189 replies to this topic

[VitriolicViolet]

lol MGs are OP or unbalanced? i think this last few months is the only time ive seen MGs being used in more equal proportion to any other weapon system, it used to be fairly rare frankly and that was because they were so under powered. they have a good place with lights and mediums and i throw some on my assaults from time to time. One of my Annis has 3 LMGs backing its main weapons and they are useful, for once.

Mgs arent OP at all or at least no more OP than half the weapons in game. i can find a scenario for every weapon where you will die in seconds, cherry picking is easy. An AC/20 will fix most lights really fast, as will SRM clouds.

Do people really suck at aiming so much that lights clean up assaults that often? personally i like fighting ACH and LCT in my Highlanders, bring large ACs, SRMs and JJs. easy. ive never understood how common that complaint is, ive seen so many assaults make stupid mistakes. the old try-to-catch-up-eternally thing, where it would be better to counter turn when they get ahead and repeat, or standing in the open when you could back into a wall and reduce the angles you can hit from by like 40%. its not hard, just a little brain power.

[Vyx]

This is very easy to fix. Remove LMGs from the game. Small arms have no place damaging mechs anyway. Have MGs and HMGs only.

The issue making LMGs so strong is their range and their inordinately high crit chance. Massed together, these advantages become obviously unbalanced.

LMGs were a mistake.

Edited by Vyx, 09 September 2017 - 02:23 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Vyx, on 09 September 2017 - 02:20 PM, said:

This is very easy to fix. Remove LMGs from the game. Small arms have no place damaging mechs anyway. Have MGs and HMGs only.

The issue making LMGs so strong is their range and their inordinately high crit chance. Massed together, these advantages become obviously unbalanced.

LMGs were a mistake.

lel
no


You do understand how this TT Ablative armor works, right?

[Vyx]

I stand by my statements.

[Mcgral18]

Vyx, on 09 September 2017 - 02:31 PM, said:

I stand by my statements.

You can remain wrong

I'll keep laughing at you

[Ruar]

Mcgral18, on 09 September 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

You can remain wrong

I'll keep laughing at you

He's right about the crit chance being the problem. I wouldn't remove the LMG though. Just adjust all of the MGs to get rid of the crit and have unique options between the three. It would require looking at their stats to adjust weight and ammunition counts to make sure they are worth the tonnage. Last resort would be changing the base damage to increase DPS.

[Mcgral18]

Ruar, on 09 September 2017 - 03:08 PM, said:

Last resort would be changing the base damage to increase DPS.

An absolute requirement, as you want to cut their damage in half

[Deathlike]

Mole, on 08 September 2017 - 09:09 PM, said:

All of you guys pounding home the point that MG boat lights are useless against armored targets. You are wrong. Absolutely, dead wrong. You guys do realize that these little MG boats also come equipped with enough lasers to peel your armor away and then eat your internals with their MGs, right? My 8 MG Mist Lynx can deliver 20 points of damage to armor from 200m out, and my 6 MG Arctic Cheetah can do the same at 270. When piloting my MG lights I do not need nor do I ever wait for a soft target. I go find a target and then I make it soft. This idea that lights packing large numbers of MGs are helpless against targets with armor needs to stop because it is a blatant falsehood.

I suggest you take the time and use ONLY MGs in front of an stock Atlas (which probably has unoptimized armor) in the Training Grounds and shoot its front armor (you are not allowed to shoot the back armor).

Have fun waiting for MGs to do anything consequential for a minute plus.

Edited by Deathlike, 09 September 2017 - 04:17 PM.

[Asym]

OK, last night, Mining, NO DAMAGE..... NO DAMAGE. A MG Commando kills me in less than 15 seconds...... A fully armored Night Gyr........ Oh, crap, turning, 1 Lg Laser, my UAC-5 starts, almost faceing and death.

No way guys, it shouldn't be like this....... The mech next to me is stunned...... "WTF was that" on comm....... only MG's listed in the AAR death report.

The crit calculation is screwed up big time..... Less than 15 seconds.....
What's the point of having Heavy and Assualt mechs, a survival skill tree and everything else if all of that means nothing??? Please, don't start with the Get GuD crap.... This has been going on for "weeks" and I've seen the same thing happen with many of T1 and T2 players I know; being destroyed in seconds by MG's alone.....

[Jay Leon Hart]

Deathlike, on 09 September 2017 - 04:14 PM, said:

I suggest you take the time and use ONLY MGs in front of an stock Atlas (which probably has unoptimized armor) in the Training Grounds and shoot its front armor (you are not allowed to shoot the back armor).

Have fun waiting for MGs to do anything consequential for a minute plus.

Well, the 8(6?) (H?)MG build destroying a Training Grounds Atlas' leg in ~13s had to chew through 82 stock armour first, vs 94 (CT) or 64 (ST), so it's not going to be significantly longer.

Asym, on 09 September 2017 - 04:20 PM, said:

Less than 15 seconds.....

Same results with Micro, Small and Medium class lasers.
Same results with SRM2s.

Are you claiming they are also too good and need a nerf?

Asym, on 09 September 2017 - 04:20 PM, said:

OK, last night, Mining, NO DAMAGE..... NO DAMAGE. A MG Commando kills me in less than 15 seconds...... A fully armored Night Gyr........ Oh, crap, turning, 1 Lg Laser, my UAC-5 starts, almost faceing and death.

Wait... the mythical, impossible MG commando?

[Deathlike]

Jay Leon Hart, on 09 September 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

Well, the 8(6?) (H?)MG build destroying a Training Grounds Atlas' leg in ~13s had to chew through 82 stock armour first, vs 94 (CT) or 64 (ST), so it's not going to be significantly longer.

We're talking about w/o other weapons?

You have to remember that in real time that your target is firing back at you and moving... not entirely free time that you'll get perfect aim either.

[Y E O N N E]

Asym, on 09 September 2017 - 04:20 PM, said:

The crit calculation is screwed up big time..... Less than 15 seconds.....
What's the point of having Heavy and Assualt mechs, a survival skill tree and everything else if all of that means nothing??? Please, don't start with the Get GuD crap.... This has been going on for "weeks" and I've seen the same thing happen with many of T1 and T2 players I know; being destroyed in seconds by MG's alone.....

Payback for all those 50 PPFLD, 75+ burn, or Streak 36 shots while on the run is hell, ain't it?

Fair is fair.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Deathlike, on 09 September 2017 - 04:30 PM, said:

We're talking about w/o other weapons?

You have to remember that in real time that your target is firing back at you and moving... not entirely free time that you'll get perfect aim either.

It was just 6-8 MGs/HMGs, but it's certainly not a minute plus

Not saying that's a good performance indicator, I ran the same test with Micro Lasers, Small Lasers, non-Pulse Medium Lasers and SRM2s with similar results.

[Mcgral18]

Asym, on 09 September 2017 - 04:20 PM, said:

OK, last night, Mining, NO DAMAGE..... NO DAMAGE. A MG Commando kills me in less than 15 seconds...... A fully armored Night Gyr........ Oh, crap, turning, 1 Lg Laser, my UAC-5 starts, almost faceing and death.

No way guys, it shouldn't be like this....... The mech next to me is stunned...... "WTF was that" on comm....... only MG's listed in the AAR death report.

The crit calculation is screwed up big time..... Less than 15 seconds.....
What's the point of having Heavy and Assualt mechs, a survival skill tree and everything else if all of that means nothing??? Please, don't start with the Get GuD crap.... This has been going on for "weeks" and I've seen the same thing happen with many of T1 and T2 players I know; being destroyed in seconds by MG's alone.....

Let's just mention this is the LRM guy/Gyr B33f stared down in his Stealth Armor

And we can bring up the MG Commando...which I'll assume he means Lynx? Or was it actually a chainfired SRM Commando?
Who knows.

He is full Potato, that's all we need to know
He also thinks 15 seconds is a fast death
15 seconds is nearly FIVE FULL WEAPON CYCLES
That's a goddamn eternity

[Scout Derek]

Mcgral18, on 09 September 2017 - 05:18 PM, said:

Let's just mention this is the LRM guy/Gyr B33f stared down in his Stealth Armor

And we can bring up the MG Commando...which I'll assume he means Lynx? Or was it actually a chainfired SRM Commando?
Who knows.

He is full Potato, that's all we need to know
He also thinks 15 seconds is a fast death
15 seconds is nearly FIVE FULL WEAPON CYCLES
That's a goddamn eternity

I know it may be rude to Stat Shame, but this season he hasn't done so good. less than 1.0 KDR these past few seasons. Not that it's a bad thing, but it shows that more experienced players are rekting him quicker than usual, thus his assumption that MGs are OP.

[Asym]

Mcgral18, on 09 September 2017 - 05:18 PM, said:

Let's just mention this is the LRM guy/Gyr B33f stared down in his Stealth Armor

And we can bring up the MG Commando...which I'll assume he means Lynx? Or was it actually a chainfired SRM Commando?
Who knows.

He is full Potato, that's all we need to know
He also thinks 15 seconds is a fast death
15 seconds is nearly FIVE FULL WEAPON CYCLES
That's a goddamn eternity

B33f . Oh yes, that is SO true...... So? Making fun of players in the Video's is arrogance run amuck..... I've seen several of the YT commentators play and to be honest, well, I wasn't impressed at all.......they didn't do very well......

Yes, I thought it may be a Commando? Of course, I'm not a MWO genius like some of you..........(it's a game........eh?!) Six MG's was all I saw....

A full potato. Thank you.... gee, let's see, 1 one of less than 15,000 now with a dwindling player base.... And, I'm still playing this silly game. Although, only about a third of what I was playing.... A full potato? You know, I've been called a lot of things in my life, by people who are people I greatly respect; and, "Potato" coming from just some "player of a game" is absolutely comical......

Here is some advice: with a dwindling player base; with new player retention problems out the butt; with entire portions of this game not being used: and, with enough anger within the game itself, you might consider a few things: I may be a "complete Potato" but this "complete potato" is still playing this game and I am still trying to help those who need help.... Unlike many who just make fun of people because they are a bit arrogant, me thinks........

Get bored one night, invite a "complete potato" to drop......

[Lukoi Banacek]

We play with friendly potatoes all of the time. Sometimes, I'm the potato as a matter of fact.

Point being your entire post was 1) inaccurate and 2) oversimplifying things. If anyone gets the opportunity to get on you for 15s straight like that, that's more on you're inability to roll damage than on them being in an OP mech.

It ruins your credibility and your point to do those two things and you're getting called out for it. Simple as that.

When PGI gets around to nerfing MG's, something else will be a great option because that's the cycle in this game. That's regardless of whether MG's need a nerf or if this is all just overblown nonsense. Btw, there are still threads on this forum stating the LRM's are OP.

Folks need to not confuse something finally emerging as a relevant threat, as something being overpowered. MG lights are not terribly difficult to deal with. Adapt. Some of the same lot on this thread complain about every "meta" that emerges in this game and your scores stay the same month after month. Maybe it's not the lack of perfect balance in this game, maybe it's some of yours unwillingness to adapt to what is effective.

[Asym]

Scout Derek, on 09 September 2017 - 05:45 PM, said:

I know it may be rude to Stat Shame, but this season he hasn't done so good. less than 1.0 KDR these past few seasons. Not that it's a bad thing, but it shows that more experienced players are rekting him quicker than usual, thus his assumption that MGs are OP.

Or, that gameplay has degraded to the point of sillyness.... That it takes a long time to master a new mech in a class you are not familiar with.... That MM has had a few "issues" and that Stomps are common....

But, most importantly, I'm not a brawling or light player ! I came into this game as a support pilot.... LRM's and such... I have no desire to be a killer ace and brawl all game long. Wasn't why I came to MWO..... So, I never expect to be the highest damage... I never expect to have the most kills..... My friends and team mates are "those guys"..... I expect to have 8 or higher "assists" and be there when the "team" needs assistance.... Again, statistics are funny things......

[Lukoi Banacek]

Asym, on 09 September 2017 - 06:50 PM, said:

But, most importantly, I'm not a brawling or light player ! I came into this game as a support pilot.... LRM's and such... Again, statistics are funny things......

They are indeed. But still good starting points as indicators. Case in point, as a dedicated support pilot, your average match score should be pretty strong if you know what you're doing. Yours is 170 this month. That's significantly less than the average player right now (low 200's).

It's a strong indicator that maybe you're not as savvy to how the game works as you've purported to be (since you first started posting complaints as a rookie player I might add). How folks interpret statistics is also a funny thing I guess.

Here is an example of an absolutely incredible "support pilot," in this game for reference (he runs LRM Hunchies so often it's frightening):
118 Jman5 12 7 1.71 40 9 4.44 19 434
If Jman brought LRM's to the fight, I know he's going to support the team.

Edited by Lukoi Banacek, 09 September 2017 - 06:56 PM.

[Deathlike]

Lukoi Banacek, on 09 September 2017 - 06:55 PM, said:

They are indeed. But still good starting points as indicators. Case in point, as a dedicated support pilot, your average match score should be pretty strong if you know what you're doing. Yours is 170 this month. That's significantly less than the average player right now (low 200's).

It's a strong indicator that maybe you're not as savvy to how the game works as you've purported to be (since you first started posting complaints as a rookie player I might add). How folks interpret statistics is also a funny thing I guess.

Here is an example of an absolutely incredible "support pilot," in this game for reference (he runs LRM Hunchies so often it's frightening):
118 Jman5 12 7 1.71 40 9 4.44 19 434
If Jman brought LRM's to the fight, I know he's going to support the team.

I know teh Jarl's leaderboard site is cumulative to the seasons, but his current season (using the MWO leaderboard info) has a decent score, but similar K-D/W-L ratio to the overall stat chart.

The thing is in being "average" in this game is actually holding a 1 K-D and 1 W-L ratio, but that relative to the game is considered "above average" with the broken PSR system.

Edited by Deathlike, 09 September 2017 - 07:02 PM.