58 replies to this topic

[Jman5]

Generally speaking the first handful of people to burn through their first four mechs are the worst players on the team. The guys who just downloaded the game a few days ago and are trying out all the different modes. The guys who only wind up doing 400 damage and dying by wave 3.

I think they should be given a 5th trial mech to drop in if they are one of the first four to die. This would allow them to continue participating even though they aren't contributing a whole lot. The trial mech would be limited to a light or a medium.

So total mechs go from 48 to 52 where the 4 extra are given to the worst players on that team. Mech choice is limited to trial builds to limit their capability. I think this would help smooth things out better in a more natural way. Doing it by Tier creates problems where some people might create alternate accounts to game it.

Doing this allows these struggling players to do a little more damage and are more likely to be able to participate in all four waves of an attack.

[justcallme A S H]

You been drinking mate?

[Jman5]

justcallme A S H, on 19 September 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

You been drinking mate?

I'm open to suggestions, but we don't have a matchmaker. I think there ought to be some way of balancing the scales a little.

One popular suggestion in the same vein is to adjust tonnage caps based on a player's tier. That's an option, but you run into potential issues when players use alt accounts for max tonnage. Or edge cases of players who would be higher tier if they played Quickplay instead of FP. Plus the question is does giving more tonnage to a casual or beginner player allow them to do more damage? I think it's questionable.

In my experience what I see happening to the more casual players is that they wind up burning multiple mechs on one wave. By the 4th wave a struggling pug squad on attack will often be down 4 or 5 guys. Giving the people struggling the most a mediocre bonus mech will at least allow them to participate longer and fill out the 4th wave with bodies.

This would also have the added benefit for better teams out there as they will have more mechs to shoot and get to earn more cbills and xp in all-kill games.

Edited by Jman5, 19 September 2017 - 10:46 AM.

[Koniving]

Manual control of the Long Tom might be nice.
But then everyone might be competing to die quickly for that.

[Davegt27]

good idea JMAN but it wont work
there would be these guys burning through 5 Mechs before other people go through 4

I thought I had a video of us going through Alpha gate and right before I died I noticed
5 Mechs that did not push
I died alone up front as usual

[Exilyth]

Make the 5th drop an urbie with stock engine.
The pain will make them learn.

[Jman5]

Davegt27, on 19 September 2017 - 10:20 AM, said:

good idea JMAN but it wont work
there would be these guys burning through 5 Mechs before other people go through 4

I thought I had a video of us going through Alpha gate and right before I died I noticed
5 Mechs that did not push
I died alone up front as usual

Any player trying to game this would only be hurting themselves by trashing their good mechs just to play an unskilled light or medium trial mech with no consumables. Not to mention it would be a risk of going 4 and out because there is no surety that you will even be one of the first four to die. Purposefully trashing two mechs on wave 1 or 2 in the hopes that in 15-20 minutes there will still be a 5th bonus drop available is just asking to get screwed.

Edited by Jman5, 19 September 2017 - 10:55 AM.

[naterist]

Trying to suggest ways to make mwo enjoyable for people who arent already pugstomping? On this forum?

Oh my sweet summer child.

[BigScwerl]

Jman5, on 19 September 2017 - 06:58 AM, said:

Generally speaking the first handful of people to burn through their first four mechs are the worst players on the team. The guys who just downloaded the game a few days ago and are trying out all the different modes. The guys who only wind up doing 400 damage and dying by wave 3.

I think they should be given a 5th trial mech to drop in if they are one of the first four to die. This would allow them to continue participating even though they aren't contributing a whole lot. The trial mech would be limited to a light or a medium.

So total mechs go from 48 to 52 where the 4 extra are given to the worst players on that team. Mech choice is limited to trial builds to limit their capability. I think this would help smooth things out better in a more natural way. Doing it by Tier creates problems where some people might create alternate accounts to game it.

Doing this allows these struggling players to do a little more damage and are more likely to be able to participate in all four waves of an attack.

YES! that is exactly what we need. More players that just downloaded this game and don't understand how to play it participating in faction warfare!! Lets reward them for not reading the warning message that pops up the first time they try to click on the button.

I just facepalmed myself so hard....What, pray tell, are these pilots that have zero skill, knowledge, talent or viable builds doing in faction play? Giving them extra mechs will not solve this problem and I am so irritated by this suggestion that I just facepalmed again.

[Xaat Xuun]

oh . . I wouldn't even allow those players a dropship pilot license , they'll more likely drop you in the wrong spot, since they didn't listen or learned from their first 4 mechs.
Giving them a fifth mech so the other team can add even more to their paycheck from damage score, . . I just don't see how they will learn by getting a fifth mech, seems it would encourage them to repeat the same mistake.

though, if they were to be something like this, maybe do give them a drop ship license for that fifth wave, and hope they know the coordinates you're asking to be dropped at

but I think what might work, is they get multiple screens, to spectate from and see what others are doing, to learn what they should be doing

Edited by Xaat Xuun, 19 September 2017 - 01:43 PM.

[Exilyth]

If onle the mech academy had different advanced training courses explaining the game modes.

[Grus]

Jman5, on 19 September 2017 - 06:58 AM, said:

Generally speaking the first handful of people to burn through their first four mechs are the worst players on the team. The guys who just downloaded the game a few days ago and are trying out all the different modes. The guys who only wind up doing 400 damage and dying by wave 3.

I think they should be given a 5th trial mech to drop in if they are one of the first four to die. This would allow them to continue participating even though they aren't contributing a whole lot. The trial mech would be limited to a light or a medium.

So total mechs go from 48 to 52 where the 4 extra are given to the worst players on that team. Mech choice is limited to trial builds to limit their capability. I think this would help smooth things out better in a more natural way. Doing it by Tier creates problems where some people might create alternate accounts to game it.

Doing this allows these struggling players to do a little more damage and are more likely to be able to participate in all four waves of an attack.

you just want to feed KCOM more don't you.. I see what you're doing.

[TWIAFU]

Jman5, on 19 September 2017 - 06:58 AM, said:

Generally speaking the first handful of people to burn through their first four mechs are the worst players on the team. The guys who just downloaded the game a few days ago and are trying out all the different modes. The guys who only wind up doing 400 damage and dying by wave 3.

I think they should be given a 5th trial mech to drop in if they are one of the first four to die. This would allow them to continue participating even though they aren't contributing a whole lot. The trial mech would be limited to a light or a medium.

So total mechs go from 48 to 52 where the 4 extra are given to the worst players on that team. Mech choice is limited to trial builds to limit their capability. I think this would help smooth things out better in a more natural way. Doing it by Tier creates problems where some people might create alternate accounts to game it.

Doing this allows these struggling players to do a little more damage and are more likely to be able to participate in all four waves of an attack.

And you want to give the worse players on a side MORE Mechs to derp with? You think this will help them contribute? Contribute with another Trial mech?!?

WTF?!

Not only NO but a HELL NO.

Instead of giving the worse players on your team more mechs why don't we put in a hard barrier to stop them from even playing until they are ready, the warning does sh*t.

Until then, just going to send all the fresh installs wanting to play CW with trials to you and your Unit.

However, beating a 'team' 52-18/20 does sound fun and salty.

Edited by TWIAFU, 19 September 2017 - 02:27 PM.

[Jman5]

Guys, here is the reality.

Faction Play does not have the population that would allow us to just ban large swaths of the playerbase. It's not uncommon for 1/3 - 1/2 of the game to put up dreadful numbers. You ban them, and who's left? No one.

We need a better way to include the more casual players in a way that is not only beneficial to us, but also to the team they are on. We need to because they are going to be there whether you want them or not.

So what good is it to the team to give bonus mechs to guys barely scratching 500 damage? The biggest benefit for the team is that you fill out your fourth wave toward the end of the game. This is hugely important in spreading out the damage and giving the other players on the team some breathing space. In a game where my team is struggling and 3 or 4 guys are dead before wave 4 has started, my performance in that wave is always much lower than the previous waves when there were 11 other guys running around taking shots and putting heads down. Less focus fire and more time to get things done for the other players.

For the players who get the 5th mech it gives them more time to gain experience playing the game, and lets them do a little better than they otherwise would have.

I'm not trying to rag on any idea that isn't mine, but banning players is a non-starter. The numbers are low during peak hours and I can't imagine how bad it is during Oceanic. We need to come up with a solution that helps casual players do better. Not only for the team that is forced to carry them, but so that maybe we can start building the Faction Play population.

If you want the worst of the worst on your team do better than what do you suggest?

Edited by Jman5, 19 September 2017 - 06:33 PM.

[Carl Vickers]

Hi Jman, full respect dude, u are a good warrior and one of the very few to put up a good fight agasint us on Emerald over the weekend but we all need to face reality. PGI arent going to do squat for this game mode, they dont understand it at all.

Their original vision for this game mode was great, but they basically wrote cheques their butts couldnt cash. Since then it has been a long slow slide downhill with everyone getting a fair amount of gravel rash in the process.

If we gate people like we actually should there wont be enough players, if we dont gate them but give them an extra mech to try and help them, we just let them get another 50 damage ontop of their 200 damage over 4 mechs in the first place and increase their frustration when they get farmed making them less likely to come back and play again.

Either idea is unfortunately not relevant at this point in time.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Jman5, on 19 September 2017 - 06:28 PM, said:

If you want the worst of the worst on your team do better than what do you suggest?

A better NPE.

More immersive tutorials that put player through gradually more complicated scenarios to get them up to speed.

Gated opportunities that players have to "level" up to reach before they can try them out.

Put in a god damned manual of some kind (pdf is fine) that explains all of this non-intuitive stuff like ghost heat, includes game play tips (focusing fire, using the mini-map, build considerations advice etc). Stop relying on the community to provide all of this stuff via the multitude of varying media to get the word out on how **** in this game works. Yes, people are more used to using Youtube, reddit etc than ever...and yet people often DON'T. And frankly, is taking all of the "tips" that popup on the splash screen, and all of the hover tips in the UI etc....and combining them into some organized game manual all that hard atm? Probably not.

Take a page out of MMORPG books when it comes to more ramped development of players before throwing them to the "centerpiece" mode of the game. Yea, I know....it bans a bunch of people in a sense, but alot of folks would welcome all of the above if those were steps on the way to playing FP.

Edited by Lukoi Banacek, 19 September 2017 - 06:40 PM.

[Stonefalcon]

Do it. Some of us could do with the extra C-Bills from another 4 kills.

[Commander A9]

Uhh...what about the first four people to push into an enemy-held position during an attack which by design is meant to utilize speed, firepower, and shock effect to break an enemy defense?

Those aren't the worst players: they're the volunteers who elect to take point.

[justcallme A S H]

Carl Vickers, on 19 September 2017 - 06:36 PM, said:

Hi Jman, full respect dude, u are a good warrior and one of the very few to put up a good fight agasint us on Emerald over the weekend but we all need to face reality. PGI arent going to do squat for this game mode, they dont understand it at all.

Their original vision for this game mode was great, but they basically wrote cheques their butts couldnt cash. Since then it has been a long slow slide downhill with everyone getting a fair amount of gravel rash in the process.

If we gate people like we actually should there wont be enough players, if we dont gate them but give them an extra mech to try and help them, we just let them get another 50 damage ontop of their 200 damage over 4 mechs in the first place and increase their frustration when they get farmed making them less likely to come back and play again.

Either idea is unfortunately not relevant at this point in time.

Bang on.

Anyway Jman - It won't work regardless as how do you deal with it in a team environment? It's just open to abuse.

Say you are in a 8 man and you drop 2 waves of Atlas-D or some other insanely buffed mech thanks to Skill Tree and then drop 2 lights. The job of those two tankers is to die first and they get to bring back some mechs and fast reinforce?

No thanks.

Unfortunately FP is not for new people or people that 12 months of playing in it, still can only manage 400dmg across 4 mechs. These two groups of people are usually not interested in bettering themselves. Why reward it?

I did 3 drops a few nights ago where a 12BG guy was perma dead within the first 2 waves. He didn't want to listen or work as a team. Why should players like this be rewarded at any point?

[Deathlike]

This is not pinball, where if you somehow lose your first ball in like the first 15 seconds, you get a free ball.

I understand wanting to help the new player Jman5, but your solution does not solve what it aims to solve. It's just +1 mech to farm for a 60-X (or whatever the worst case is) roflstomp.

Edited by Deathlike, 19 September 2017 - 08:40 PM.