189 replies to this topic

[Brain Cancer]

So apparently, it's good to be a Mist Lynx-G(angsta)?

[Clanner Scum]

Mole, on 03 September 2017 - 08:57 PM, said:

I just tried the 8LMG Mist Lynx. I ate 8 enemy 'mechs for ******* breakfast in that match. It was insane how quickly and easily I downed them. That thing is a friggin' monster. I have very little doubt it will get the ever-living crap nerfed out of it soon.

Well considering MGs and Mist Lynx' have been under used or not used at all for a very long time, I see no problem with giving the two the love they deserve.

The ML and MG's are fine. Leave them as is. We don't need any useless content in the game.

[Ruar]

qS Sachiel, on 05 September 2017 - 08:23 PM, said:

I'll start off to affirm that I'm not focussing on you specifically in so far as I want to burn you, more that your discussions appear well worded and thought out, not generally just knee jerk. The second paragraph to my first post you replied to was aimed more at Ruar.

Your final point I most interesting to me. If a light crits put your weapons you lose that damage potential, but you can still keep up speed or live, if you're running a cxl/lfe, or xl respectively. Mg do less damage bi more crit. Most other weapons do less crit but have overwhelming damage. What is the difference between having your st taken off by a second Alpha following armour failure vs leaving the torso on and having it critted out. Your point I feel seems to focus on that mg makes it less fun because of the lingering perception of having 100% of nothing (component remains but is crippled) vs having 0% of something (component destroyed). As others have suggested, if we take away crit multiplier and add damage you will just end up losing the component anyway. Against most mediums and above that shoulder would my be there to lament te lack of functioning internals. I still see a disconnect in logic. Really, I only see the argument approaching validity in high structure assaults where they continue to function long after armour failure, discounting xl check.

Take the scenario where I'm running around with the armor off one of my ST. Still in good shape but caught some PPFLD wrong and the armor is gone.

Against every other weapon except MGs I can continue to fight with confidence that if I play smart and twist properly I can still contribute. Yeah, I might catch another big PPFLD alpha wrong and lose that ST, but odds are that won't happen as long as I pay attention. Most likely I'm going to keep fighting for awhile and being an effective member of the team who has to pivot one way more than the other in order to shield the weak side.

Now, same scenario but against a MG user. Not just lights, but anyone boating 2-3 MGs or more. I know that if I close the range they will be able to kill that ST quickly. If it's a slow mech (85kph or less) then I can spin and pivot and should be able to minimize the exposure to the MG. I still have to be careful but it might work out as long as I don't make a mistake. Against a light I know that ST is gone because their speed advantage means I can't out pivot them, I can't take the time to truly aim, and my only real hope is my teammates pick off the light before he gets a clean shot.

I get that some people think if armor is stripped then you deserve to pretty much lose your mech and lose it quickly. I just disagree. With armor stripped I have a weakness but it shouldn't be something that keeps me out of the fight. MGs have been buffed to the point open structure means as soon as you are targeted you are out of the fight.

I've taken heavies and mediums against assaults with my armor open and won. I can't recall winning a fight against a light MG boat once my armor was opened.


That's why I think MGs are OP and need to lose the crit damage. I also think having 7-10 DPS that is heat free is significant and shouldn't be compensated with extra damage. Where I see room for improvements is in ammunition count and some additional range for HMGs. I think MGs are meant to be support weapons, not the main choice for a mech. I have no problems with MGs being rarely used similar to flamers and NARC. Which is why it doesn't bother me if MGs are nerfed some and become much less popular. They are a niche weapon in Battlemech warfare and should stay that way.

[Vonbach]

Prototelis, on 05 September 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

A light mech that can be taken out with some ermeds....

For real, myst lynx is so fragile.

Nothing here has really changed, open back is still open back.

You have to hit it first.

[PyckenZot]

MGs are the fun new toy that's halfway decent. It'll pass.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

You have to hit it first.

If you can't hit the light, then the problem isn't the MGs, it's your ability to shoot it.

Clearly, your targeting has been nerfed.

[Judah Malganis]

Quote

I have no problems with MGs being rarely used similar to flamers and NARC. Which is why it doesn't bother me if MGs are nerfed some and become much less popular.

I like how you openly admit that you just want them nerfed out of the game. Period.

By the way, 8 lmgs does 5.6 DPS, not 7-10. I'm still not sure where you get your numbers from. Also, a large number of lore mechs carry machine guns, so they are not "niche". They pack as much punch as an AC2 in TT, just with a lot less range. And they also have a rapid fire mode that can help them shred an opponent in desperation.

Edited by Judah Malganis, 06 September 2017 - 12:39 PM.

[Ruar]

Judah Malganis, on 06 September 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

I like how you openly admit that you just want them nerfed out of the game. Period.

By the way, 8 lmgs does 5.6 DPS, not 7-10. I'm still not sure where you get your numbers from. Also, a large number of lore mechs carry machine guns, so they are not "niche". They pack as much punch as an AC2 in TT, just with a lot less range. And they also have a rapid fire mode that can help them shred an opponent in desperation.

10 DPS is from HMGs which would be the standard if crit wasn't part of the equation.

And having a weapon be niche and only used in specific circumstances isn't nerfed out of the game. I'm truly amazed that people are all of a sudden talking about how MGs just have to be a part of most builds when they were a niche weapon for so long. There's just no way all the talk of keeping MGs strong could be because it's an over performing and people love to cling to anything that gives them an advantage.

[Judah Malganis]

Funny how 6 MG mechs weren't an issue, but 8 or 6-8 with ECM makes everyone go crazy.

The nerf you ask for will not just affect MLX and ACH, but every other light with ballistic hardpoints as well. They don't pack the tonnage to really carry anything else. You constantly hint that you wouldn't mind if MGs go away, which makes sense since you're predominantly a Heavy mech player (checking your mech class preference is easy) who probably detests getting flanked. Along with all these other people complaining about how lights are OP or how "mid to long range meta is screwed" in the forums, you have a vested interest in having crap lights in-game.

That's ok, though, they'll nerf MGs, and lights will toss the tonnage on heavy lasers or pulse lasers, and then you'll cry about 40-60 dmg to your rear in 3-4 seconds over ranges where they can run away before you can hit back.

Edited by Judah Malganis, 06 September 2017 - 02:37 PM.

[Ruar]

Judah Malganis, on 06 September 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

Funny how 6 MG mechs weren't an issue, but 8 or 6-8 with ECM makes everyone go crazy.

The nerf you ask for will not just affect MLX and ACH, but every other light with ballistic hardpoints as well. They don't pack the tonnage to really carry anything else. You constantly hint that you wouldn't mind if MGs go away, which makes sense since you're predominantly a Heavy mech player (checking your mech class preference is easy) who probably detests getting flanked. Along with all these other people complaining about how lights are OP or how "mid to long range meta is screwed" in the forums, you have a vested interest in having crap lights in-game.

That's ok, though, they'll nerf MGs, and lights will toss the tonnage on heavy lasers or pulse lasers, and then you'll cry about 40-60 dmg to your rear in 3-4 seconds over ranges where they can run away before you can hit back.

Lately it's heavies, still more time spent in mediums. And I play heavies as flankers and brawlers. Nice try assuming whatever fits your narrative though.

[Y E O N N E]

qS Sachiel, on 05 September 2017 - 08:23 PM, said:

I'll start off to affirm that I'm not focussing on you specifically in so far as I want to burn you, more that your discussions appear well worded and thought out, not generally just knee jerk. The second paragraph to my first post you replied to was aimed more at Ruar.

Your final point I most interesting to me. If a light crits put your weapons you lose that damage potential, but you can still keep up speed or live, if you're running a cxl/lfe, or xl respectively. Mg do less damage bi more crit. Most other weapons do less crit but have overwhelming damage. What is the difference between having your st taken off by a second Alpha following armour failure vs leaving the torso on and having it critted out. Your point I feel seems to focus on that mg makes it less fun because of the lingering perception of having 100% of nothing (component remains but is crippled) vs having 0% of something (component destroyed). As others have suggested, if we take away crit multiplier and add damage you will just end up losing the component anyway. Against most mediums and above that shoulder would my be there to lament te lack of functioning internals. I still see a disconnect in logic. Really, I only see the argument approaching validity in high structure assaults where they continue to function long after armour failure, discounting xl check.

Well, I think the logical disconnect you perceive is stemming from thus:

From what I understand, the extra damage that MGs currently deal to internal structure is part and parcel to the system that also sees them removing equipment from your 'Mech. If you remove one, you remove the other. When I say I want them to keep the current extra damage to structure, what I am really saying is that I think they should rework the system to reduce or remove the occurrence of equipment loss but keep the current average DPS enjoyed against structure, i.e. we're not going to increase the DPS against structure from where it already is.

To add, even if we did increase the damage I don't think it is comparable to the equipment loss. The way the game is now, you cannot react fast enough to stop equipment loss; the sheer number of scans per second and the high chance for crits means that guns go poof almost immediately upon a breach. Meanwhile, almost nothing in the game can deal out high enough burst damage to kill you before you can react and twist save the highest Clan Laser Vomit or really big, really slow, really risky ballistic builds. That affords you a level of control over the situation, even from the rear, that 3 Med Pulse and a quartet of LMGs just flat-out deny to you.

All that said, a case could be made that raw damage in the game is too high and even unarmored sections get destroyed outright too quickly, but I think that's a tangential topic.

[An Innocent Urbie]

If you cannot hit a Mist Lynx with your lazors and dakkas then I suggest you use LRM and STREAKS..those weapons does not require you to have aiming skills only environmental awareness

[MW Waldorf Statler]

a Mech thats carry 4 MGs is useless in all other Fights thats not in MG Ranges ,and can not carry other ballistic Weapons thats more effective in other Situations ...what bring more in a Heavy Mech ? 2 MGs for extremly Short range or 2 UAC 5 thats bring more Damage over more Ranges ;-)

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 07 September 2017 - 02:34 AM.

[Ruar]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 07 September 2017 - 02:28 AM, said:

a Mech thats carry 4 MGs is useless in all other Fights thats not in MG Ranges ,and can not carry other ballistic Weapons thats more effective in other Situations ...what bring more in a Heavy Mech ? 2 MGs for extremly Short range or 2 UAC 5 thats bring more Damage over more Ranges ;-)

Because a mech with 4 ballistic points which are obviously meant for MGs doesn't have any energy or missile points either?

I can't think of a single mech in the game that is designed to only use MGs with no other weapon hardpoints.

[Y E O N N E]

Ruar, on 07 September 2017 - 03:31 AM, said:

Because a mech with 4 ballistic points which are obviously meant for MGs doesn't have any energy or missile points either?

I can't think of a single mech in the game that is designed to only use MGs with no other weapon hardpoints.

I will say that the SDR-5K, LCT-1V, and LCT-3V have woefully inadequate complementary weapons...and not even enough MG firepower to be worthwhile.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Yeonne Greene, on 07 September 2017 - 06:22 AM, said:

I will say that the SDR-5K, LCT-1V, and LCT-3V have woefully inadequate complementary weapons...and not even enough MG firepower to be worthwhile.

Really all 3 of those should be given more ballistic mounts.

[Y E O N N E]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 07 September 2017 - 07:04 AM, said:

Really all 3 of those should be given more ballistic mounts.

Agreed, though that still has them spending double the weight of an ACH/MLX for those guns with no benefit while still having inadequate complements.

This also extends to Arrow vs. SHC and why HMG are just completely terrible for IS.

[Iron Heel]

Ruar, on 06 September 2017 - 03:57 AM, said:

I've taken heavies and mediums against assaults with my armor open and won. I can't recall winning a fight against a light MG boat once my armor was opened.
.

That's what a crit seeker light does.
You're complaining about the nature of the beast.
Perhaps a crit seeking mg light pilot has taken the time to scan your armor for weaknesses and exploited those better than the heavier mechs pilots you encountered.
A proficient light pilot will do that.

Don't engage a crit seeker with armor open..

[MechWarrior5152251]

Guess OP wanted brawling to remain extinct.

The solution for most L2P problems, LRMs and STREAKS.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Yeonne Greene, on 07 September 2017 - 07:19 AM, said:

Agreed, though that still has them spending double the weight of an ACH/MLX for those guns with no benefit while still having inadequate complements.

This also extends to Arrow vs. SHC and why HMG are just completely terrible for IS.

The lack of Heavy lasers also makes things a bit less appealing on the IS side since heavy lasers kind of combine well with weapons that already require lots of facetime, imo. Then again, I suppose so long as IS lasers can output higher levels of DPS that isn't as big of a problem.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 07 September 2017 - 07:57 AM.