93 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

Boiler moves too slowly that's for sure.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

El Bandito, on 19 September 2017 - 08:19 AM, said:

Except Warhawk Prime with its 4% CERPPC heat gen quirk was used as CERPPC boat even before players found out about the Warhawk-C.

No, it lost a significant portion of its heat gen quirk to the skill tree patch (but the C remained intact), the Prime was never meta like the C is today because again, significant changes happened between the two.

JackalBeast, on 19 September 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

And also no. HLL despite the longer burn duration are still far less sustainable then the ER-Large.

They have damn near the same max heat per second (2.19 vs 1.96), the difference in sustainability is not that large since the HLL is also nets you more damage per heat (making the difference in HPS less poignant).

[Luminis]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

They have damn near the same max heat per second (2.19 vs 1.96), the difference in sustainability is not that large since the HLL is also nets you more damage per heat (making the difference in HPS less poignant).

If this is still strictly about the Deathstrike, then the thing with the HLL is that you run out of slots due to their larger bulk so you can't trade engine size for DHS as easily. Results is like two lost DHS when running HLLs instead of ERLLs if I remember correctly, so there's that.

[Gas Guzzler]

Luminis, on 19 September 2017 - 10:05 AM, said:

If this is still strictly about the Deathstrike, then the thing with the HLL is that you run out of slots due to their larger bulk so you can't trade engine size for DHS as easily. Results is like two lost DHS when running HLLs instead of ERLLs if I remember correctly, so there's that.

That's true, and one of the reasons I prefer the 20 DHS ERLL version, but some people are running the HLL version.

I do however run 2 HLLs and 2 ERMLs with dual Gauss on the -1 with an XL360, and while not as offensively powerful as the DS (follow up alpha comes a bit later), the extra mobility is SUPER nice.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Luminis, on 19 September 2017 - 10:05 AM, said:

If this is still strictly about the Deathstrike, then the thing with the HLL is that you run out of slots due to their larger bulk so you can't trade engine size for DHS as easily. Results is like two lost DHS when running HLLs instead of ERLLs if I remember correctly, so there's that.

This is true, but the difference in sustainability still isn't huge and you are still getting a larger alpha which is generally acceptable to trade sustainability for, the main problem is that you can't do 2 consecutive alphas even on HLL cooldown due to just how much heat is generated at least until heat containment is fixed (not sure this will make it possible still but we shall see) and the range is a little bit lower with the HLL variant.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 19 September 2017 - 10:13 AM.

[Luminis]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 September 2017 - 10:08 AM, said:

That's true, and one of the reasons I prefer the 20 DHS ERLL version, but some people are running the HLL version.

I do however run 2 HLLs and 2 ERMLs with dual Gauss on the -1 with an XL360, and while not as offensively powerful as the DS (follow up alpha comes a bit later), the extra mobility is SUPER nice.

I run the 2 HLL 4 ERML DS with an XL360 + TC1 or XL355 + JJ (and some missing leg armour)

/edit:
After messing about a little, I just wanted to add this:
You might not be able to alpha twice with the HLL DS build, but you can alpha for 94 damage during the first cycle, fire Gauss + HLL on the second cycle for 66 damage and Gauss + ERML for 58 on the third cycle (with a very mild override). While not an alpha strike, it's still a considerable amount of damage.

Edited by Luminis, 19 September 2017 - 10:45 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Luminis, on 19 September 2017 - 10:15 AM, said:

I run the 2 HLL 4 ERML DS with an XL360 + TC1 or XL355 + JJ (and some missing leg armour)

How many DHS? 16?

[Luminis]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 September 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

How many DHS? 16?

17. Only running four tons of Gauss ammo, though.

/Edit:
Here's the build.

Edited by Luminis, 19 September 2017 - 10:55 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Luminis, on 19 September 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

17. Only running four tons of Gauss ammo, though.

2 tons of Gauss ammo per rifle is typical for Gauss vomit. I don't really run Ferro to upgrade the engine because I generally find the extra heat sinks more worth the tonnage than 8kph.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 19 September 2017 - 11:01 AM.

[Luminis]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2017 - 11:00 AM, said:

2 tons of Gauss ammo per rifle is typical for Gauss vomit.

Makes sense, I can't remember running out of ammo before running out of targets (or dying).

[Jackal Noble]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2017 - 11:00 AM, said:

2 tons of Gauss ammo per rifle is typical for Gauss vomit. I don't really run Ferro to upgrade the engine because I generally find the extra heat sinks more worth the tonnage than 8kph.

Must be an OCD thing, but i run 2x gauss with 5 tons because with the bonus 2 rounds per ton, you end up with a clean 60 rounds (6t).

Edited by JackalBeast, 19 September 2017 - 11:06 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

JackalBeast, on 19 September 2017 - 11:05 AM, said:

Must be an OCD thing, but i run 2x gauss with 5 tons because with the bonus 2 rounds per ton, you end up with a clean 60 rounds (6t).

48 rounds keeps me pretty comfy. Multiple 1400-1500 games with that much ammo so I don't think more is needed.

[panzer1b]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 September 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

48 rounds keeps me pretty comfy. Multiple 1400-1500 games with that much ammo so I don't think more is needed.

Personally ive found 3 tons per gun to be good for games i play (lets me take risky shots and miss a few without being screwed). That said, maybee its because i play FW with my unit and some friends often enough and in that environment im almost always running out of ammo in ammo dependent builds.

As for the deathstrike, the reason i find it to be the king of assaults is the combination of respectable sustained DPS (5.2 from just the 2 gauss rifles, and 3+ or so atop it with lasers depending on the heatsinks you have), workable mobility (its no rocket, but its neither excessively slow nor turns badly), and some of the craziest potential lafa strike you can get out of a mech (106 if you use the bad HMLs, 94 if you use the more practical 2 HLL and 4 ERML build). It really comes down to the fact that almost no mech can outtrade this thing in a single alfa strike (a few can but they have critical weaknesses in either hardpoint locations, hitboxes, mobility, ect or rely on weapons that spread all over like ATM-48), and the deathstrike actually has both the mobility and sustained DPS to play agressively if needed (its going to be beaten in an agressive push by dedicated brawlers, but unlike pure laser vomit, its not completely useless in such a push and can even be used in a brawl if you must). The final reason its so crazy, is that it actually is able to do maximum damage just under 500m (with range skills), meaning you dont even need to take a huge risk when engaging (and there are a good number of builds that cant even do full damage at that range which gives you even more of a advantage in any trade). All this combined with favorable hardpoints (gauss in arms, ST energy slots), makes the deathstrike in my opinion a p2w mech, there are ways to counter the gauss vomit strat, but considering how critical the poking phase is of a game, nothing really beats the deathstrike in this regard.

Anyways deathstrike rant aside, i dont think the SNV deserved the nerf. It was already comparable to the mad2c, but had less top speed in exchange for slightly better agility (better in a pokefest, worse at everything else). Maybee the best of the best were able to do super well in the SNV, but in random drops i would consider it an ok mech at best probably on par if not a hair worse then the mad2c laser boats (both have similar hitboxes/tankiness). Maybee its just me, but i never saw that mech as super well performing or even competitive (i do better in heavys then any assault, as i can actually evade a good deal of fire outright and still carry 75% of the firepower of an assault).