171 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

And that was with a 5% quirk to cool-down.

[The6thMessenger]

Yeonne Greene, on 21 September 2017 - 08:16 PM, said:

You see, this is the stupid part.

I already more or less agreed to your compromise in the very first reply to you on Page 1, but you then went on a crusade against any and all criticism of your idea when it got called out as being anything but founded in objective performance and/or the realities of seasoned combat in MWO.

You are trying to justify feels using citations about in-game performance that are either un-true or require very stupid players to actually be true. It doesn't compute.

Yeonne Greene, on 21 September 2017 - 06:28 AM, said:

The6thMessenger, on 21 September 2017 - 05:33 AM, said:

It could always have a cooldown of 2.63s + 0.75s and have a shot every 3.38 seconds. The LGR best undertake the DPS role to be relevant, cause the Gauss Rifle is already doing the per-shot role, and 3 tons isn't really that a lot to compensate for.

As above, my point to you is that the Gauss is already superior both in DPS and up-front damage. My reason for pointing out that your proposal was more potent than mine was because you keep flirting with the idea that the LGauss is at-risk for being OP and I wanted to drive home to you how misguided that was. Because standard Gauss is already better in all the ways and LGauss combines so poorly with other weapons, it isn't enough for the two to simply match in DPS.

I agreed with you as an addendum, but then you're the one getting uppity with how "misguided" my approach was.

I only explained the rationale of my stats, and how it could work around your protests. I acknowledged what QK and You have to say, it's just that does not necessarily mean i'd accept it without thought, i'm only processing what you said, and considering other factors.

If you feel that's a "crusade" just because you can't take people disagreeing with you, or people just don't take what you said instantly and it bothers you, that's on you, believe what you want. There's nothing could do about that, there's no point in discussing with people like you if all you want is people to take your word with little thought, that's called preaching.

[MustrumRidcully]

Yeonne Greene, on 21 September 2017 - 06:33 PM, said:

Okay, this doesn't make sense.

You've essentially just said that weapons that can't shoot at extreme range have a tough time retaliating. But..that's a "no sh*t Sherlock" statement. You hound somebody incessantly with a trio of ERLL and it's the same thing.

I mean, I see your angle. But the cold, hard fact is this:

I take my three ERLL with 20 DHS. I have full duration nodes and 9% heat gen, 15% heat containment, and 10% cool-run, right?


Heat Cap: 1.15 * 65 = 74.75 (yay fixed Heat Containment, Quicksilver can correct me if this one is wrong though)
Heat Dissipation: 1.1 * 3.50 = 3.85

Heat generated per shot is 0.91 * 8 * 3 = 21.84.
Net Heat Generation is (21.84 / (0.93 + 3.40)) - 3.84 = 1.19
Time to Heat Cap = 74.75 / 1.19 = 62 seconds

All at a DPS of 6.24. (Yes, I will have probably picked up cool-down incidentally but nothing compels me to fire it as fast as it cools down and that only hammers home my point here, because this calculation is me already holding back).

So I can fire for a solid minute at a DPS greater than I can achieve using LGauss. How realistic do you think it is that I'm actually going to sit there with my trigger depressed with any weapon? With no pauses to acquire a new target, reposition, etc. that could be used to cool off? And what about cool-shots? In what way is getting continuously drilled by ERLL while you are trying to fight other targets or are otherwise unable to respond any less annoying than getting hit by Gauss rounds, especially Gauss rounds that are likely going to hit multiple locations because you change your orientation mid-flight and will only ever do 16 damage while the ERLL can do up do up to 27 and, in all likelihood, will actually do about 80% of that without you having a say?

What you fear that the LGauss will become is already the reality with every extreme-range weapon in the game. That's the only mechanism by which they do work: continuous [and annoying] shots from outside your own effective range. This is what I was trying to show in the OP, and hoped people would realize that the heat limit for a trio of ERLL is so high that it might as well not exist.

And, at any rate, I fail to see why getting hit by 18 damage every 3.5 seconds is any less annoying than getting hit by 20 every 3.75 or 16 every 3.00 or, stepping up to full Gauss, 30 every 5.75. It's all just as annoying if you don't have a weapon to trade against it...but that's kind of the point of having weapons for different brackets.

For the record, 62 seconds of 6.24 DPS equals 386.88 damage, let's say 380 for a nice rounded number. That would be twice as much damage as you need to chew through an Atlas CT, and 2.87 times as much as you'd need for a Warhammer. So even if you nail only 1/2 to 1/3 of your shots, most worthy opponents are probably dead or crippled.

Not that you ever actually get 62 seconds of uninterrupted shooting, which only makes the ERLL combo better.

[Verilligo]

JediPanther, on 21 September 2017 - 06:56 PM, said:

Nope. With such a narrow time to fire at a moving target even if it is going 55-64kph at long range you still won't get much of a shot off. skill nodes make it 1 second maybe 1.5 but still very narrow. Lasers and other u/ac are much more reliable to hit that target. I'll take an ac2 over light gauss for long range sniping or go er ll and do even better.

Actually I'm pretty sure, without nodes, you can hold a LGR charge for somewhere around three seconds. I didn't time it exactly, but it had a VERY long hold time when I was toying around, unless they fiddled with it this patch.

Edited by Verilligo, 22 September 2017 - 05:15 AM.

[Nightbird]

Yeonne Greene, on 21 September 2017 - 08:33 PM, said:

And that was with a 5% quirk to cool-down.

Yep, I hope you get it buffed but usage with 2 likely will not be the balancing point, but with 4.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

NlGHTBlRD, on 21 September 2017 - 08:30 PM, said:

A 100 tonner might do it better, like king crab with XL and more ammo

It won't because it has worse mounts and horrible hitboxes, you are better off with an Annihilator.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 22 September 2017 - 07:32 AM.

[Nightbird]

Ani is too slow, the king crab hitboxes are perfect for long range, can burn up all torso arm armor evenly, XL safe. Like all 100 toners, bad at short range. Hoping the night star is as good.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

NlGHTBlRD, on 22 September 2017 - 07:40 AM, said:

Ani is too slow

And? You aren't going to be blazing any trails in the King Crab either. You can run a 300 and go as fast as a Mauler or Cyclops with 4 Lt Gauss except you have a bunch more armor.

NlGHTBlRD, on 22 September 2017 - 07:40 AM, said:

king crab hitboxes are perfect for long range, can burn up all torso arm armor evenly, XL safe.

The King Crab is XL safe because its CT is ginormous, and considering how low its mounts are, the mech is horrible for really anything. Cyclops|Maulers >>>>> King Crab

[dwwolf]

Its a niche weapon, and so is the AC/2.
So give it a damn niche : real long range direct fire support.
Move half of the falloff range to optimal range; and keep total range the same.

[Y E O N N E]

dwwolf, on 22 September 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

Its a niche weapon, and so is the AC/2.
So give it a damn niche : real long range direct fire support.
Move half of the falloff range to optimal range; and keep total range the same.

Won't do anything. The optimum range is already longer than most engagements can occur due to cover and it still has trouble getting the damage out.

You could even say that the problem is that it's too niche right now.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 22 September 2017 - 11:38 AM.

[dwwolf]

Armor piercing functionality ?

[Y E O N N E]

dwwolf, on 22 September 2017 - 11:48 AM, said:

Armor piercing functionality ?

That is a real can of worms. Do we really want weapons that have even a chance at bypassing armor to deal damage directly to structure? Do we want weapons getting crit underneath full armor?

IMHO, if this game were way more complex and sim-like, I'd say it's an idea worth exploring. But, alas, this is not that game. So...no. All it needs is better damage-out capabilities. Higher rate of fire or punchier round, doesn't matter.

[dwwolf]

Higher RoF with charge and hold....uhuh.
How is that going to work ?

[Y E O N N E]

dwwolf, on 22 September 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

Higher RoF with charge and hold....uhuh.
How is that going to work ?

The same way higher RoF without charge and hold works?

It's 2.5 seconds with 0.5 seconds to charge, same thing functionally as 3.00 second cool-down if you are in a position to sit there and slam out the rounds. If you hold your charge longer than 0.5 seconds, that's your own fault. And even if you did, having a shorter cool-down between shots is still going to let you get back to charging and firing sooner.

This is not rocket science.

[TheArisen]

I'm amazed anyone would seriously argue the Lgauss is fine or not in need of substantial buffs

[Y E O N N E]

TheArisen, on 22 September 2017 - 05:41 PM, said:

I'm amazed anyone would seriously argue the Lgauss is fine or not in need of substantial buffs

To be fair, that's mostly just a couple people on page 1.

The majority of this thread is violent agreement among parties who want it buffed, but disagree over how.

[MischiefSC]

What if it just had no chargeup?

[Y E O N N E]

MischiefSC, on 22 September 2017 - 09:29 PM, said:

What if it just had no chargeup?

Not willing to entertain the idea. Charge is part of the Gauss identity and I enjoy the mechanic. The problem isn't the charge-up, anyway, it's the fact that it takes too long to pound out damage from a distance compared to anything else.

[MischiefSC]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 September 2017 - 09:38 PM, said:

Not willing to entertain the idea. Charge is part of the Gauss identity and I enjoy the mechanic. The problem isn't the charge-up, anyway, it's the fact that it takes too long to pound out damage from a distance compared to anything else.

Yes but you remove changeup from the cycle. Light Gauss is for snap-fire but otherwise less efficient.

If you just make it more viable vs regular gauss.... why not just take regular Gauss?

I agree completely that it's not worth taking now. However I wouldn't object to light Gauss and various PPCs having their own flavor. Make them distinct or else... why have them? It's like ermls or erll/regular ll for IS. Sure, they have a different niche but one just largely replaces the other in most (or in LL case) or nearly all cases and is just the same thing but more range and heat.

If you're going to change it up, why not make it distinct?

[Y E O N N E]

MischiefSC, on 22 September 2017 - 09:44 PM, said:

Yes but you remove changeup from the cycle. Light Gauss is for snap-fire but otherwise less efficient.

If you just make it more viable vs regular gauss.... why not just take regular Gauss?

I agree completely that it's not worth taking now. However I wouldn't object to light Gauss and various PPCs having their own flavor. Make them distinct or else... why have them? It's like ermls or erll/regular ll for IS. Sure, they have a different niche but one just largely replaces the other in most (or in LL case) or nearly all cases and is just the same thing but more range and heat.

If you're going to change it up, why not make it distinct?

It is distinct. If the cooldown is shortened, it's more of a full-expose face-time weapon at extreme long, similar to the ERLL and unique among ballistics. UAC/2s are burst, standard Gauss is burst.

Think of it like this: Quad-LGauss on a Sleipnir would be comparable to quad-Gauss on a KDK-3, except the Sleipnir fires in smaller, but more frequent packets. So, there's your niche, and one you can't do with standard isGauss. It fits in with how Clan equipment seems to split the difference while IS are either this or that. If you want to go burst with IS, you take standard Gauss and ERLL. I've got one Rifleman set up to do that (it's a beast) and one set up to do the LGauss (it's a cub, but there's potential). Right now, the ERLL DRG-1C is still superior at the full-expose extreme-range thing even after the nerfs.

And really, having the charge around lets us give it that niche without it being OP. Charge is good. It keeps the skill ceiling on the Gauss rifles high, which keeps it viable.