171 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

panzer1b, on 02 October 2017 - 03:12 PM, said:

Also, i gave LGRs 1 more try, and nomatter how much i want to like em, they SUCK. The issue is that using em doesnt save you enough tonnage compared to normal gauss (at most you save 6 tons if u run 2), and their stats are atrocious even after the recent buff to DPS. 16 PPFLD is irrelevant unless its firing every 3 seconds or so, and compared to GRs which give 15 PPFLD for one, and 30 for dual, its a no-brainer choice. That and since the meta right now is pokewarrior, 15 PPFLD with a lower cooldown always beats 8 with a shorter cooldown, just like how HLLs usually beat ERLLs at mid range despite both having similar DPS.

Told you so!

[MadRover]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 September 2017 - 07:25 PM, said:

So, the Light Gauss.

Current stats:
Damage: 8
Heat: 1
Range: 750 m
Velocity: 2000 m/s
Cooldown: 3.25 s
Charge-up: 0.5s
DPS: 2.13

This gun is still irredeemably bad. Why? Well, let me enlighten you using a brief example which you can replicate or very nearly replicate with almost any extreme range weapon you want:

Three ERLL have a max DPS of 6.00. With 20x DHS, which you can get easy if all you have is 3x ERLL, you have a maximum sustained DPS of 3.90. Two Light Gauss have a maximum DPS of 4.26. But that's better, you say. Well, no. That's the maximum DPS, period: total and sustained. Its burst is a piddly 16. The ERLL have a burst DPS of 24.5. The ERLL, therefore, have a comparable sustained DPS, a superior maximum DPS, and 50% more burst DPS compared to a pair of Light Gauss. A pair of Light Gauss which weigh 24 tons all by themselves, while a trio of ERLL and 10 DHS are 25. I still need to invest in another 4-5 tons to get enough ammo to give the guns enough potential damage to be at all worthwhile. We haven't even begun talking about how having to calculate deflection at those long ranges increases exposure time, while the laser just rips out the round immediately and gets to have your torso while you make that calculation.

And that's just using IS weapons. It gets even more fun when we compare it to cERLL, because then we get to remove the range advantage out of the equation entirely instead of just ignoring it because most engagements won't take place outside of 800 meters anyway. And then there's the ERPPC, which has inferior sustain but who cares? It has superior burst at 20 and doesn't even use ammo. And the Clan one deals bonus damage.

And no, you can't really combine it with lasers. There is no point. If you are adding lasers, you are going for a burst build over sustain. You need a fourth ERLL added to a build that would otherwise to 3x ERLL + Gauss, and in exchange you spend 32 tons on weapons instead of 30, you get level 1 ghost heat, and you get worse sustained DPS when you fall back on just the Gauss than you would had you taken normal Gauss. There's no synergy there.

The only 'Mechs which can really get away with Light Gauss are those with at least a 10% cooldown to ballistics and full investment into cool-down. Then, your cool-down goes to 2.535 seconds and your DPS goes up to 2.6. And even then, you still need a very long game to have an impact if you are actually using it at-range.

TL;DR: cool-down needs to be at most 2.5 seconds with zero counterbalance anywhere else on the gun or the damage needs to go up to 10 with the current cool-down and also zero additional counterbalance.

Anybody else spent a lot of time with this weapon?

Honestly the only thing LGauss is good for is for those ballistic component starved mechs. Thats it. Anything else go with regular Gauss.

[Y E O N N E]

MadRover, on 02 October 2017 - 06:09 PM, said:

Honestly the only thing LGauss is good for is for those ballistic component starved mechs. Thats it. Anything else go with regular Gauss.

It's not even good for those. AC/10 is better. And the AC/10 is, itself, middling.

[panzer1b]

MadRover, on 02 October 2017 - 06:09 PM, said:

Honestly the only thing LGauss is good for is for those ballistic component starved mechs. Thats it. Anything else go with regular Gauss.

If you are so tonnage starved that you cant run a regular GR, dont even bother running ANY gauss rifle. If you want a reasonably tonnage ballistic, try teh AC2s, 2 of those have almost as much DPS as 3 LGRs, and weigh as much as 1 LGR. That and as ive mentioned before, 8 PPFLD is irrelevant in todays meta. If its not 15 or more, dont even bother trying to make it PPFLD and just stick to damage over time like the cannons all are. Ofc the ac2s also get better range so they work well with erlls if you have a free ballistic or 2, and have ~15t leftover (3t ammo ofc).

Im not entirely sure about the HGR, despite being fun and satisfying to shoot, since it forces you to use a STD engine, which is a big no-no after the LFE showed up. At the very least, 25 PPFLD out of a SINGLE 18t weapon is very good, 5 less then dual gauss would give with the exact same rate of fire, so it has some merit. That said, ive had the most luck on IS gauss with regular or 2 gauss mechs. Mechs i do run GR on are the mad3r (once i get some more MC ill hopefully have myself a BH2 for actual gauss vomit), and teh warhammer with its signature dual gauss build (which is actually one of very few builds that can stand up to clan and i do better with then many clan mechs). The mad3r is obviously reliant on lasers more then the hammer, but the hammer just has that unique ability to decimate components super reliably with its 20 laser followed by near unavoidable 30 PPFLD to a single component (the convergence on the guns is fantastic, they actually work fine even with no convergence on crosshairs).

Anyways, with regards to gauss, i am still of the opinion that its one of, if not THE strongest weapon in the game at this point in time, specifically when combined with any other weapons that are heavily heat limited. It is the ONLY weapon that is heat free and actually can be used at long range, its PPFLD, and it has so much velocity that its borderline impossible to miss a target at 500m or so unless ur on too many beers. I know this part isnt meta, but ive recently started brawling with gauss rifles, and believe it or not, they are a hell of alot better then LBXs since you get 100% of your damage exactly where you want it, and it leaves 100% of the heatsink and heat dissipation for the SRMs. Discovered how strong a scorch is with 4 SRM6, 2 GR, and 2 ERML (the last of which is only there for the rare games where i do actually run out of ammo, and the build is cool enough i can use them non-stop outside of a brawl). I even replaced the LBX20 on my orion with a GR, and while its a little more vulnurable (i tend to sacrifice the right side since the SRMs are my main weapon), it really work crazy well alongside teh SRMs and 2 random backup lasers/flamers depending on my mood.

All in all, maybee im biased, maybee i dont have a clue what im talking about, but it really seems that gauss rifles (regular ones in particular) are one of the best and most versatile weapons available to use 9mostly because they take 0 heat, so they can be added to almost any loadout and boost both DPS and alfa strike potential, and in teh case of gauss brawling, dump 100% of the damage exactly where you shoot and not spread all over 2-3 components like the LBXs).

Edited by panzer1b, 02 October 2017 - 09:10 PM.

[dwwolf]

Currently running a rifleman with 2x light gauss and a TC 6. Love the range quirks and extra gauss velocity.
Somehow it seems to work ok.

People tend to take notice of 30 point chunks flying off.
16 points tends to be ignored for some reason...even if they land more often.
I notice I am a fair bit more precise with the dual L gauss plus TC VI compared to 2x gauss.

[El Bandito]

dwwolf, on 04 October 2017 - 04:42 AM, said:

Currently running a rifleman with 2x light gauss and a TC 6. Love the range quirks and extra gauss velocity.
Somehow it seems to work ok.

People tend to take notice of 30 point chunks flying off.
16 points tends to be ignored for some reason...even if they land more often.
I notice I am a fair bit more precise with the dual L gauss plus TC VI compared to 2x gauss.

TCs do not increase Gauss velocity. Only AC and PPC velocity.

Edited by El Bandito, 04 October 2017 - 04:49 AM.

[Yosharian]

Ran it for a few hours the other day.

Trying to hit with a projectile weapon at 800m that has charge-up time is very frustrating. I tried to pair it with the ERPPC which has the same projectile speed and it was extremely hard to spit off volleys on a timely basis and still hit things reliably (I mean, unless they're standing still, obviously, which mostly people don't do in my tier), which is what you need to do with the LGauss to make it effective because its principal advantage is low-heat DPS.

If they removed the charge-up time for LGauss then it might be more usable. At the moment it's just not worth it.

[BigBenn]

REMOVE THE CHARGE UP, FOO!!!!

[Quicksilver Aberration]

El Bandito, on 04 October 2017 - 04:48 AM, said:

TCs do not increase Gauss velocity. Only AC and PPC velocity.

TCs do increase Gauss velocity.....it's a projectile. Otherwise TCs would've been used on Clan assaults before the ghost heat nerf just to sync up the velocity of PPCs with Gauss (TC7 would sync them up perfectly if that were true).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 04 October 2017 - 11:00 AM.

[MischiefSC]

I'm struggling to find good math for the light Gauss that's not problematic. I'm tempted to say faster cooldown and more flexible with GH both with other Gauss and PPCs.

[Jay Leon Hart]

MischiefSC, on 04 October 2017 - 11:22 AM, said:

I'm tempted to say faster cooldown and more flexible with GH both with other Gauss and PPCs.

I don't think LGauss (or LPPCs for that mater) should be linked to Gauss, HGauss, PPCs, ERPPCs, SNPPCs or HPPCs WRT ghost heat.

[GETREKT4K]

FWIW I run the light gauss on smaller, fast mechs and it's great for constant pressure. You can't see where it's coming from, it hits faster than any other projectile, charge up time is tinyyyyyy. I love it. It's practically hitscan. CD is also very short there's like no break between shots. If it gets buffed at all you will see them everywhere.

[dwwolf]

No charge up. More optimal less falloff range. Possibly add its minimum range in the fades to 0 dmg way.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

GETREKT4K, on 04 October 2017 - 11:37 AM, said:

it hits faster than any other projectile....It's practically hitscan.

It's literally the same velocity as standard Gauss.

GETREKT4K, on 04 October 2017 - 11:37 AM, said:

FWIW I run the light gauss on smaller, fast mechs and it's great for constant pressure.

You what is better for constant pressure from smaller faster mechs? ERLL.

[Mole]

Why did you need to make such a long-winded post to explain why a weapon that weighs 12 god damned tons for a measly 8 damage, requires a few more tons for ammo on top of an already bad deal, and then suffers from a chargeup mechanic that brings a terrible deal down to just straight up abysmal is a bad weapon? If I have a ballistic hardpoint big enough to fit a 5 slot LGR I could just take a damn UAC/2 for 5 tons less and shoot you four times in the span of about two seconds for roughly the same result.

Edited by Mole, 04 October 2017 - 01:58 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Mole, on 04 October 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

Why did you need to make such a long-winded post to explain why a weapon that weighs 12 god damned tons for a measly 8 damage, requires a few more tons for ammo on top of an already bad deal, and then suffers from a chargeup mechanic that brings a terrible deal down to just straight up abysmal is a bad weapon? If I have a ballistic hardpoint big enough to fit a 5 slot LGR I could just take a damn UAC/2 for 5 tons less and shoot you four times in the span of about two seconds for roughly the same result.

To undercut arguments to the contrary and to illustrate the solution.

If I just say "it's a bad gun" and don't explain why and how,then we get bogged down by ignoramus replies going "nuuu huuu, ur just usin it rong and r bad." As you can see, we successfully avoided that. Mostly.

[MischiefSC]

I would rather reduce cooldown or increase velocity or change ghost heat than increase to 10 - at which point it's an upgraded AC10 or big 1 heat PPC.

I'm lazy, what's the math for that look like to be worthwhile without a damage increase?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

MischiefSC, on 04 October 2017 - 02:47 PM, said:

increase velocity or change ghost heat than increase to 10

Neither of these fix the core issue, which is damage output. Either increase the damage or reduce the cooldown, those are really the only 2 solid options.

[MischiefSC]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 04 October 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

Neither of these fix the core issue, which is damage output. Either increase the damage or reduce the cooldown, those are really the only 2 solid options.

Okay, so reduce cooldown. That would also help carve out some space foe it different than the regular gauss. Light Gauss with a cooldown comparable to medium lasers would be pretty cool. Especially with a really short chargeup.

[FupDup]

MischiefSC, on 04 October 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

Okay, so reduce cooldown. That would also help carve out some space foe it different than the regular gauss. Light Gauss with a cooldown comparable to medium lasers would be pretty cool. Especially with a really short chargeup.

...It already is, depending on whether we count beam duration and charge-up as a factor of cooldown.

ML: 3.0 + 0.9 = 3.9 firing cycle
LGR: 3.25 + 0.5 = 3.75 firing cycle

Edited by FupDup, 04 October 2017 - 03:16 PM.