protects all sourrounding structure in the way that if an ammo explosion happens it directs the explosion in a certain a way that does not harm the ammo carrier - you only have no more ammo at that Location where the CASE is equiped - after the explosion the CASE is empty, Location itself is still fully functional.

In Battletech/Mechwarrior CASE works not like a Container but like a Firewall that prevents the explosion to damage neighbouring Locations which is not a "Cellular Ammunition Storage Equipment" at all...

Yet, it's far harder to contain multiple tons worth of explosives. CASE like systems on modern tanks only has to deal with 42 rounds of mixed ammo types weighing 42 to 55 lbs a shell. Furthermore BT ammo tends to the higher yield than modern munitions, with higher weight per shell.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

CASE in Battletech works wrong - a CASE is an ammocontainer that protects all sourrounding structure in the way that if an ammo explosion happens it directs the explosion in a certain a way that does not harm the ammo carrier - you only have no more ammo at that Location where the CASE is equiped - after the explosion the CASE is empty, Location itself is still fully functional.

CASE functions like crew-saving containment systems on tanks- it's designed to direct the explosion away from the center torso, preserving the integrity of the Battlemech if not it's function. They're blowout panels, not a full containment system. Clan CASE is an intermediate, higher-tech step towards CASE II that can preserve side torsos from limbs going boom but not stop the limb from being destroyed in the process..

CASE II is a stronger version of this, and uses the extra tonnage to channel an explosion into a more compact form through venting in the back armor(or just into the armor layer, if an arm/leg)- destroying it but dealing minimal additional damage to structure in the process (although it does mean another potential critical hit, and yes that can mean a chain of ammo explosions if another location is damaged). This also means it's compact enough to be used to vent through other armor sections, meaning it can also be used on the limbs.

In TT, an ammo explosion that destroys the CT also obliterates the unit- grats, your multimillion C-bill ride is now confetti, and if you were still in it, they might find a genetic sample somewhere in a two-kilometer radius of the bang. MWO is far kinder, both in detonation odds and the results.

Edited by Brain Cancer, 22 August 2017 - 03:57 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

W A R K H A N, on 22 August 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

Wow lots of silly ideas being tossed around in here...especially those based around making IS case strictly superior just because clan omni's come with it not that anyone really cares. But hey lets make case crit proof IS mechs and boost armor by 20%...really?

Clan BattleMechs come with it, too.

And, at the moment, Clan C.A.S.E. is strictly superior because it costs not one, single thing. And it means more to the IS than the Clans because, if the Gauss goes in that XL side torso, so does the 'Mech.

That said, I agree crit-proofing and boosting structure is silly. Redirecting the damage to zero from an explosion is enough.

[Shadowomega1]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 August 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

Clan BattleMechs come with it, too.

And, at the moment, Clan C.A.S.E. is strictly superior because it costs not one, single thing. And it means more to the IS than the Clans because, if the Gauss goes in that XL side torso, so does the 'Mech.

That said, I agree crit-proofing and boosting structure is silly. Redirecting the damage to zero from an explosion is enough.

You do realize even with CASE a gauss in an IS mech with an XL will still be a kill right, as the case just keeps it from spreading to the next area. Crit a Gauss Torso mounted IS mech with an XL that torso is a lose, only CASE II could avoid that (Explosion destroyed the back armor); however with internals exposed that torso isn't going to last long.

As for MWO an ammo/Gauss explosions we don't even see a third of the risk that MW3/4, the tabletop and books. There is no through armor penetration weapons or ammo types, no ammo cook off due to running the mech to hot for to long, no faulty ammo or miss fire chances. The only chance of an internal explosion is if someone get a lucky crit hit while your armor was ripped off, and at that point your mech is very close to getting splattered.

Now if you want arm mounted cases to keep that from transferring to the ST then that is different. As for wanting CASE II that would have to be within the current civil war timeline and Sarna doesn't have a mass production date for CASE II. If someone has the CGL tech manual they can give us a date for it. In the meantime they could introduce clan CASE as "salvage" or traded via Clan Diamond Shark for a hefty premium.

[Y E O N N E]

Shadowomega1, on 22 August 2017 - 09:42 PM, said:

You do realize even with CASE a gauss in an IS mech with an XL will still be a kill right, as the case just keeps it from spreading to the next area.

Read my post on the previous page. Then come back here.

[Shadowomega1]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 August 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

Clan BattleMechs come with it, too.

And, at the moment, Clan C.A.S.E. is strictly superior because it costs not one, single thing. And it means more to the IS than the Clans because, if the Gauss goes in that XL side torso, so does the 'Mech.
That said, I agree crit-proofing and boosting structure is silly. Redirecting the damage to zero from an explosion is enough.

Let me highlight the sentence that I was pointing out in my post. Some reason the forums are letting me set a color for that.

Edited by Shadowomega1, 23 August 2017 - 05:44 AM.

[Mcgral18]

W A R K H A N, on 22 August 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

Wow lots of silly ideas being tossed around in here...especially those based around making IS case strictly superior just because clan omni's come with it not that anyone really cares. But hey lets make case crit proof IS mechs and boost armor by 20%...really?

You realize it SHOULD be outright superior, right?
Costing a half ton vs NOTHING

#ClamBalanceThoughts

[Y E O N N E]

Shadowomega1, on 23 August 2017 - 05:42 AM, said:

Let me highlight the sentence that I was pointing out in my post. Some reason the forums are letting me set a color for that.

Yeonne Greene, on 19 August 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

The most meta Gauss is indeed arm-mounted, but that is something of a fringe benefit and there is no reason to hamper 'Mechs that have ballistics in the sides.

Really, what I want to see is CASE negating the damage entirely so you can stuff it in with an XL. That has been a huge limiter for far too long. And no, I don't want CASE II for that, it's already +0.5 tons on top of 15.

[KursedVixen]

AncientRaig, on 19 August 2017 - 09:34 PM, said:

Why is it that the beta looks and sounds so much better than the game we have today?

PGI constantly messing with the code.

Shadowomega1, on 22 August 2017 - 09:42 PM, said:

You do realize even with CASE a gauss in an IS mech with an XL will still be a kill right, as the case just keeps it from spreading to the next area. Crit a Gauss Torso mounted IS mech with an XL that torso is a lose, only CASE II could avoid that (Explosion destroyed the back armor); however with internals exposed that torso isn't going to last long.

As for MWO an ammo/Gauss explosions we don't even see a third of the risk that MW3/4, the tabletop and books. There is no through armor penetration weapons or ammo types, no ammo cook off due to running the mech to hot for to long, no faulty ammo or miss fire chances. The only chance of an internal explosion is if someone get a lucky crit hit while your armor was ripped off, and at that point your mech is very close to getting splattered.

Now if you want arm mounted cases to keep that from transferring to the ST then that is different. As for wanting CASE II that would have to be within the current civil war timeline and Sarna doesn't have a mass production date for CASE II. If someone has the CGL tech manual they can give us a date for it. In the meantime they could introduce clan CASE as "salvage" or traded via Clan Diamond Shark for a hefty premium.

oh there is plenty of ammo cook off turn on override with a mech full of ammo, whatch as your ammo starts exploding.

Thorqemada, on 22 August 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

CASE in Battletech works wrong - a CASE is an ammocontainer that protects all sourrounding structure in the way that if an ammo explosion happens it directs the explosion in a certain a way that does not harm the ammo carrier - you only have no more ammo at that Location where the CASE is equiped - after the explosion the CASE is empty, Location itself is still fully functional.

In Battletech/Mechwarrior CASE works not like a Container but like a Firewall that prevents the explosion to damage neighbouring Locations which is not a "Cellular Ammunition Storage Equipment" at all...

Where does that explosion go, genius?

Case Directs the explosion out the back of the mech, you cannot simply contain the explosion without some other effect.

http://www.sarna.net...orage_Equipment

And I quote: "CASE is essentially a specialized container structure for housing the equipment, and redirects explosive force in the event that the equipment explodes. While this makes it invaluable for preventing excessive internal damage, CASE does not actually stop the explosion, it merely contains and redirects the explosive force........"

Mcgral18, on 23 August 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

You realize it SHOULD be outright superior, right?
Costing a half ton vs NOTHING

#ClamBalanceThoughts

Anything that happens to IS CASE will likely happen to Clan CASE, because it's very likely that they are the same thing in code,Aka in nerd speak Using the same variable.

Edited by KursedVixen, 23 August 2017 - 11:06 AM.

[Archer Magnus]

AncientRaig, on 19 August 2017 - 09:34 PM, said:

Why is it that the beta looks and sounds so much better than the game we have today?

I was going to say the same thing!