68 replies to this topic

[Jun Watarase]

The clan streak range advantage is very subjective because you arent fighting on a open field most of the time. A light mech would use cover to get in close anyway. Given the ghost heat limitation, i would rather pay more tonnage for 3x IS streaks than 3x clan streaks due to the vastly superior DPS. Its especially important if you are fighting mediums (not like you have a choice, you will fight mediums who see streak boats as juicy targets).

Given IS quirks and shorter duration lasers, i think IS can make better mechs using streaks and still have lasers to help take out an exposed component. I tried running a streak crow a while back but SRM assassins can just tank you with ease, so it wasnt very effective at its niche role.

[Y E O N N E]

JackalBeast, on 11 September 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

Agreed. That right there helps to show that there is a dynamic involved with the aspects of these weapon systems.

Yeah.

Out of all the weapon system imbalances, SSRMs seem more or less fine. They both savage Lights in about the same amount of time and they both sandblast bigs to more or less equal degree.

[Sunstruck]

BSW-P1
BSW-P1

Edited by Sunstruck, 12 September 2017 - 01:27 AM.

[Racerxintegra2k]

If i'm understanding correctly ...

Clan Streaks ... Much higher Alpha's Much greater range.

IS Streaks ... Better DPS.

Seems to line up with my experience. In clan streak mechs i'm one-two shoting lights. With Innersphere mechs i get into range fire once .. and lights run away with yellow armor never to be bothered again by my streaks.

[Admiral-Dan]

Brain Cancer, on 11 September 2017 - 07:06 AM, said:

IS versions are going to be considerably weaker if you're trying for the same number of tubes, and that's the critical issue for a Streakboat.

IS Streaks have much lower CoolDown, so you don’t need as much tubes.

[Racerxintegra2k]

AlphaEtOmega, on 12 September 2017 - 07:07 AM, said:

IS Streaks have much lower CoolDown, so you don’t need as much tubes.

Number of tubes being canceled out by cooldown doesn't really help with the range discrepancy though.

http:// http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2e004bdda663154

Marginally better DPS and Speed for almost 1/2 alpha damage, 90 meters of range and less ammo .. i guess those are the trade offs.

Edited by Racerxintegra2k, 12 September 2017 - 07:21 AM.

[Daurock]

Racerxintegra2k, on 12 September 2017 - 07:10 AM, said:

Number of tubes being canceled out by cooldown doesn't really help with the range discrepancy though.

The DPS improvement provided by IS streaks is enough to sway the battle for me, hands down. The extra range is handy, but the vast majority of the time when using streaks, you're brawling at under 100m. Like i said earlier, if i had access to both clan and IS tech in a single mech, I'd take the IS streaks pretty much every time, for the Extra DPS. There are plenty of IS-Clan weapons way more unbalanced than streaks. (For example, you could start with the Gauss rifles, or UACs, where the IS variants are awful compared to their clan counterparts. You could ask what benefit the extra slot and half ton does for the beagle probe vs the clan one, or the extra half ton and a slot for a guardian vs clan ECM. You could ask why the IS light engines act exactly the same as clan XL engines, but weigh much more.) The tree you're barking up here is WAY down the list of clan-is imbalances.

I'll Re-iterate it. There are plenty of reasons why IS tech usually falls behind Clan tech. Streaks/SRMs are not among them.

Edited by Daurock, 12 September 2017 - 07:27 AM.

[Admiral-Dan]

Racerxintegra2k, on 12 September 2017 - 07:10 AM, said:

Marginally better DPS and Speed for almost 1/2 alpha damage, 90 meters of range and less ammo .. i guess those are the trade offs.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...58abc4abea940a7

Use the BSW and get huge armor bonuses on top.

So you have:

Clan:
More Alpha
More Ammo
More Range

IS:
More DPS
More Speed
More Armor

I can’t see a big unbalance here.

[Athom83]

AlphaEtOmega, on 12 September 2017 - 07:31 AM, said:

Clan:
More Alpha
More Ammo
More Range

IS:
More DPS
More Speed
More Armor

I can’t see a big unbalance here.

When said alpha blows through your armor and destroys components (weapons, ammo, etc) before you get in range, that's where it comes from. That said when you can sneak into range before said alpha, then not so much.

[El Bandito]

AlphaEtOmega, on 12 September 2017 - 07:07 AM, said:

IS Streaks have much lower CoolDown, so you don’t need as much tubes.

When hunting Lights, bigger alpha is more important than DPS. Which is why Clan SSRMs are better than IS SSRMs.

That said, IS has the best Light hunter in the form of Assassin. Clan side does not have any equivalent to it.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 September 2017 - 08:03 AM.

[DukeDublin]

All these XL engines (for shame). To match the clans 1:1 is a foolish trap.

GRF-2N

Similar DPS
82.5 kph (Light Engine)
ECM & BAP + Stealth (IS Tech)

Outside of 270m, there's no reason not to be in stealth amiright? Streakcrows don't get Stealth and makes up for the smaller engine.

[Racerxintegra2k]

El Bandito, on 12 September 2017 - 08:00 AM, said:

When hunting Lights, bigger alpha is more important than DPS. Which is why Clan SSRMs are better than IS SSRMs.

That said, IS has the best Light hunter in the form of Assassin. Clan side does not have any equivalent to it.

You explained what i was trying to say much better lol.

Daurock, on 12 September 2017 - 07:25 AM, said:

The DPS improvement provided by IS streaks is enough to sway the battle for me, hands down. The extra range is handy, but the vast majority of the time when using streaks, you're brawling at under 100m. Like i said earlier, if i had access to both clan and IS tech in a single mech, I'd take the IS streaks pretty much every time, for the Extra DPS. There are plenty of IS-Clan weapons way more unbalanced than streaks. (For example, you could start with the Gauss rifles, or UACs, where the IS variants are awful compared to their clan counterparts. You could ask what benefit the extra slot and half ton does for the beagle probe vs the clan one, or the extra half ton and a slot for a guardian vs clan ECM. You could ask why the IS light engines act exactly the same as clan XL engines, but weigh much more.) The tree you're barking up here is WAY down the list of clan-is imbalances.

I'll Re-iterate it. There are plenty of reasons why IS tech usually falls behind Clan tech. Streaks/SRMs are not among them.

I've never even remotely mentioned brawling with Streaks, in my mind brawling with missiles is SRM territory. I've always maintained this was about light hunting. You will not do much light hunting for very long at 100m's lights will book and with half the alpha and less range they will escape.

Edited by Racerxintegra2k, 12 September 2017 - 09:11 AM.

[LT. HARDCASE]

El Bandito, on 12 September 2017 - 08:00 AM, said:

That said, IS has the best Light hunter in the form of Assassin. Clan side does not have any equivalent to it.

How do you expect the the Arctic Wolf to slot into that conversation?

Edited by LT. HARDCASE, 12 September 2017 - 09:53 AM.

[Athom83]

LT. HARDCASE, on 12 September 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

How do you expect the the Arctic Wolf to slot into that conversation?

It will be quite good, but not super amazing.

[El Bandito]

LT. HARDCASE, on 12 September 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

How do you expect the the Arctic Wolf to slot into that conversation?

Arctic Wolf will definitely come very close to the Assassin. It will have superior alpha/DPS than the Assassin, but much less durability, cause I cannot envision PGI giving it (especially the ACW-1 with 9 missile hardpoints) any noticeable durability quirks.

[Athom83]

So... when does the contest end and what are our prizes .

[SeventhSL]

I prefer DPS over Alpha with Streaks any day.

You can't fire them without first obtaining a lock and then they travel directly to the target. That means a lot of face time with the enemy. Spending that time to fire a single alpha before repeating the process just seams second rate to me. If your going to hunt lights, and your going to use Streaks to do it, then you really need the speed to maintain contact with them.

The advantage of the Storm Crow is its extra speed to help stay with lights. Swap its C-Streak to an IS Streak loadout and it would still be every bit as deadly vs lights.

[Jackal Noble]

El Bandito, on 12 September 2017 - 03:56 PM, said:

Arctic Wolf will definitely come very close to the Assassin. It will have superior alpha/DPS than the Assassin, but much less durability, cause I cannot envision PGI giving it (especially the ACW-1 with 9 missile hardpoints) any noticeable durability quirks.

right, but at 40 tons, it will be hard pressed to fully utilize all of those missile points. 9 streak srm2s come mind tho.

A 40 ton mech that goes sub-100 kph is mincemeat most times. look at it's little brother the cougar.

Edited by JackalBeast, 12 September 2017 - 09:59 PM.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Athom83, on 12 September 2017 - 04:53 PM, said:

So... when does the contest end and what are our prizes .

The contest will never end, the prize is the contest. A pleasant discussion with your fellow mechwarriors on the intricacies of a tiny segment of MWO tech.

[Athom83]

Racerxintegra2k, on 13 September 2017 - 04:36 AM, said:

The contest will never end, the prize is the contest. A pleasant discussion with your fellow mechwarriors on the intricacies of a tiny segment of MWO tech.

Boo.