171 replies to this topic

[Shadowomega1]

MischiefSC, on 04 October 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

Okay, so reduce cooldown. That would also help carve out some space foe it different than the regular gauss. Light Gauss with a cooldown comparable to medium lasers would be pretty cool. Especially with a really short chargeup.

The devs will have to pull the ballistics cool down from all the IS mechs if their going to do that. My Jaeger which I built just for Light Gauss has a 30% cool down on it and it is pretty short cool down thanks to that.

[Mole]

Even if we bump up Light Gauss damage to 10, at that point you might as well just have an ERPPC. Sure you get heat, but same damage, less than half the tonnage, but no charge mechanic.

Edited by Mole, 04 October 2017 - 04:29 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Shadowomega1, on 04 October 2017 - 04:18 PM, said:

The devs will have to pull the ballistics cool down from all the IS mechs if their going to do that. My Jaeger which I built just for Light Gauss has a 30% cool down on it and it is pretty short cool down thanks to that.

Your Jagermech has a 27% cool-down, and I have the same 'Mech skilled the same way and it's still mediocre, actually slightly worse than a RFL-3C with its lesser 22% because the RFL can engage for full damage from considerably further away (read: well outside ERLL optimum range).

At any rate, you are talking about sub-average 'Mech potentially becoming good. I don't see a problem there. I'm struggling to think of any good 'Mechs that become god 'Mechs with this change, and you are still talking about a 12 ton, 5 slot weapon that does 7 points damage less than a same-weight gun whose only premium is one more slot.

[Shadowomega1]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 October 2017 - 04:35 PM, said:

Your Jagermech has a 27% cool-down, and I have the same 'Mech skilled the same way and it's still mediocre, actually slightly worse than a RFL-3C with its lesser 22% because the RFL can engage for full damage from considerably further away (read: well outside ERLL optimum range).

At any rate, you are talking about sub-average 'Mech potentially becoming good. I don't see a problem there. I'm struggling to think of any good 'Mechs that become god 'Mechs with this change, and you are still talking about a 12 ton, 5 slot weapon that does 7 points damage less than a same-weight gun whose only premium is one more slot.

After Seal Team I will take a look at the actual numbers on it.

[MischiefSC]

The problem is that it's only 3 tons lighter and slightly smaller. It's not like you're going to be able to take it on significantly smaller mechs than a regular gauss. So 3 tons less for 1/2 the damage? Just not sure where to take it that makes it relevant.

[Y E O N N E]

Shadowomega1, on 04 October 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

After Seal Team I will take a look at the actual numbers on it.

The JM6-S has the highest cool-down quirk out of all the Jagermechs at 15%. The maximum you can get from the IS Skill Tree is 12%. Ergo, 27%. The resulting cool-down is 2.37 seconds which, combined with the 0.5 second charge time, nets you 2.8 DPS per gun.

If we boost the damage to 10, the DPS goes to 3.5 on that Jagermech. That is quite high, but that quirk applies to all ballistics so the others would still out-class it in DPS. It would be a quality 'Mech for long range, but with the additional velocity quirks it has the AC/5, UAC/5, AC/10, and UAC/10 would remain superior options for mid-range work.

MischiefSC, on 04 October 2017 - 04:55 PM, said:

The problem is that it's only 3 tons lighter and slightly smaller. It's not like you're going to be able to take it on significantly smaller mechs than a regular gauss. So 3 tons less for 1/2 the damage? Just not sure where to take it that makes it relevant.

Same role as the quad-gauss KDK, using rate of fire to offset the lack of up-front damage.

[MischiefSC]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 October 2017 - 05:02 PM, said:

The JM6-S has the highest cool-down quirk out of all the Jagermechs at 15%. The maximum you can get from the IS Skill Tree is 12%. Ergo, 27%. The resulting cool-down is 2.37 seconds which, combined with the 0.5 second charge time, nets you 2.8 DPS per gun.

If we boost the damage to 10, the DPS goes to 3.5 on that Jagermech. That is quite high, but that quirk applies to all ballistics so the others would still out-class it in DPS. It would be a quality 'Mech for long range, but with the additional velocity quirks it has the AC/5, UAC/5, AC/10, and UAC/10 would remain superior options for mid-range work.



Same role as the quad-gauss KDK, using rate of fire to offset the lack of up-front damage.

Yeah, just want to find a fix without an up front damage boost but that has it's own issues. I'm game with anything that gives it a purpose.

[FupDup]

Maybe compromise of 9 damage and a slightly cooldown bump?

[Y E O N N E]

MischiefSC, on 04 October 2017 - 05:06 PM, said:

Yeah, just want to find a fix without an up front damage boost but that has it's own issues. I'm game with anything that gives it a purpose.

I mean, that's why I said either 2.5 cool-down or 10 damage with current cool-down. it gives you the same result either way.

Or 9 damage with slight increase to cool-down. Honestly, it's an academic difference. Some people would get annoyed by the constant pinging of weak Gauss rifles, but I don't honestly care.

[El Bandito]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 04 October 2017 - 10:59 AM, said:

TCs do increase Gauss velocity.....it's a projectile. Otherwise TCs would've been used on Clan assaults before the ghost heat nerf just to sync up the velocity of PPCs with Gauss (TC7 would sync them up perfectly if that were true).

Go ahead and read the description of TC. It does not increase the velocity of LBX and Gauss, despite both being projectiles. It mentions only ACs and PPCs.

Edited by El Bandito, 04 October 2017 - 05:31 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 October 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

I mean, that's why I said either 2.5 cool-down or 10 damage with current cool-down. it gives you the same result either way.

Or 9 damage with slight increase to cool-down. Honestly, it's an academic difference. Some people would get annoyed by the constant pinging of weak Gauss rifles, but I don't honestly care.

I would love the 2.5 second cooldown. Stack that bad boy with 3 Erlls and a RAC2 on a Zeus and just bok bonk bonk bonk troll the **** out of people. 43% heat efficiency if you go with the 300lfe, though with all the weapons on one side you could probably just XL it. Not like you're going to sword and board brawl with it.

Yeah, that would be comedy hate gold. At 2.5 cooldown and the mechs existing quirks you could just about fire the Gauss, then burn the lasers, start the RAC and the Gauss would be charging to fire shortly after the lasers finish the burn. 2 seconds of shooting burns laser, 2 Gauss and almost a full bar on the RAC.

Edited by MischiefSC, 04 October 2017 - 05:56 PM.

[Shadowomega1]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 October 2017 - 05:02 PM, said:

The JM6-S has the highest cool-down quirk out of all the Jagermechs at 15%. The maximum you can get from the IS Skill Tree is 12%. Ergo, 27%. The resulting cool-down is 2.37 seconds which, combined with the 0.5 second charge time, nets you 2.8 DPS per gun.

If we boost the damage to 10, the DPS goes to 3.5 on that Jagermech. That is quite high, but that quirk applies to all ballistics so the others would still out-class it in DPS. It would be a quality 'Mech for long range, but with the additional velocity quirks it has the AC/5, UAC/5, AC/10, and UAC/10 would remain superior options for mid-range work.



Same role as the quad-gauss KDK, using rate of fire to offset the lack of up-front damage.

Back from watching Seal Team; check it and yea you are right, but that 3% isn't much of a difference. However, Light Gauss will vastly out range an AC 10 even an IS UAC 10. AC 2 on the other hand will be in close in optimal range but maintaining that enough shots to the same area once the target knowns what is shooting at it, the target will twist to spread that damage out over as well as take evasive action which will lead to missed shots. It is likely the best option is to remove the light Gauss .5 second charge up and leave everything else alone.

[Y E O N N E]

Shadowomega1, on 04 October 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

Back from watching Seal Team; check it and yea you are right, but that 3% isn't much of a difference. However, Light Gauss will vastly out range an AC 10 even an IS UAC 10. AC 2 on the other hand will be in close in optimal range but maintaining that enough shots to the same area once the target knowns what is shooting at it, the target will twist to spread that damage out over as well as take evasive action which will lead to missed shots. It is likely the best option is to remove the light Gauss .5 second charge up and leave everything else alone.

I mean, it doesn't matter. On a Heavy 'Mech, there's nothing you can really fit with the Light Gauss that can also function at extreme range without dropping to just a single LGauss...at which point you would get better sustained DPS than using it with standard Gauss but worse burst. Seems like a fair trade to me.

On Assaults, the IS could actually use the boost when the sustained DPS from an isERLL boat is 4 and a cERLL boat is 5. So, again, seems like a fair trade to me.

UAC/2 can do enough damage to one spot already that they compete with ERLL and, against IS ERLL, they usually win. No danger of LGauss taking over at only 8 damage, LGauss rounds actually spread even worse than UAC/2 since you can't adjust the DPS stream so finely.

At mid-range, the range...doesn't matter. Because it's mid-range. At 500 meters, there are better things to be using than LGauss, even buffed.

Removing the 0.5 second charge-up has the same effect on DPS as reducing cool-down by 0.5 seconds, but makes the gun more broadly applicable...which makes it too easy to use and obsoletes other weapons. I'd rather just drop the cool-down.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

El Bandito, on 04 October 2017 - 05:30 PM, said:

Go ahead and read the description of TC. It does not increase the velocity of LBX and Gauss, despite both being projectiles. It mentions only ACs and PPCs.

Then the text needs to be corrected, just checked against the actual game files, Gauss IS included in velocity buffs.

[El Bandito]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 04 October 2017 - 07:04 PM, said:

Then the text needs to be corrected, just checked against the actual game files, Gauss IS included in velocity buffs.

Nice to know that. I'll contact Chris.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

MischiefSC, on 04 October 2017 - 05:55 PM, said:

I would love the 2.5 second cooldown. Stack that bad boy with 3 Erlls and a RAC2 on a Zeus and just bok bonk bonk bonk troll the **** out of people. 43% heat efficiency if you go with the 300lfe, though with all the weapons on one side you could probably just XL it. Not like you're going to sword and board brawl with it.

That doesn't sound appealing at all, sounds pretty horrible for the IS honestly since the Lt Gauss wouldn't even sync up with ERLL cooldowns. It just means you are more likely to combine it with itself rather than with any other weapon (so instead of 2 Lt Gauss 3 ERLL assaults you will more than likely see 4 Lt Gauss assaults).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 04 October 2017 - 07:07 PM.

[Shadowomega1]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 October 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

I mean, it doesn't matter. On a Heavy 'Mech, there's nothing you can really fit with the Light Gauss that can also function at extreme range without dropping to just a single LGauss...at which point you would get better sustained DPS than using it with standard Gauss but worse burst. Seems like a fair trade to me.

On Assaults, the IS could actually use the boost when the sustained DPS from an isERLL boat is 4 and a cERLL boat is 5. So, again, seems like a fair trade to me.

UAC/2 can do enough damage to one spot already that they compete with ERLL and, against IS ERLL, they usually win. No danger of LGauss taking over at only 8 damage, LGauss rounds actually spread even worse than UAC/2 since you can't adjust the DPS stream so finely.

At mid-range, the range...doesn't matter. Because it's mid-range. At 500 meters, there are better things to be using than LGauss, even buffed.

Removing the 0.5 second charge-up has the same effect on DPS as reducing cool-down by 0.5 seconds, but makes the gun more broadly applicable...which makes it too easy to use and obsoletes other weapons. I'd rather just drop the cool-down.

Not completely true as the cool down is the same so the quirked mechs will not gain even more in cool down speed. However now the Light Gauss can now become a snap fire sniper weapon.

Oh, and where I got the 30% from was I miss remember which ballistic quirk I was looking at. I have the JM6-A which has the large range and velocity buff.

As for another detail, does anyone have the crit chance on the projectile? It seems to crit quite often, so I'm wondering if they gave it some under the hood stat advantage.

[Y E O N N E]

Shadowomega1, on 04 October 2017 - 07:19 PM, said:

Not completely true as the cool down is the same so the quirked mechs will not gain even more in cool down speed. However now the Light Gauss can now become a snap fire sniper weapon.

Point on the cool-down, but that would only exacerbate the concern you had earlier about quirks and short cool-downs, as would removing the charge.

I don't like the idea of removing the charge. I enjoy the mechanic for its interaction, it allows the weapon to be potent without making it too easy to use (and thus too powerful), and at this point it's part of what makes the weapon a member of the Gauss family.

[Shadowomega1]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 October 2017 - 07:23 PM, said:

Point on the cool-down, but that would only exacerbate the concern you had earlier about quirks and short cool-downs, as would removing the charge.

I don't like the idea of removing the charge. I enjoy the mechanic for its interaction, it allows the weapon to be potent without making it too easy to use (and thus too powerful), and at this point it's part of what makes the weapon a member of the Gauss family.

The charge up doesn't bother me that much as I also play Planetside 2 as VS and there I used a weapon known as a Lancer for years and that has a 3 second charge time to bring it to its fullest range and damage. (was massively gutted in the last patch, and was the worst performing AV weapon in the game yet seen as the most powerful). Three seconds to bring the weapon up to 1500 point of damage (to vehicles 750 to infantry), 800 m/s, optimal range of 700m and a max range of 800m. In Mechwarrior terms it would rate between an IS AC 5 and IS AC 10 in terms of damage.

Yet in terms of what the Light Gauss was designed for, its ment for over 700 meters and those snapshots are what is needed at that range, even with a projectile hitting dang near 3 km/s, that second from target identification to weapon discharge could mean the target got from one cover to another.

[Y E O N N E]

Shadowomega1, on 04 October 2017 - 07:51 PM, said:

Yet in terms of what the Light Gauss was designed for, its ment for over 700 meters and those snapshots are what is needed at that range, even with a projectile hitting dang near 3 km/s, that second from target identification to weapon discharge could mean the target got from one cover to another.

Snapshots are what is needed if you are trying to poke a target down with burst. That's not what the Light Gauss does. What the Light Gauss is best geared for is a power-position type of maneuver, where you stay exposed and just hammer a target. For that, you don't need snap shots.

It's roughly analogous to ERLL power position, and you can see the concept at-play in MWOWC16 when EmP's Proton posted up on Tourmaline using a quad-Gauss KDK-3. He just sat there, exposed for the most part, and pounded any target that presented.

The Gauss family in general is more effective against larger targets than smaller, more agile ones. That's a fair trade, IMHO, for the power, range, velocity, and lack of heat.