153 replies to this topic

[oldradagast]

Honestly, the only people I know who say lights are overpowered in MWO fall into one of two groups:

- People who honestly are not very good at the game. You know, LRM Atlas, random mixed builds, tiny engines to add more guns so they get left behind and eaten by lights, people who can't shoot straight, people who build mechs with piles of spare tonnage while not bothering to fully armor said mechs, etc.

- People who think the game is supposed to be like tabletop where tonnage = better while forgetting that this is a 12 vs. 12 game, not a game where you can bring 5 Locusts per Atlas, which is closer to how tabletop works.

Meanwhile, the light queue is - as always - the smallest one, light performance in the data is the worst per class, and PGI will probably still nerf machine guns because "oh, no - they are useful, and we can't have that!"

Edited by oldradagast, 10 September 2017 - 07:37 AM.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

Bigbacon, on 10 September 2017 - 07:33 AM, said:

and this right here is a HUGE part of the games problems. Once your forcefully pushed into higher tiers there is no diversity to be had in mech selection or mech builds. You MUST play to the meta to have any real fun or usefulness. Taking anything less and you just get melted immediately or put your team at a massive disadvantage.

Meta, really?

It helps to have something that just meshes well with everything else that people use, but meta is hardly necessary, even at higher tiers. Maybe if you go into organised groups like for FW, but in QP you can mess around with any build that makes a semblance of

I put many different things on my Kit Foxes, and while one just 'clicks' with me (the 2 ERPPC BlasterFox), everything else works just well. LRM30 / NARC, SRM6x4, SSRM6x3 + TAG, 8 ERSL/HSL, 6 HML...the list goes on. Every one of them works more or less, depending on the situation. As it is with literally every loadout in the game. And I'm in a slow, big light with very obvious side torsi that get one-alpha'd to explode.

Does the meta 6 MPL / 2 LPL IS mech work well in Terra Therma? Or in a 1v1 duel against a flamer Nova with SPLs / MiPLs? Probably not. It really comes down to what you attack, and how you attack.

[El Bandito]

Bigbacon, on 10 September 2017 - 07:33 AM, said:

and this right here is a HUGE part of the games problems. Once your forcefully pushed into higher tiers there is no diversity to be had in mech selection or mech builds. You MUST play to the meta to have any real fun or usefulness. Taking anything less and you just get melted immediately or put your team at a massive disadvantage.

I still see plenty of non-meta builds in T1. Heck, I personally love to run LRMAdder time to time.

[MadRover]

Juodas Varnas, on 10 September 2017 - 07:25 AM, said:

I guess mods hate memes.

But seriously though, i'm no Light-mech pilot (more of a Medium guy myself) and i have huge respects for people that can actually use light mechs and do well in them (cause i sure as hell can't).

To be honest, OP kinda reminds me of an LRM Atlas that was whining in-game about light mechs being overpowered.

Why do mods hate memes? Don't they realize it provides some comedy relief?

Anyway I'm more of a heavy pilot and if a light kills me with machineguns or I get wolfpacked to death I'm happy to tip my hat off to them. If my team nascars me to death by not turning around and failing to understand that blue team will get out nascarred by a dedicated NASCAR Wolfpack, I'll blame the team. If I get taken out very quickly in the beginning, I'll blame myself. I put blame where it needs to go and move on. Not play forum warrior online crying wolf begging for nerfs when 99% of these kinds of lost are due to USER ERROR (OP you see these two words right?) and figure out what exactly did the user do wrong. Lights are so skill capped right now it's hilariously bad.

Here's how I will rank each mech weight from easiest to hardest:
1. Heavy chassis
2. Mediums
3. Assaults
4. Lights

[KingCobra]

Bigbacon, on 10 September 2017 - 07:33 AM, said:

and this right here is a HUGE part of the games problems. Once your forcefully pushed into higher tiers there is no diversity to be had in mech selection or mech builds. You MUST play to the meta to have any real fun or usefulness. Taking anything less and you just get melted immediately or put your team at a massive disadvantage.

I have to agree with this .

The crazy thing about this was I was with my group not 15 feet behind my group these 2 mechs came out of no where 30 seconds from spawn start of the game first off how did they get across the map so fast? and they killed me under 10 seconds of the encounter and you say owe no these lights are not OP? they killed me so fast you have no time to react and this is the biggest problem with this group of OP lights Locust being first on the list

Edited by KingCobra, 10 September 2017 - 07:51 AM.

[Felbombling]

Could you imagine this guy in World of Warships?

"I was sailing along in my huge, super-powerful Battleship. All of the sudden... and out of nowhere, I might add... a little Destroyer appeared. Next thing I know, some torpedoes slammed into my side and I sank. This is horrible game design, Gaijin. All you want is money. Fix your damn game."

Having joked around a bit, I will say that Light Mechs do enjoy a non-contact environment with other Mechs, which makes it pretty easy to groin-hug Assault Mechs to death. This is something PGI should have addressed years ago.

Edited by Felbombling, 10 September 2017 - 07:57 AM.

[Ruar]

Trissila, on 10 September 2017 - 07:07 AM, said:

If lights are so OP, why are they the least-played weight class by an enormous margin?

Because they play differently than any other class. Lights have a higher skill ceiling and reward that with much stronger play. Lights also have a higher skill floor making them difficult to use. So fewer people use them since they are harder to use, but the ones who learn how to play to light strengths can be OP.

Please don't use logical fallacies to push your point.

[KingCobra]

Felbombling, on 10 September 2017 - 07:54 AM, said:

Could you imagine this guy in World of Warships?

"I was sailing along in my huge, super-powerful Battleship. All of the sudden... and out of nowhere, I might add... a little Destroyer appeared. Next thing I know, some torpedoes slammed into my side and I sank. This is horrible game design, Gaijin. All you want is money. Fix your damn game."

Actually pal IM one of the top players in World of Warship and WOT and for the longest time destroyers were very OP compared to larger ships because they had the same problem some lights in MWO had the hitreg on them were so bad you just could not get good hits on them so please don't play like you know **** about MWO or World of Warships or WOT.

[Battlemaster56]

Once again I have to pull out this bad boy again...

[Lorcryst NySell]

KingCobra, on 10 September 2017 - 07:59 AM, said:

Actually pal IM one of the top players in World of Warship and WOT and for the longest time destroyers were very OP compared to larger ships because they had the same problem some lights in MWO had the hitreg on them were so bad you just could not get good hits on them so please don't play like you know **** about MWO or World of Warships or WOT.

That explains a lot actually.

[Ruar]

KingCobra, on 10 September 2017 - 07:59 AM, said:

Actually pal IM one of the top players in World of Warship and WOT and for the longest time destroyers were very OP compared to larger ships because they had the same problem some lights in MWO had the hitreg on them were so bad you just could not get good hits on them so please don't play like you know **** about MWO or World of Warships or WOT.

The problem with destroyers in WoWS was the small map size allowing ambushes. When the larger ships were forced to move out of open water it amplified the power of destroyers with no real counter other than hope your destroyers or cruisers could defend you. At least, that's what I saw before I quit playing. As long as they had such tiny maps there was never going to be a truly epic feel to the fights.

[Appogee]

Oh Goodie! I've been looking for an appropriate thread in which to use my new gif!

(Hopefully the mods will see it as a bit of fun and not offensive in any way.)



I love where Lights are at the moment, balance-wise. They are 'harder work' to get good scores from - you can't slack off and deliver 70 points alphas at leisure with them. But you can now get a lot of kills and good damage if you apply yourself and work to their strengths.

And yes, when i'm piloting a Light, you can bet I'll be looking for slow Assault Mechs sitting at the back with no short-range weapons. That is exactly the kind of enemy I should and will take out as a priority for my team.

Edited by Appogee, 10 September 2017 - 08:08 AM.

[KingCobra]

Ruar, on 10 September 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

The problem with destroyers in WoWS was the small map size allowing ambushes. When the larger ships were forced to move out of open water it amplified the power of destroyers with no real counter other than hope your destroyers or cruisers could defend you. At least, that's what I saw before I quit playing. As long as they had such tiny maps there was never going to be a truly epic feel to the fights.

I agree and on top of that only 40% of your shots on them actually counted as hits it was crazy because for a time until they addressed the problem all you saw was 70% destroyers and even destroyer VS destroyer they could hardly kill each other it was funny really.

Im not against lights or light pilots im against some lights being so OP in MWO that they just outright destroy the balance of MWO and take away the mechs and loadouts and diversity to have fun.

[Appogee]

In terms of game balance, MWO was much worse when "more tonnage equaled more win".

Edited by Appogee, 10 September 2017 - 08:11 AM.

[Phoolan Devi]

KingCobra, on 10 September 2017 - 06:48 AM, said:

Played my first game today on grim portico did not even get very far towards the city and attacked by 2 lights with machine guns and flamers AND KILLED .

MWO game play and balance is at a all time low lights for so long have been totally OP in this game tanking even assaults and heavy's which is totally asinine.

Russ and PGI want money but I wont buy into this type of crappola gameplay anymore balance your game Russ or sell it off to someone that knows what the heck there doing with this IP.

Please, Russ, do not listen to him! He doesn't know much.

Actually, Russ, please put the mechs, especially the lights, to their old size before the big resize of over a year ago!

Lol, lights are op.....it couldn't get more hilarious!

2 simple tips for you:
1st: put same armor in your back torsi
2nd: turn around and tell your team.


From what I read from you, OP, could it be that they just got lucky and hit your ammo which made you blow uo so fast?

[Felbombling]

KingCobra, on 10 September 2017 - 07:59 AM, said:

Actually pal IM one of the top players in World of Warship and WOT and for the longest time destroyers were very OP compared to larger ships because they had the same problem some lights in MWO had the hitreg on them were so bad you just could not get good hits on them so please don't play like you know **** about MWO or World of Warships or WOT.

Hey, pal, don't talk like you know **** about anything to do with World of Tanks, World of Warships or MechWarrior: Online. I am a master lawn-dart player. I'm ranked top-5 in North America, dammit. You don't know jack-**** about lawn-darts, either!

[Lorcryst NySell]

KingCobra, on 10 September 2017 - 08:09 AM, said:

Im not against lights or light pilots im against some lights being so OP in MWO that they just outright destroy the balance of MWO and take away the mechs and loadouts and diversity to have fun.

Tell ya what, I'll put aside my snark, sarcasm and salt and suggest this :

Buy one of those OP 'Mechs, copy the most META build you can find, and try them yourself.

I did. I could not understand how a Light 'Mech could eat me so fast. I learned.

Lights are probably the hardest 'Mechs to play, a single error mean swift, brutal death, but in the hands of a player that knows how to extract the quintessential juice out of them, they are a terror.

Being caught by two Lights in a Heavy is a death sentence unless your Heavy is specifically made to counter them.

That has been true in the BT franchise since day one, and is even more visible here in MWO.

The key is to NOT get caught.

Edited by Lorcryst NySell, 10 September 2017 - 08:14 AM.

[KingCobra]

Appogee, on 10 September 2017 - 08:10 AM, said:

In terms of game balance, MWO was much worse when "more tonnage equaled more win".

I agree but PGI is to blame because of low armor that don't work and high pinpoint alpha shots. give mechs more armor and take away pinpoint alpha shots lengthen the time between weapon group cycles and we might be actually playing a BattleTech game.

Lorcryst NySell, on 10 September 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

Tell ya what, I'll put aside my snark, sarcasm and salt and suggest this :

Buy one of those OP 'Mechs, copy the most META build you can find, and try them yourself.

I did. I could not understand how a Light 'Mech could eat me so fast. I learned.

Lights are probably the hardest 'Mechs to play, a single error mean swift, brutal death, but in the hands of a player that knows how to extract the quintessential juice out of them, they are a terror.

Being caught by two Lights in a Heavy is a death sentence unless your Heavy is specifically made to counter them.

That has been true in the BT franchise since day one, and is even more visible here in MWO.

The key is to NOT get caught.

If I have to do that I might as well just play my Founders account and comp play which has also become very boring or just quit playing and supporting MWO.

[ocular tb]

KingCobra, on 10 September 2017 - 07:50 AM, said:

I have to agree with this .

The crazy thing about this was I was with my group not 15 feet behind my group these 2 mechs came out of no where 30 seconds from spawn start of the game first off how did they get across the map so fast? and they killed me under 10 seconds of the encounter and you say owe no these lights are not OP? they killed me so fast you have no time to react and this is the biggest problem with this group of OP lights Locust being first on the list

Speed and mobility are really the only things a lot of lights have going for them- Spider and Locust especially. They did what many lights do- find somebody unsuspecting and stab them in the back. I don't think lights are OP although they can be quite annoying and can be deadly in the hands of a skilled player. But then again, assaults can be even more deadly. My friendly advice is to just try and stay closer to your teammates and keep your head on a swivel and maybe try different mechs/loadouts if lights are coming up behind you often. If this is a rare occasion, then I would just accept it as that (rare) and move on.

Also, you mentioned they had flamers. Flamers+ERPPCs doesn't make for a good close-in fight. In some situations, there isn't anything you can do. It happens. It happens to us lights sometimes too. Not sure I think MGs or lights that carry them are anywhere near OP. They might have some advantages in the right situations, but overall they aren't really throwing off balance in my opinion.

[poltergoost]

If your aim is really that terrible, maybe if you ask the light pilots nicely they will stand still so you can hit them