171 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Light Gauss is easy to fix:

10 damage, 3.25+0.5 cooldown, 0.5 heat, 810m/1620m range, 20 shots/ton

That makes it excel at what it should: extreme range sniping, without turning it into an uncharacteristic DPS weapon, which is what it shouldnt be. we already have dps ballistics, theyre called autocannons. Gauss rifles are not dps weapons, they are the exact opposite of that.

With those stats, Light gauss would outperform standard gauss at extreme ranges (1000m+) due to its longer range, more compact size, better ammo efficiency, and faster rate of fire.

Thats exactly how it should work. It should be the definitive weapon for extreme range sniping.


If you want a DPS gauss thats what HAGs are for, assuming they ever add HAGs to the game.

Edited by Khobai, 21 September 2017 - 06:47 AM.

[Mechfan909]

I've been using these in the past in my rifleman 3C and it did give me some good games. the problem is getting to use it at the most suitable position i.e enemies ignoring you while you are sniping from a high position which is really hard to achieve. in an environment where sniping is not much useful, this weapon will not help. To me, this weapon needs a bit more cooldown speed like 2.75 sec cooldown time to be at least reliable when the brawling starts.

[Khobai]

its not supposed to be a reliable brawling weapon

if you want a brawling ballistic use UAC10s

you people seem completely confused about light gauss's role. its not a dps weapon. its an extreme range sniping weapon. its basically the ballistic equivalent of an ERPPC. you dont brawl with ERPPCs either.

Edited by Khobai, 21 September 2017 - 06:49 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 21 September 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

Light Gauss is easy to fix:

10 damage, 3.25+0.5 cooldown, 0.5 heat, 810m/1620m range, 20 shots/ton

That makes it excel at what it should: extreme range sniping, without turning it into an uncharacteristic DPS weapon, which is what it shouldnt be. we already have dps ballistics, theyre called autocannons. Gauss rifles are not dps weapons, they are the exact opposite of that.

With those stats, Light gauss would outperform standard gauss at extreme ranges (1000m+) due to its longer range, more compact size, better ammo efficiency, and faster rate of fire.

Thats exactly how it should work. It should be the definitive weapon for extreme range sniping.


If you want a DPS gauss thats what HAGs are for, assuming they ever add HAGs to the game.

That is literally all I ask. Don't even need the heat buff, though, that's pointless.

[Shadowomega1]

Well if they are going to buff the LGR again then they would have to go through every IS mech and pull all the Ballistic quirks so don't take the weapon on its face value.

[Bud Crue]

In answer to the original question:

Yeah, I built three mechs with it and played at least a dozen matches in each. K2 and JaggerS with 4ERML and 2 LG and then a Warhammer with 6ERML and 2LG. I had intended to try a 2ERLL and 2LG build but never got around to it.

Of the three I did try, the Jagger S was the best and I attribute that to the up high and mobile arm hard points for the LG and of course the 15% cooldown. It isn't great and you really do need to stay back or at least hang close to a more attractive target of a friend, but it was consistently a decent damage build and we won more than lost while I played it so there is that bias to consider. Thus far, of the three this is the only one wherein I left the weapons in place.

K2 was ok but I just keep thinking "god this is a bad build" while playing it and dumping rounds into terrain once the brawl started, so there is that bias to consider.

Finally the Warhammer. Was the worst playing experience I've had in a long time. As soon as the test run was over I walked away from the thing.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

ITT: People agreeing the Light Gauss is bad, but not willing to actually agree on doing what is needed to actually make it useful.

[Verilligo]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 21 September 2017 - 07:24 AM, said:

ITT: People agreeing the Light Gauss is bad, but not willing to actually agree on doing what is needed to actually make it useful.

Pretty much, it's just a juggling act of stats to find what puts the weapon at the right DPS while also making it convenient enough to use. My personal vote is 9 damage, 3.25s cooldown, no charge time. Also bump up the velocity of all types of AC10s by a smidge.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Verilligo, on 21 September 2017 - 07:47 AM, said:

My personal vote is 9 damage, 3.25s cooldown, no charge time. Also bump up the velocity of all types of AC10s by a smidge.

No charge time removes the flavor of Gauss, I'm fine with a potentially shorter charge time (and bumping up the cooldown a bit to compensate) but no charge time is honestly off the table as far as I'm concerned.

As far as AC10 velocity, all non-2 ACs need their velocity buffed, not just the 10. The 10 simply needs a faster cooldown (needs to be 2s at least) to ensure it has enough DPS per ton to justify it (AC5 and AC20 both do more DPS per ton than the AC10).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 21 September 2017 - 08:23 AM.

[Mechteric]

What if they were to remove the charge up/hold mechanic just for light gauss? That might provide some incentive.

[Gas Guzzler]

CapperDeluxe, on 21 September 2017 - 09:18 AM, said:

What if they were to remove the charge up/hold mechanic just for light gauss? That might provide some incentive.

Not really. Like Quicksilver said, one that takes away the Gauss flavor. Two, does Gauss charge really stop you from using it? Gauss charge is not a big deal at all....

[Verilligo]

Gas Guzzler, on 21 September 2017 - 09:20 AM, said:

Not really. Like Quicksilver said, one that takes away the Gauss flavor. Two, does Gauss charge really stop you from using it? Gauss charge is not a big deal at all....

Gauss "flavor" is part of what makes the Light Gauss so unwieldy to use. It's totally acceptable on regular and heavy gauss because the cooldown is longer and it inhibits you from as easily directing 15 (or often 30) pinpoint damage to where you want from long range. You still can, but it requires some extra skill, and I'm okay with that even though I think this "flavor" is dumb from the get-go.

Light Gauss, however, has a shorter cooldown. This means to use it effectively, you're going to have to expose that much more often. With lasers it's okay to not constantly be firing because you're using that extra time to vent heat. Gauss doesn't come with any heat. So here we have a weapon used for long range sniping where you absolutely cannot just pop off a shot because you have to charge it first, requiring repeated exposure, that's both heavy and bulky and also happens to explode in commonly-damaged locations. Why should I use this weapon?

I submit to you, gentlemen, that gauss charge is VERY MUCH a barrier to the use of a weapon that is, by its very nature, trying to push itself more towards being a DPS type weapon. I simply cannot see a reason to ever take it when there are so many better options or combination of options on the table. At the very least without a charge time there's a give-and-take between it and its regular-sized brother.

[MustrumRidcully]

If only I cared for the "Gauss Flavor". THe Gauss Flavor is a heavy ballistic with extremely low heat to me. That's all. The charge mechanic is one of the worst ideas PGI had.

But I suppose that would be tilting at windmills.

So just raise the damage to 10. 3.25 cooldown plus a 0.5 second charge (or maybe a 3.5. second cooldown and a 0.25 second charge).

[Gas Guzzler]

Gauss charge is not a big deal to overcome. Seriously... you guys are making a mountain out of an ant-hill.

There is nothing unwieldy about the Light Gauss. Its issues are its stats and how heavy it is.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 21 September 2017 - 09:46 AM.

[Verilligo]

Gas Guzzler, on 21 September 2017 - 09:46 AM, said:

Gauss charge is not a big deal to overcome. Seriously... you guys are making a mountain out of an ant-hill.

There is nothing unwieldy about the Light Gauss. Its issues are its stats and how heavy it is.

Then give me a reason why this weapon should retain its charge. Give me a good reason. Why do you actually LIKE gauss charge? We've already established that it's a trait unique to gauss weapons. But why do you LIKE that trait? All I see is a barrier to entry on a weapon that's already heavy and bulky and of lower threat than my other options.

[Y E O N N E]

Verilligo, on 21 September 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

Gauss "flavor" is part of what makes the Light Gauss so unwieldy to use. It's totally acceptable on regular and heavy gauss because the cooldown is longer and it inhibits you from as easily directing 15 (or often 30) pinpoint damage to where you want from long range. You still can, but it requires some extra skill, and I'm okay with that even though I think this "flavor" is dumb from the get-go.

Light Gauss, however, has a shorter cooldown. This means to use it effectively, you're going to have to expose that much more often. With lasers it's okay to not constantly be firing because you're using that extra time to vent heat. Gauss doesn't come with any heat. So here we have a weapon used for long range sniping where you absolutely cannot just pop off a shot because you have to charge it first, requiring repeated exposure, that's both heavy and bulky and also happens to explode in commonly-damaged locations. Why should I use this weapon?

I submit to you, gentlemen, that gauss charge is VERY MUCH a barrier to the use of a weapon that is, by its very nature, trying to push itself more towards being a DPS type weapon. I simply cannot see a reason to ever take it when there are so many better options or combination of options on the table. At the very least without a charge time there's a give-and-take between it and its regular-sized brother.

The charge only gets in the way of being DPS-oriented if your cooldown is zero and the DPS is still too low. We are not at all near that point. Else, the charge just combines with cooldown in your calculations and it is no big deal.

Where the charge is interfering is actually with the ability to snap a shot off and twist. That is not a DPS behavior, though, that's a poke behavior. Unless you know exactly where the target is, the charge forces you to expose a little longer to find it, charge, and make the shot. This is part of what makes lasers combine so well with Gauss and also what makes them more effective against it than against PPCs. It is what makes even the AC/10 superior in its bracket despite its low velocity. All of this is what allows us to justify making the LGauss actually good at long range.

[Y E O N N E]

Verilligo, on 21 September 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

Then give me a reason why this weapon should retain its charge. Give me a good reason. Why do you actually LIKE gauss charge? We've already established that it's a trait unique to gauss weapons. But why do you LIKE that trait? All I see is a barrier to entry on a weapon that's already heavy and bulky and of lower threat than my other options.

I like the increased, manual interaction. When I nail my timing, it feels great. Like driving a manual car and nailing the down-shifts.

We also already have point-and-click versions, called the ER PPC for poke and, for DPS and poke, the UAC/2.

[Gas Guzzler]

Verilligo, on 21 September 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

Then give me a reason why this weapon should retain its charge. Give me a good reason. Why do you actually LIKE gauss charge? We've already established that it's a trait unique to gauss weapons. But why do you LIKE that trait? All I see is a barrier to entry on a weapon that's already heavy and bulky and of lower threat than my other options.

I don't see a reason why this should be the only Gauss weapon (1 out of 4) that does NOT have a charge. Its a characteristic of Gauss weapons and I see no reason to make the Light Gauss a special case. "Barrier to entry"? It took me like 3 matches to master sync firing Gauss and PPCs when I was a n00b. If the stats warrant use, it will see use. Right now, they really don't.

Also this

Yeonne Greene, on 21 September 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

I like the increased, manual interaction. When I nail my timing, it feels great. Like driving a manual car and nailing the down-shifts.

We also already have point-and-click versions, called the ER PPC for poke and, for DPS and poke, the UAC/2.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 21 September 2017 - 10:05 AM.

[Verilligo]

Yeonne Greene, on 21 September 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

The charge only gets in the way of being DPS-oriented if your cooldown is zero and the DPS is still too low. We are not at all near that point. Else, the charge just combines with cooldown in your calculations and it is no big deal.

Where the charge is interfering is actually with the ability to snap a shot off and twist. That is not a DPS behavior, though, that's a poke behavior. Unless you know exactly where the target is, the charge forces you to expose a little longer to find it, charge, and make the shot. This is part of what makes lasers combine so well with Gauss and also what makes them more effective against it than against PPCs. It is what makes even the AC/10 superior in its bracket despite its low velocity. All of this is what allows us to justify making the LGauss actually good at long range.

And I have to personally argue that you cannot just combine gauss charge in with cooldown to do your calculations. I mean, I completely understand that you play at a much higher level than I do, so for you this may really be of no issue. But is it necessary? Is there no place for a lighter weight sniping option that allows for a different style of play? Because when I was using twin LGRs, even with a 20% cooldown before-skill-tree bonus, simply delivering 20 damage instead of 16 per pull was not going to make the experience that much more pleasant.

[Edit]: I'd also debate equating the roles of the ERPPC and LGR. I understand what you're getting at, but using up 6-7 more tons, 2 more slots, and having limited ammo just to not gain 12.5 heat seems like a very weird trade. Sure, not gaining the extra heat means you can mix it in with more heat-demanding weapons, but would those builds really be that competitive with other established ones? I just can't see it from the level that I play at.

Edited by Verilligo, 21 September 2017 - 10:22 AM.

[Kanil]

Verilligo, on 21 September 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

Then give me a reason why this weapon should retain its charge. Give me a good reason. Why do you actually LIKE gauss charge? We've already established that it's a trait unique to gauss weapons. But why do you LIKE that trait? All I see is a barrier to entry on a weapon that's already heavy and bulky and of lower threat than my other options.

Gauss charge isn't why the weapon is bad, which is why retaining it is acceptable. We don't want PGI to just remove charge and say "there we fixed it" because even without charge the weapon is still not worth using. As you said yourself, the weapon is heavy, bulky, and of lower threat -- that is what we want buffed, not charge.