93 replies to this topic

[Ghogiel]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 September 2017 - 06:56 PM, said:

It was better in some situations, but the MCII is better than both.

But it isn't out for cbills.

Fact is if the goal is to bring the SNV1 in line with other agility nerfed assaults, then it's a pretty expected nerf.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I honestly don't get PGI. The SNV-1 is the variant I feel is the weakest and never play but somehow it needs a nerf....ah, yeah...right.

Just PGI playing Wack-a-mole with the Clans again. I mean they made Clan UAC/10s worse....again as well <sigh>. Also why nerf a Warhawk? I mean does anyone play those POS any more?

Also they can't go one patch, not one without nerfing some mech I enjoy playing like the Hunchback IIA.

I seriously wish they would knock this crap off. If I a mech has been out longer than 60 days, it should be stable, not subject to nerfs. I mean the Hunchback IIC has been out for almost a year. You mean it took them all this time to figure out it needed a nerf??

This all goes back to what I keep saying. Every patch, something negative. I can't remember one patch so far that I haven't found myself irked, frustrated or pissed off about, not one. Just more and more negativity time and time again.

[Gas Guzzler]

El Bandito, on 18 September 2017 - 06:59 PM, said:

1. MCII is not better than both in terms of laser-vomit, which is what SNV-1 and MAD-IIC are about. Lasvomit is probably the target here--especially since Heat Containment will soon take account of TOTAL heat capacity.

2. As for gaussvomit MCII-1, I tried it and the lack of 2 energy makes it far less effective than DS.

Its about overall power. Gauss vomit and laser vomit both are about high alpha poke, so they are comparable.

The difference for me is XL300 dual gauss 2 ERLL 4 ERML vs XL360 dual gauss 2HLL, 2 ERML. They both have the same alpha, just the cooldown on the HLLs is worse. Extra speed is nice... its maybe a touch behind but not by much. Still, regardless of being cash only, the DS is in the game, so it can't be ignored.

[El Bandito]

Viktor Drake, on 18 September 2017 - 07:18 PM, said:

I honestly don't get PGI. The SNV-1 is the variant I feel is the weakest and never play but somehow it needs a nerf....ah, yeah...right.

Nah, I have plenty of people telling me the SNV-1 is the most useful variant.

Viktor Drake, on 18 September 2017 - 07:18 PM, said:

Also why nerf a Warhawk? I mean does anyone play those POS any more?

Warhawk-C was top tier sniper in CW. (MS) spammed that variant on maps such as Polar, Plexus, and Frozen, to devastating effect. We are in part to be blamed for Warhawk-C nerf.

Players still have Warhawk-Prime to fall back to.

Edited by El Bandito, 18 September 2017 - 07:30 PM.

[Christophe Ivanov]

Khobai, on 18 September 2017 - 05:31 PM, said:

direwolf is garbage. it needs atlas/annihilator level structure buffs just to be minimally viable.

I do pretty good in my Dire Wolf Prime and UV thank you very much. As always, PRACTICE, PRACTICE and know your mech well and how to fight in it with the weapons you have. Yeah it's not the best, but we all are different in our choices.
my Anii
Oh and YES I mastered both DW's and my Anni as well. So I know how each fights.

Edited by Christophe Ivanov, 18 September 2017 - 07:32 PM.

[Shadowomega1]

FireStoat, on 18 September 2017 - 05:16 PM, said:

The supernova had to be nerfed because like the MAD IIC, you can buy it for Cbills. PGI has shown in the past that if there's a shiny new mech available only for real money, the free mechs that give it competition have to be clubbed down.

Yeah, this sounds rude and harsh but I can supply the evidence to back it up.

Yet the MAD IIC is also out for Cbills. Now if you said Timberwolf/Madcat MK II then yea, however the MK II was by far their best selling mech with the Uziel taking the second best for this batch.

While I think they messed up with this change I found the Hunchback IIC A change even worse.

As for the Warhawk its kind of like wtf, if that is the pulse laser variant than it should have been just a change to pulse laser heat reduction or added to set of 8.

*Edit add a certain set of IS medium mechs didn't get their armor reduced so it isn't running around with the same armor as an 80/85 ton assault mech with the internals of a 75 ton heavy mech. *

Edited by Shadowomega1, 18 September 2017 - 07:44 PM.

[MadRover]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 September 2017 - 05:18 PM, said:

If you have a log of this, I would be very interested to see it publicly shown here in this thread...

Just look at the long list of mechs that came out and see which ones got nerfed. Main reason why I am still hesitant to buy both the Nightstar and the Arctic Wolf

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Scout Derek, on 18 September 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

I have a feeling you haven't really tapped into Kodiaks then...

No, Kodiaks really aren't good unless you are just trying to run PUG queue with them, and even then, despite the wide stance, the MCII with 4 UAC10s is still better.

El Bandito, on 18 September 2017 - 06:46 PM, said:

Good players already pointed out that current SNV-1 is better than MAD-IIC.

Depends on what you need.
Need speed to close the range gap or support a push/rush? Take the MAD-IIC.
Map/game mode force players to get close enough to not necessarily need speed? Take the SVN
Need ERLL boat? Take the SVN

Khobai, on 18 September 2017 - 05:31 PM, said:

direwolf is garbage. it needs atlas/annihilator level structure buffs just to be minimally viable.

No, you just need to stop being bad. It could use some help to compete with mechs like the MCII, but compared to the SVN, it really isn't that bad.

[Y E O N N E]

MadRover, on 18 September 2017 - 07:51 PM, said:

Just look at the long list of mechs that came out and see which ones got nerfed. Main reason why I am still hesitant to buy both the Nightstar and the Arctic Wolf

Nothing about the Nightstar suggests it will perform to such a noteworthy level that getting nerfed later should be a serious concern. It won't threaten the MCII at all, and in fact would have a difficult time unseating the humble Stalker.

Buy it because it looks pretty and nothing more.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

El Bandito, on 18 September 2017 - 06:59 PM, said:

1. MCII is not better than both in terms of laser-vomit, which is what SNV-1 and MAD-IIC are about.

Which says that PGI still don't understand their game because Gauss vomit is still better the only problem is all the options for it are behind a paywall right now outside the Whale (which I prefer over the SVN, but getting teammates to experiment with it is difficult at this point in time).

El Bandito, on 18 September 2017 - 07:27 PM, said:

Players still have Warhawk-Prime to fall back to.

That's not near as good, that heat gen quirk really made a difference (what was it, like a 9% difference).

[Trenchbird]

Can we stop talking about other mechs compared to eachother?

I mean, I get it if they are in terms of "Compared to the SNV-1, this mech is obviously more deserving of NERFS".

Either way, I don't think the SNV-1 deserved a nerf at all. If I see SNVs it's always the SNV-A, but that doesn't really need nerfing either. If anything, the chassis is at least okay where it's at, it just needs more variance in build types.

Edited by Catten Hart, 18 September 2017 - 08:07 PM.

[FireStoat]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 September 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

Nothing about the Nightstar suggests it will perform to such a noteworthy level that getting nerfed later should be a serious concern. It won't threaten the MCII at all, and in fact would have a difficult time unseating the humble Stalker.

Buy it because it looks pretty and nothing more.

The Nightstar's weapon mounts is the big deal for the chassis. Nearly everything is eye level or higher, with hitboxes reminiscent of a Marauder (albeit a fat one) which has proven in the past to be good. Now, if it's launched with normal quirks of low values AND an appropriate agility profile when its weapon mounts are taken into consideration (and tonnage), then I see little reason for it to be nerfed.

PGI's had a track record of releasing both assault and heavy mechs that are shiny and new to have somewhat better than average quirks AND agility profiles, which remain in play up until the moment the mech is available for Cbills, at which point the nerfs land because "enough time has passed since its release for our data collection to be complete". No, this does not happen every time. The Linebacker is a good example of a mech not being kneecapped once it's out for Cbills. But it does happen with some regularity, and when it does happen, it's always blanket nerfs to the entire line of variants of the chassis as opposed to the ones that are overperforming.

The MAD IIC & Kodiak are excellent examples of this - the MAD IIC (D) variant and the Spirit Bear came nowhere NEAR to the performance level of the Scorch, MAD IIC (A), or KDK (3) yet they ate the same nerfs regardless. I'm at a loss as to why people are surprised that there's a track record for PGI's history in this. All you have to do is follow along as mechs become old and new mechs are released.

Edit - to answer the OP, No. No, I don't think it deserved a nerf. It was on good footing when compared to the MAD IIC in that it had a slightly superior agility profile at the expense of a lower engine cap. That's the very definition of balance.

Edited by FireStoat, 18 September 2017 - 08:14 PM.

[Nightbird]

I am disappointed that my nerf MAD-IIC thread didn't work

[Gas Guzzler]

NlGHTBlRD, on 18 September 2017 - 08:14 PM, said:

I am disappointed that my nerf MAD-IIC thread didn't work

LOL. I had almost forgotten about that. No, they nerfed the SNV-1 instead

[InvictusLee]

Scout Derek, on 18 September 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

And MCII is not the best mech in the assault category; You can't really use missiles on it, it's arms are weak and easy to crit, and more importantly, a Mech such as the Kodiak beats the crap out of it, both in brawling and armor/speed

All of my MCII's disagree. xD.

[El Bandito]

Shadowomega1, on 18 September 2017 - 07:40 PM, said:

As for the Warhawk its kind of like wtf, if that is the pulse laser variant than it should have been just a change to pulse laser heat reduction or added to set of 8.

People were using its heat reduction quirks for CERPPC sniping. PGI should have changed the quirks to CPulse heat reduction.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 18 September 2017 - 08:04 PM, said:

That's not near as good, that heat gen quirk really made a difference (what was it, like a 9% difference).

It is PGI's intention to have Warhawk sniping to be less good than before. Besides, heat containment is getting a noticeable buff, which will help DHS spamming mechs such as the Warhawk.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 18 September 2017 - 08:04 PM, said:

Which says that PGI still don't understand their game because Gauss vomit is still better the only problem is all the options for it are behind a paywall right now outside the Whale (which I prefer over the SVN, but getting teammates to experiment with it is difficult at this point in time).

Gauss vomit will be nerfed sooner or later. For now Chris seems to be pre-emptively toning down the SNV-1 due to heat containment change. MAD-IIC is already slapped down.

Edited by El Bandito, 18 September 2017 - 08:26 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

FireStoat, on 18 September 2017 - 08:12 PM, said:

The Nightstar's weapon mounts is the big deal for the chassis. Nearly everything is eye level or higher, with hitboxes reminiscent of a Marauder (albeit a fat one) which has proven in the past to be good. Now, if it's launched with normal quirks of low values AND an appropriate agility profile when its weapon mounts are taken into consideration (and tonnage), then I see little reason for it to be nerfed.

PGI's had a track record of releasing both assault and heavy mechs that are shiny and new to have somewhat better than average quirks AND agility profiles, which remain in play up until the moment the mech is available for Cbills, at which point the nerfs land because "enough time has passed since its release for our data collection to be complete". No, this does not happen every time. The Linebacker is a good example of a mech not being kneecapped once it's out for Cbills. But it does happen with some regularity, and when it does happen, it's always blanket nerfs to the entire line of variants of the chassis as opposed to the ones that are overperforming.

I'm aware of the Nightstar's strengths. I'm also aware of the fact that the weapons payload you can put on it is not even a little bit exceptional. You will cap out around 60 damage (if even that) just like you do with every other IS assault, and we've already got the ultimate in cockpit level mounts with the faster-running Battlemaster, and the Battlemaster actually still has some very good quirks. 52 points of pure vomit from a Battlemaster 3M is likely more valuable than anything you can put on a Nightstar. unless you dramatically exceed the value of the Battlemaster's quirks and I simply don't see a good chance of that happening.

[Gas Guzzler]

FireStoat, on 18 September 2017 - 08:12 PM, said:

The Nightstar's weapon mounts is the big deal for the chassis. Nearly everything is eye level or higher, with hitboxes reminiscent of a Marauder (albeit a fat one) which has proven in the past to be good. Now, if it's launched with normal quirks of low values AND an appropriate agility profile when its weapon mounts are taken into consideration (and tonnage), then I see little reason for it to be nerfed.

PGI's had a track record of releasing both assault and heavy mechs that are shiny and new to have somewhat better than average quirks AND agility profiles, which remain in play up until the moment the mech is available for Cbills, at which point the nerfs land because "enough time has passed since its release for our data collection to be complete". No, this does not happen every time. The Linebacker is a good example of a mech not being kneecapped once it's out for Cbills. But it does happen with some regularity, and when it does happen, it's always blanket nerfs to the entire line of variants of the chassis as opposed to the ones that are overperforming.

I don't really see any loadout options on the Nightstar that warrant anything close to a nerf. Can you come up with one?

[Dee Eight]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 September 2017 - 04:49 PM, said:

The large mobility nerf to the SNV-1 rubs me a little bit the wrong away. I kind of felt like that was its defining trait over the MAD-IIC which has access to a much larger engine, and now its mobility is the same. It was nice to feel a little bit more spry in exchange for the ~12 kph lower speed.

The SNV-1 now went right past the agility of the -3 and the -A, and now shares the same agility as the Boiler and the -C.

And still.. the MCII still has the crown in the assault category, so it probably could have stayed where it was..

SNV-3 and A's agility is still higher. In the SNV agility range...it went 1, then 3 & A, then all the others the same. The 1, 3 and B all have structure quirks, the 1 and B get armor quirks also. The 1 also has the only weapon quirk.

[Gas Guzzler]

Dee Eight, on 18 September 2017 - 08:53 PM, said:

SNV-3 and A's agility is still higher. In the SNV agility range...it went 1, then 3 & A, then all the others the same.

You misunderstood me apparently because that's exactly what I said.