45 replies to this topic

[L1f3H4ck]

I wish people would stop trowing that term around like it's candy. I have no idea where they got that sense of entitlement from, crying p2w every time a hero mech can do something that a CBill variant can't. Too bad you're poor or just refuse to pay, and I guess you people need some buzzword to rally around, but pay 2 win is a different beat entirely.

There are games which require you to spend money in order to have any hope of being competitive and MWO is not one if them.

"But the Purifier..." is still a crappy mech, it'sjust a bit less crappy than the other Kit Foxes. I've seen the phrase "pay 2 optimize", and it's a bit closer to the truth.

The people who call it p2w should just be honest and admit that they want everything for free and will throw a tantrum if they don't get it. And I'm a bit disapointed by PGI for caving on the issue.

[Lostdragon]

I feel where you are coming from, but with PGI's pattern of releasing OP/powercreep mechs then nerfing them later it is hard not to feel they are trying to entice money out of players with a "pay2win for a couple months until we nerf this and release a new powercreep mech" strategy. I may just still be bitter over how hard they unnecessarily nerfed the Spirit Bear, though.

[Alan Davion]

I think the real problem is unfortunately PGI itself.

Unlike say, oh let's just go for the top, Wargaming.net, who have offices in the US, Europe and Russia/Asia/Whatever, who are also a huge company with hundreds of people working for them, PGI has, what? Can't be more than about 50 people working for them. It's certainly not in the triple digits.

With that small a company the quality assurance is going to be absolute [Redacted] when compared to someone like Wargaming, and while, at the very core, games like World of Tanks/Warships and MWO work on the same principles, movement, shooting and a few other details, that's where the similarities stop.

With WoT/WoW, 90% of the vehicles in those games are essentially perfectly balanced against each other, with the remaining 10% being the outliers, some of them you can get normally, others you can only buy, and a select few you can't get at all at this point.

The Tier 10 Destroyer Khabarovsk from WoWs, is a perfect example of an OPAF ship, but that's just one ship out of, got to be close to 50 or more ships in WoWs, what with Royal Navy Battleships coming soon.

With MWO, the balance is all over the place, with some mechs being broke as [Redacted] since the start and basically useless, and then the constant nerfs when one mech climbs just a little too high over the carcasses of the others, and they have been ever since the introduction of the Clans, from that point on PGI has been locked in the never ending cycle of power creep and nerf.

Everytime a new mech comes out in MWO it's got to be somehow better than the mech that came before it, and if it's not well we see it all the time with the "This or that mech is DOA, and here's why" threads.

PGI would literally have to start at ZERO again in order to try and balance this game properly, and we all know that's not going to happen.

Edited by draiocht, 08 August 2017 - 09:27 AM.
inappropriate language

[LowSubmarino]

Ravenous Starling, on 08 August 2017 - 08:17 AM, said:

I wish people would stop trowing that term around like it's candy. I have no idea where they got that sense of entitlement from, crying p2w every time a hero mech can do something that a CBill variant can't. Too bad you're poor or just refuse to pay, and I guess you people need some buzzword to rally around, but pay 2 win is a different beat entirely.

There are games which require you to spend money in order to have any hope of being competitive and MWO is not one if them.

"But the Purifier..." is still a crappy mech, it'sjust a bit less crappy than the other Kit Foxes. I've seen the phrase "pay 2 optimize", and it's a bit closer to the truth.

The people who call it p2w should just be honest and admit that they want everything for free and will throw a tantrum if they don't get it. And I'm a bit disapointed by PGI for caving on the issue.

you prolly said that too when kodiak was only available for mc.

Prolly said that too when summoner loyalty omnipods were not available to the entire community.

You prolly say that without using your brainz.

Your post doesnt make any sense.

Mwo has been p2win in the past and still is at times.

Thats how it is. You can cry, whine or run around naked.

Thats how it is nonetheless

[Metus regem]

Alan Davion, on 08 August 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

The Tier 10 Destroyer Khabarovsk from WoWs, is a perfect example of an OPAF ship, but that's just one ship out of, got to be close to 50 or more ships in WoWs, what with Royal Navy Battleships coming soon.

And even then, it is still only a destroyer.... Get a good cruiser captain after it and it still dies rather easily.

[Trenchbird]

oneda, on 08 August 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

you prolly said that too when kodiak was only available for mc.

Prolly said that too when summoner loyalty omnipods were not available to the entire community.

You prolly say that without using your brainz.

Your post doesnt make any sense.

Mwo has been p2win in the past and still is at times.

Thats how it is. You can cry, whine or run around naked.

Thats how it is nonetheless

Too bad the one thing that P2W doesn't pay for is common sense. I've 1v2'ed Kodiak 3s in an SRM Brawler Huntsman (and won), and I've seen Summoner PPC Nipple jumpers die like the pathetic dogs they are. In MWO, "p2w" units are still only as effective as those they pilot can make them.

Edited by Catten Hart, 08 August 2017 - 09:02 AM.

[Antares102]

I just see P2W accusations as an excuse for people that constantly get killed and use every opportunity to shift the blame somewhere else.

[MadRover]

The term "p2w" has always been used carelessly I'm wondering why people care. If I can take a MADIIC (which is still the best Clan assault mech in the game when built and played properly) and kick a MCII's teeth in or whatever, how is that p2w? That's a thing called skill and money can't buy skill.

It's just like the word "overpowered." It is used so carelessly why should PGI care at this point? Nothing in this game is p2w or overpowered unless you can prove how. Otherwise skill is overpowered and should be nerfed by straight up prohibiting players from playing or giving those players so many handicaps against them it's no longer fun which will drive them away and hurt the bottom line that PGI has.

So tired of the misuse of these terms. Before you start on saying "but you bought..." I played the MDD, MADIIC, MAD, ACH, and strangely the Wolfhound (trial) and did well with those mechs for the past 3 or 4 months.

[LowSubmarino]

Catten Hart, on 08 August 2017 - 09:02 AM, said:

Too bad the one thing that P2W doesn't pay for is common sense. I've 1v2'ed Kodiak 3s in an SRM Brawler Huntsman (and won), and I've seen Summoner PPC Nipple jumpers die like the pathetic dogs they are. In MWO, "p2w" units are still only as effective as those they pilot can make them.

Dumbest thing ive read here in a while.

Specially back then kodiak was 10 times stronger than any other assault by such a huge margin that op and completly imba was the understatment of the universe.

But im not surprised you either dont know or dont remember that reading your brainless post.

[Appogee]

This topic totally needed a new thread.

Because the one that's been at the top of the forum for the last two hours just wasn't enough.

[Alan Davion]

Metus regem, on 08 August 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:

And even then, it is still only a destroyer.... Get a good cruiser captain after it and it still dies rather easily.

Provided that cruiser has torpedoes, cause cruiser guns are useless. Mighty Jingles just did a video recently talking about it.

The Khab's 50mm of armor isn't enough for cruiser AP shell fuses to activate, so they overpen 99% of the time, there's no citadel where they can get jammed up in for the fuse to activate either.

That 50mm of armor is also apparently enough to bounce or shatter cruiser HE shells as well, and Destroyers and their minimal superstructure make HE even harder to use. Hell, Jingles said that whenever most people see a Khab they just straight up ignore it cause they know their guns are useless against it.

So yeah, torpedoes are really the only weapon that's useful against the Khab.

[Trenchbird]

oneda, on 08 August 2017 - 09:05 AM, said:

Dumbest thing ive read here in a while.

Specially back then kodiak was 10 times stronger than any other assault by such a huge margin that op and completly imba was the understatment of the universe.

But im not surprised you either dont know or dont remember that reading your brainless post.

Well, at least it was only the dumbest post on here for a short time. Because then your wonderful response was posted, and this brain-dead nonsense far surpasses any dumb thing I could type.

Edited by Catten Hart, 08 August 2017 - 09:40 AM.

[Metus regem]

Alan Davion, on 08 August 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

Provided that cruiser has torpedoes, cause cruiser guns are useless. Mighty Jingles just did a video recently talking about it.

The Khab's 50mm of armor isn't enough for cruiser AP shell fuses to activate, so they overpen 99% of the time, there's no citadel where they can get jammed up in for the fuse to activate either.

That 50mm of armor is also apparently enough to bounce or shatter cruiser HE shells as well, and Destroyers and their minimal superstructure make HE even harder to use. Hell, Jingles said that whenever most people see a Khab they just straight up ignore it cause they know their guns are useless against it.

So yeah, torpedoes are really the only weapon that's useful against the Khab.

Ramming works too.

I find it's a tactic that a lot of people underestimate and often ignore...

[Mcgral18]

There's no other way to view it
Having $$ only variants being overwhelmingly superior to free variants is bad.

That is extraordinarily true for the Cute Fox, no matter if it's a middling robot at best.
Dragon Slayer was the best, and $$ only, for months on end.
DeathStrike is also a contender, but not much better than the 1


You can spin it how you want, but it's poor practice for a F2P game
You pay for cosmetics and extra payouts, not superior performance.

[Mystere]

oneda, on 08 August 2017 - 09:05 AM, said:

Dumbest thing ive read here in a while.

Specially back then kodiak was 10 times stronger than any other assault by such a huge margin that op and completly imba was the understatment of the universe.

But im not surprised you either dont know or dont remember that reading your brainless post.

Well, your post is another instance of some of the dumbest things I have read in the history of MWO, claiming a 10X performance differential without providing any shred of quantitative evidence.

Catten Hart, on 08 August 2017 - 09:19 AM, said:

Well, at least it was only the dumbest post on here for a short time. Because then your wonderful response was posted, and this brain-dead nonsense far surpasses any dumb thing I could type.

Edited by Mystere, 08 August 2017 - 10:44 AM.

[Obadiah333]

Mcgral18, on 08 August 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

There's no other way to view it
Having $$ only variants being overwhelmingly superior to free variants is bad.

That is extraordinarily true for the Cute Fox, no matter if it's a middling robot at best.
Dragon Slayer was the best, and $$ only, for months on end.
DeathStrike is also a contender, but not much better than the 1


You can spin it how you want, but it's poor practice for a F2P game
You pay for cosmetics and extra payouts, not superior performance.

The real tragedy here is that I do not foresee this trend diminishing, only increasing as time goes on. The more desperate PGI gets for money, the more blatant they will be with the P2W aspects of mech sales.

[MechaBattler]

Not helping with that title. People will no doubt think this is some epidemic. Doesn't take much these days for people cry the sky is falling.

You can buy those mechs. It won't make you any better. How many of them even do something that existing C-bill mechs can't do? I don't mean specific to that variant. But if there exists any mech that can do the same then the 'advantage' doesn't matter.

Edited by MechaBattler, 08 August 2017 - 12:00 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Catten Hart, on 08 August 2017 - 09:02 AM, said:

In MWO, "p2w" units are still only as effective as those they pilot can make them.

I don't think you understand what determines P2W status if you think pilot skill comes into the equation. You could kill people with the "gold ammo" from WoT too, doesn't change the fact it is P2W.

[Asym]

Lostdragon, on 08 August 2017 - 08:27 AM, said:

I feel where you are coming from, but with PGI's pattern of releasing OP/powercreep mechs then nerfing them later it is hard not to feel they are trying to entice money out of players with a "pay2win for a couple months until we nerf this and release a new powercreep mech" strategy. I may just still be bitter over how hard they unnecessarily nerfed the Spirit Bear, though.

P2W isn't a sales strategy. P2W is a gamplay strategy: competitive players must go this route.....

PGI is nerfing to increase sales: period. It's more a "bait-and-switch" event where the post Nerf'd mech you bought is x% less effective, no matter what you do in the slkill tree, almost forcing you to buy something else.... And, if you don't, well, too bad.

I think the OP is correct; MWO isn't a P2W platform; even though, the micro-sales of Hero's is as much a financial enticement (the 30% CB Upgrade) which is really necessary due to the skill tree mastering process.

JMOpinion

[C E Dwyer]

Lostdragon, on 08 August 2017 - 08:27 AM, said:

I feel where you are coming from, but with PGI's pattern of releasing OP/powercreep mechs then nerfing them later it is hard not to feel they are trying to entice money out of players with a "pay2win for a couple months until we nerf this and release a new powercreep mech" strategy. I may just still be bitter over how hard they unnecessarily nerfed the Spirit Bear, though.

Uziel kind of throws that argument out the window.

Yes you are bitter about the spirit bear as it still wrecks face, thought it has been over hauled by the Madrauder 2 and the Madcat 2