22 replies to this topic

[JediPanther]

Rather than add to the thousands of topics about lrms/atms crying about buffs/ nerfs I've decided why the hell not make a sticky thread of every counter against them? List and add all the counters you know of and use or have seen some one else use. Update as new counters are made,invented, and added to the game. Use the counters you spuds.

1. ECM
2. AMS with AMS Ammo
3. Laser AMS
4. Rocks
5. Walls
6. Enemy mechs stand/move next to them
7. Friendly mechs stand/move next to them
8. Radar deprivation skill tree nodes
9. Hills
10. Lower/higher ground
11. Invisible wall bugs
12. Move left/right as they arc down to impact
13. Ams Skill tree nodes
14. Shoot down Enemy uav.
15. Kill the Narc-er.
16. Kill the tag-er
17. Kill the lrm/atm spotter.
18. Dual/Tripile AMS Example: Kitfox 3x ams, jester 2x ams
19. Run towards the lrm-er/general direction of lrm boat
20. Move to cover, power down break lock,power on and resume fight.
21. Send lights/fast mechs to flank lrm boats.
22. Git Gud
23. Shoot back. Lrm boats hate daka. Even an ac 2 will get one to move.
24. Air Strike lrm boat.
25. Artillery Strike lrm boat
26. Use team work?!
27. FLASHING INCOMING WARNING! PAY THE **** ATTENTION!
28. Audio warning of bitching betty! Are you deaf? See above counter if you are.

28 Counters. That is me alone a founder who spent a great deal as a lrm Catapult in closed beta the past five years can come up with. I've done cw for two years and do solo que mostly now. Seriously if you want to avoid lrms use one if not all the dam counters. If I had half as many warnings about laser/ppc/guass I would never take damage in my lights.

Potato on spuds. I carry you no more.

[qS Sachiel]

#22 is apt.

I don't LRM much, particularly on IS mechs.
I do however use ATMs on my shadowcat (ATMx18) and ECM really interferes with my work. I run c-light TAG with a c-comp(I) and it still takes longer than i'd like to wreck lights and the units they're supporting. During this recent event with the bloom of lights (particularly rainbow crow & shards) there has been many, many ECM carriers which I've seen blanket protecting the entire group (especially if they provide effective push and grouping up / spread the ECM across group).

AMS also wrecks my ATMs. I suppose this would be less of an issue if I was in a HBKIIC or NTG with 4x12's, though I enjoy the speed of the SHC which lets me really get into that 120 gap, expose my scalp enough to pop off the flat trajectory ATMs over a crest, then come down holding target for victory.

[Brain Cancer]

Add in "Outrun the missiles". Lights can simply haul tail away from the launcher, which given many lurmboat's bad habit of firing at long range may mean the missiles run out of reach and explode harmlessly.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Dunno about #23. I've blow torsos off of lurmboats without eliciting reactions, and I'm very sad to say that that's not an exaggeration. They only started moving around in confusion when they realized some of their tubes weren't firing any more.

[Curccu]

That 22. is usually enough.

But Polar with small coordinated LRM premade with narc light there is no counter really, unless every mech mounts AMS or two

Brain Cancer, on 28 August 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

Add in "Outrun the missiles". Lights can simply haul tail away from the launcher, which given many lurmboat's bad habit of firing at long range may mean the missiles run out of reach and explode harmlessly.

That only works if you are close to LRM max range when shooting starts. usually way easier to find that cover.

[Kiiyor]

My favorite deterrent: Brutality.

If you're facing a LURM heavy team, a straight up team charge right into their faces will guarantee you a comically easy victory almost every time. People don't want to do that though - they're seemingly content to want to peek, fire a single shot, then panic as soon as enemy missiles clear the tubes. Occasionally, someone will muster up some quivering courage to scamper to a different rock, getting rained on as they move there and allowing the LURMERS to rack up damage.

Fools! Sound the charge and take victory by the throat! Nothing deters quite like being ripped apart.

If that of flavour of raging fisticuff isn't your style, sneaky brutality might be; with a quick and brutal knife to the LURMER's kidneys.

If you're in a light or fast medium, charge them, and put a shot or two into their rear armor. Your typical LURM chucker doesn't like having their paint scratched, and their high pitched, fearful screams for support and near instantaneous mashing of the help command will generally distract a significant portion of the enemy team. It's like a baby crying; hard to ignore.

While the enemy scrambles to quiet the screaming babe (tactfully ignoring the puddle of mech urine at it's feet) the rest of your team can use the distraction to their advantage.

Edited by Kiiyor, 29 August 2017 - 12:01 AM.

[qS Sachiel]

If you're up against a lrm/atm supported by an aggressive team however, say goodnight, turn out the lights.

[Escef]

qS Sachiel, on 29 August 2017 - 12:29 AM, said:

If you're up against a lrm/atm supported by an aggressive team however, say goodnight, turn out the lights.

This is a little backwards. The LRM/ATM mech is there to support the team. Should the team support him? Sure, but don't think it's a one-way street.

The strength of the pack is the wolf, the strength of the wolf is the pack.

[Admiral-Dan]

Alexander of Macedon, on 28 August 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

Dunno about #23. I've blow torsos off of lurmboats without eliciting reactions, and I'm very sad to say that that's not an exaggeration. They only started moving around in confusion when they realized some of their tubes weren't firing any more.

What did you expect? Most LRM users have just enough skill to run half a mile behind the team and press two buttons.

[Rick T Dangerous]

29. If lurms shot at you at almost max range, move a little further away until you are out of range. Then turn around and perform obscene dancing moves.
30. Kill the lurmer.

[Admiral-Dan]

Rick T Dangerous, on 29 August 2017 - 12:52 AM, said:

Then turn around and perform obscene dancing moves.

I am a really bad dancer. Please make an instruction video of those in your mech.

[Savage Wolf]

AlphaEtOmega, on 29 August 2017 - 12:40 AM, said:

What did you expect? Most LRM users have just enough skill to run half a mile behind the team and press two buttons.

That's why a good LURM'er knows where to stand to be supporting and be supported by his team. And then it's not so easy. But usually that also means 30-40 tubes instead of 60-80. But still more effective.

[Galenit]

Curccu, on 28 August 2017 - 11:40 PM, said:

But Polar with small coordinated LRM premade with narc light there is no counter really, unless every mech mounts AMS or two

2 Boats, 2 scouts (more then 150tons), all rendert useless by 18 tons (12ams each with 1 ton ammo) of teamutility,
best trade you can have.

[qS Sachiel]

Escef, on 29 August 2017 - 12:38 AM, said:

This is a little backwards. The LRM/ATM mech is there to support the team. Should the team support him? Sure, but don't think it's a one-way street.

The strength of the pack is the wolf, the strength of the wolf is the pack.

I think you misinterpreted me.
If the team working with the LRM (yes, LRM is working with the team too, hopefully) is very good or very aggressive, good luck getting to him through all his mates... you're going to get kilt.

[Savage Wolf]

Galenit, on 29 August 2017 - 02:02 AM, said:

2 Boats, 2 scouts (more then 150tons), all rendert useless by 18 tons (12ams each with 1 ton ammo) of teamutility,
best trade you can have.

Yup. Which is why AMS needs to be nerfed. You can't have a piece of equipment that can totally counter an entire type of weapons in a game where you cannot change your loadout depending on the enemy.

[Daggett]

This list is quite inflated, so many redundant points.
For example why distinguish between normal and laser AMS? They are the same counter in a different flavor.
Whats the difference between rocks, walls and hills? They all block LOS and incoming missiles. So what does them make different counters?

I think your point would still be clear with a list only half as long.

Edited by Daggett, 29 August 2017 - 03:20 AM.

[Curccu]

Galenit, on 29 August 2017 - 02:02 AM, said:

2 Boats, 2 scouts (more then 150tons), all rendert useless by 18 tons (12ams each with 1 ton ammo) of teamutility,
best trade you can have.

Personally I don't like to invest any tons or slots to a thing that might be a threat in one map in the whole game.
If I know for sure that next game I'm going to play is polar then it might be worthy investment.

[Galenit]

Curccu, on 29 August 2017 - 03:12 AM, said:

Personally I don't like to invest any tons or slots to a thing that might be a threat in one map in the whole game.
If I know for sure that next game I'm going to play is polar then it might be worthy investment.

Thats why its still possible to use lrms in the higher tiers.
I like other maps more for lrms then polar.

[Brain Cancer]

There's a reason I swapped to a mixed missile boat when ATMs came out.

Stopping power. I can't count how many times now someone's come around a corner expecting to get dinked by 30ish LRMs only to eat a few dozen bonus ATMs for triple the damage and go to pieces.

Rushing does tend to panic most lurmers, though- to the point of uselessly firing into your chest while being dismantled inside their deadzone.

The smarter ones will realize they're going to die and shoot someone else instead, but that's not often. Either way, they don't call it the deadzone for nothing.

[JediPanther]

Daggett, on 29 August 2017 - 02:31 AM, said:

This list is quite inflated, so many redundant points.
For example why distinguish between normal and laser AMS? They are the same counter in a different flavor.
Whats the difference between rocks, walls and hills? They all block LOS and incoming missiles. So what does them make different counters?

I think your point would still be clear with a list only half as long.

Probably could have but we all know that T5/T4s and even a few T3+ still don't know what to do about lrms and now atms other than cry about them. The idea here is to list all counters in the vain and futile hope someone will use a few of them. A list 30 items long of both soft and hard counters to one weapon system is pretty bad indication of how dur some people are.

31. Have a weaponless light ram into the lrm mech(s). Yep I've seen it, done it a few times too thanks to lfe engine and all the pew pew some how crit-ed out.