84 replies to this topic

[Marius Evander]

If HG won i dont think you would have to worry about unseen being removed, you'd have to worry about whole game being removed filing bankruptcy ?

[TheFallOfTheReaper]

Lol, hg has no hope tho, so constantly debating it is kicking a dead horse. :3

Edited by ShadowHimself, 12 September 2017 - 04:47 PM.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

MovinTarget, on 12 September 2017 - 01:00 PM, said:

Its just like when they show food in a commercial... is it ever that mouth-wateringly attractive in real life?

That is not a commercial. It has price and describes what is being sold. Commercials are not that spesific and they can be more loose.

It's "product packaging". If ketchup is being sold from yellow bottle it better be yellow, or it's misleading.

Cadoazreal, on 12 September 2017 - 04:32 PM, said:

If HG won i dont think you would have to worry about unseen being removed, you'd have to worry about whole game being removed filing bankruptcy ?

I see no other alternative. No company the size of PGI could possibly have that much money.

[Horseman]

Arkhangel, on 12 September 2017 - 03:42 PM, said:

Honest as has been said, Shadow, even on the smaller freaking chance that HG wins, and it's an infintessimally small one, because they're idiots, PGI would just probably modify the look of the Mechs to be more like the last Reseen look, which HG definitely can't touch anyways. hence, no need for refunds. you'd still have the mech, just with slightly different geometry.

According to PGI's statements in the court filings, HG has shown a tendency to act as if they consider any mecha to be in violation of "their" copyrights.

Arnie1808, on 12 September 2017 - 01:42 PM, said:

Slightly different. I can see where your coming from but if I seen say a Pontiac firebird and bought it thinking that looks really cool I can look like Burt Reynolds in that

You saw a Firebird with a flame paintjob, you got a standard Firebird and you have the option to have it repainted to look like the one you saw.
That's literally all you're getting outraged over.

[Arnie1808]

How hard is this for you to grasp? Why would I want to pay for extra for something that should be included in the purchase?
If we continue with the car theme if I'm going to buy a car I've seen painted a certain way but upon delivery the paint job doesn't look anything like the picture it gets sent back and made to look like advertised or I get a refund it's that simple.

Look at it a different way if you bought something off EBay say a battery power drill and it was green in the picture but when it arrived it was bright pink and had hello kitty stickers plastered all over it, are you going to take that thing to work and get laughed at or are you going to send it back and say what the hell is this that's not what is in the picture? But I suppose hearing your opinion you would buy a tin of hammerite.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Question - what colour are these 'mechs on the store page? You know, where you actually buy them? It's green, isn't it? Yes, it is green. So you saw a flier for a car in blazing orange, but when you go to buy one it ("it" being the dealership or the website) tells you it's only available in green. Green is the only option for the basic package, blazing orange is extra. You know this before you buy it. This is no different.

Only the splash graphic for the sale has this camo, nowhere on the store page where you actually buy these 'mechs are those camos shown, listed or referenced. Only basic green, the Collector's Special camo and the Hero camo can be seen on the page you buy them.

[Arnie1808]

So why pick that camo to display them like they are collection? Wouldn't it have been a better idea to show them as the hero variants or the collectors special mechs.
As you said yourself nowhere on the page you buy the mechs is that camo displayed at all so why show it in the first place!
As I said it's misleading.

[Jay Leon Hart]

It's a nice camo, so they get people talking about what the camo is and what colours they used, so maybe people purchase those as well.

I think we do have stricter advertising laws in the UK, so I can see why you think the way you do.

[Arnie1808]

The problem is I seen that pic and thought they look like a nice collection and they have a similar camo which would be nice to own seeing as they are calling it the Alpha Lance which is a group of mechs but when you go to buy them the camo is not with the pack and there is no mention of the camo they are wearing which to me is misleading.
If I went to buy a hero mech and it came in just a flat green colour and you had to buy the special camo I would feel like im being taken for a mug which to me is the same thing with this sale.
Why put these mechs in a lance and camo them up like that when that's not what you get? The camo isn't even listed in the pack as saying not included and seeing as it's a sale why isn't the camo 20% off if you don't get it included as it's in the picture on the mechs?

[Jay Leon Hart]

"Alpha Lance" is, as far as I can tell, how PGI refers to a category of 'mechs, initially the Marauder/Warhammer/Rifleman/Archer and now including the Phoenix Hawk /Marauder IIC.

[Horseman]

Arnie1808, on 13 September 2017 - 12:23 AM, said:

How hard is this for you to grasp? Why would I want to pay for extra for something that should be included in the purchase?

"Should" because you want it? Sorry to say mate, but that's just sense of entitlement talking.

Quote

If we continue with the car theme if I'm going to buy a car I've seen painted a certain way but upon delivery the paint job doesn't look anything like the picture it gets sent back and made to look like advertised or I get a refund it's that simple.

Only if you were led to believe that the paint job in question comes standard or the purchase contract specified the car's coloring. Otherwise, the seller is free to deliver it painted pink with white polka dots if that's what he has in stock.

Quote

Look at it a different way if you bought something off EBay say a battery power drill and it was green in the picture but when it arrived it was bright pink and had hello kitty stickers plastered all over it, are you going to take that thing to work and get laughed at or are you going to send it back and say what the hell is this that's not what is in the picture? But I suppose hearing your opinion you would buy a tin of hammerite.

Not an applicable analogy due to different purpose of the item.

Quote

The camo isn't even listed in the pack as saying not included

Rule of thumb is: you only get what the pack in the store explicitly states it includes ( as seen with packs that do include camo schemes and paints, such as Resistance Two). That's hardy difficult to comprehend.
Following your logic to its' logical conclusion, we arrive to an absurd situation where each and every pack in store would have to explicitly list it does not include several dozen different items (and neither the kitchen sink, I guess).

Quote

and seeing as it's a sale why isn't the camo 20% off if you don't get it included as it's in the picture on the mechs?

That much I'd probably agree with. And while I'd agree that PGI should make it clearer that the displayed camo is a separate purchase, there's an old maxim I'd like to remind you of: caveat emptor.

[Zandel Corrin]

Don't really need more mechs and I'm not a massive fan of these but on principle i'm going to buy them.

That principle of course being "F&*K Harmony Gold!"

[Ruediger Steiner]

Horseman, on 12 September 2017 - 08:59 AM, said:

Contact support and ask for a refund.

Well here is the answer.

Quote

Unfortunately, we're only able to retroactively apply promo bonuses to purchases that were made within a day or two of the promo start as the sale is not going to start until the 26th. Those kinds of considerations are typically made for players who didn't qualify due to processing errors, time zone quirks, or during a general grace period for purchases that were made very close to the promo start.

I'm very sorry that we couldn't be of more help with this.


[color=#2b2e2f]
Piranha Games[/color]

In short "**** you".

And btw, the lawsuit against PGI is already closed, since a japanese court sayed that HG does not have the licence/copyright for Macross. Thay said so in 2003! So ... **** you HG.
If i were Mr. Weisman, i would get every cent back from HG.

Forgot the link.

https://www.reddit.c...u_harmony_gold/

Edited by Wishmast3r, 13 September 2017 - 07:59 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Arnie1808, on 13 September 2017 - 12:23 AM, said:

Look at it a different way if you bought something off EBay say a battery power drill and it was green in the picture but when it arrived it was bright pink and had hello kitty stickers plastered all over it, are you going to take that thing to work and get laughed at or are you going to send it back and say what the hell is this that's not what is in the picture? But I suppose hearing your opinion you would buy a tin of hammerite.

I would, and then I'd be selling it to the female carpenters at the job site for a profit...

Seriously? You have NO idea how much Hello Kitty stuff is worth to the right buyer...

[dominikabra]

Wishmast3r, on 13 September 2017 - 08:00 AM, said:

And btw, the lawsuit against PGI is already closed, since a japanese court sayed that HG does not have the licence/copyright for Macross. Thay said so in 2003! So ... **** you HG.
If i were Mr. Weisman, i would get every cent back from HG.

Forgot the link.

https://www.reddit.c...u_harmony_gold/

Reviewing the United States Court Archive document from the reddit link above I must admit that while the Harebrained suposed resemblance is really far fetched, the designs by PGI are strikingly similar to the Macross ones... I wouldn't have been surprised if they had scored that one. Pages 10, 11 and 12 of the document below:

https://www.unitedst...242820/1-0.html

Noob question: are there any lore-ish designs of the Battletech mechs that precede the Macross ones?

Edited by dominikabra, 13 September 2017 - 08:38 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Arnie1808, on 13 September 2017 - 01:18 AM, said:

The problem is I seen that pic and thought they look like a nice collection and they have a similar camo which would be nice to own seeing as they are calling it the Alpha Lance which is a group of mechs but when you go to buy them the camo is not with the pack and there is no mention of the camo they are wearing which to me is misleading.
If I went to buy a hero mech and it came in just a flat green colour and you had to buy the special camo I would feel like im being taken for a mug which to me is the same thing with this sale.
Why put these mechs in a lance and camo them up like that when that's not what you get? The camo isn't even listed in the pack as saying not included and seeing as it's a sale why isn't the camo 20% off if you don't get it included as it's in the picture on the mechs?

You've had a forum account for six years and you haven't yet figured what is included with pack purchases, and what isn't... and that they have often re-camo'ed mechs for particular event/sale promotions ? The german beer festival one last fall for example, they had an atlas in the mountain line camo with the colors of the german flag.

https://mwomercs.com...201610playdaily

[Dee Eight]

dominikabra, on 13 September 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

Noob question: are there any lore-ish designs of the Battletech mechs that precede the Macross ones?

Yes. Of the original Battlemechs in the original boxed set of the table top game... there were 14 mechs total. The Stinger, Wasp, Phoenix Hawk and Crusader were variations of the Valkyries from Macross (namely a VF-1A, VF-1D, VF-1S with Super armor pack, and a VF-1J with Armored pack). The Marauder, Warhammer, Rifleman and Archer were of course also from Macross being respectively the Glaug,Tomahawk, Defender X, and Spartan. Of the remaining six mechs, five of them being the Thunderbolt, Battlemaster, Wolverine, Griffin, and Shadow Hawk all came from the series Fang of the Sun Dougram which broadcast Oct 81-Mar 83. The final one, the locust came from Crusher Joe which was originally a series of novels that began in 1977 and in 1983 became a full anime movie. Macross for perspective broadcast from Oct 82-June 83. So Fang of the sun was on the air a full year prior to Macross, and Crusher Joe's artwork was before even that but didn't get produced into an anime on film until about the same time Macross was ending its broadcast run.

[Arnie1808]

Dee Eight, on 13 September 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

You've had a forum account for six years and you haven't yet figured what is included with pack purchases, and what isn't... and that they have often re-camo'ed mechs for particular event/sale promotions ? The german beer festival one last fall for example, they had an atlas in the mountain line camo with the colors of the german flag.

https://mwomercs.com...201610playdaily

I was in the Beta years ago and I stopped playing and I've not played for a long time so to answer your question no buying packs like this is all new to me but now I understand how it works I'll be more cautious.

[latinisator]

Arnie1808, on 13 September 2017 - 09:35 AM, said:

I was in the Beta years ago and I stopped playing and I've not played for a long time so to answer your question no buying packs like this is all new to me but now I understand how it works I'll be more cautious.

You may still ask questions, you know. Be it an "ancient" account or a new one, everybody can have a "bad cerebral day" or simply just don't know this or that. And now buy that stuff! To hell with HG!

[Horseman]

dominikabra, on 13 September 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

Reviewing the United States Court Archive document from the reddit link above I must admit that while the Harebrained suposed resemblance is really far fetched, the designs by PGI are strikingly similar to the Macross ones... I wouldn't have been surprised if they had scored that one. Pages 10, 11 and 12 of the document below:
https://www.unitedst...242820/1-0.html

"Similar" is not the same as "infringing". The court first has to determine which aspects of the Macross designs may be copyrightable in the first place.

In fact, there is a past legal case that sets a precedent here - one that is not favorable to HG. FASA lost the lawsuit it filed against Playmates years ago because this was ruled non-infringing to this on basis of small but cumulative differences. Anyone interested in the details can refer to this court ruling for a list (point #58 onward)

Quote

75. Numerous key design differences outweigh any general similarities in the designs of the Mad Cat and the Heavy Attack E-Frame and indicate that one was not copied from the other. The protectible aspects of the Mad Cat and Heavy Attack E-Frame designs are substantially dissimilar. (PX 799F; Appendix .

I'm no legal expert, but it would seem that the level of differences between HG's allegedly owned images and PGI's designs is quite greater than what has been observed there.

And the thing is... the case may even not get that far. HG's arbitration case with Tatsunoko established that they do not own the copyrights to 41 character designs - including all mecha designs - from Macross... including the exact ones they are suing over.

Edited by Horseman, 14 September 2017 - 05:50 AM.