29 replies to this topic

[Shifty McSwift]

In the recent patch they mentioned "fixing" an issue with the screen shake effect, which I haven't really noticed, but appreciate nonetheless. But the bigger issue or the more invasive one for play is how blinding some weapons are or have become in how their animations play.

I am pretty sure RAC are the worst offenders here, at times being hit by an rac in the CT/ST (even lower in some cases) creates a blinding effect for the cockpit window. I know the screen shake is supposed to be an effect of the gun and others, but being blinded for a split second by every pellet the fires from one in a stream, even when twist tanking one, is quite over the top.

Have others noticed this? Is it potentially an everygun problem that only really becomes noticeable with a constant rapid stream like RAC? Or is the animation too explosive and blinding, moreso than others?

[VitriolicViolet]

i dont think its an issue, but i also liked it when flamers would actually blind you.

[El Bandito]

RAC is the biggest offender, yes. There are other offenders, such as chain-fired LRM5s, but LRM5 spread nerf took care of that. Hardly see LRM5s nowadays. Smaller caliber weapons should have less blinding effects--something PGI have not learned after many years.

[nehebkau]

Waah! A marginal weapon makes the game hard to play please nerf it.

[vettie]

Not asking for a nerf (if I can speak for Swifty / Bandito). They merely stated opinions about the blinding effect and how they feel that RACs are prolly the worst offenders followed by Banditos agreement and statement that even smaller caliber weapons produce this same or similar effect.

For what it matters, I agree (with both gents). May not be an issue for some but for others with not so young or perfect eyes (I prefer to call mine aging eyes - cause I'm old) it is very much an issue and in my opinion, an unnecessary one or one that could be toned down a good bit.

Edited by vettie, 21 September 2017 - 06:27 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

nehebkau, on 21 September 2017 - 06:14 PM, said:

Waah! A marginal weapon makes the game hard to play please nerf it.

Oh hey look everyone, it's your favourite strawman argument back again.

Is it even an intended effect of the gun ? Or something lost or missed in design (if so then what are you talking about nerf)? Who knows, I am opening discussion about what might be an issue, not even calling for "nerfs".

I guess will count you as one for blinding effects? I don't even know.

[Trissila]

I usually solve this problem by not tanking RAC-2 fire.

I consider the blinding effect to be a balancing feature to mitigate the fact that RACs blow in every other department.

[Shifty McSwift]

Trissila, on 21 September 2017 - 06:52 PM, said:

I usually solve this problem by not tanking RAC-2 fire.

I gotta say that wasn't a great start to your post.

Trissila, on 21 September 2017 - 06:52 PM, said:

I consider the blinding effect to be a balancing feature to mitigate the fact that RACs blow in every other department.

But this saved it, part of the point of the post is bringing up the blinding effects in general and discussing their place etc, otherwise I would have just made a suggestion poll about it. It is fine to feel that way and that is a valid argument in its own right.

The RAC seems to be the worst offender, though a lot of weapons have that blinding by explosion effect, just no other guns with impact explosions function in that constant stream that results in a blinding effect.

Also the fact that it can blind when hitting near the cockpit is one thing, but I feel like they just miscalculated with the smoke or explosion animation, as it seems to have that effect from much further away than it should, or is more noticeable than other similar weapons.

My actual opinion on it would lean more towards less effects that remove player control in general, the idea of shutting down, or being so blinded that you cant see the terrain or sky in front of you for long periods are pretty bad for this, but can be made tolerable. And when it comes to the RAC specifically, I am not sure that idea of blinding a target as a strong point of the gun is a great thing for it, I'd rather it just be a bit more damage effective in that sense.

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 21 September 2017 - 07:10 PM.

[Mystere]

Shifty McSwift, on 21 September 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

I guess will count you as one for blinding effects?

Can I be part of that select group as well, please, pretty please?

Shifty McSwift, on 21 September 2017 - 07:09 PM, said:

And when it comes to the RAC specifically, I am not sure that idea of blinding a target as a strong point of the gun is a great thing for it, I'd rather it just be a bit more damage effective in that sense.

Why do people here have such a big problem with suppression and crowd control? Why does everything have to be about damage and only about damage?

Edited by Mystere, 21 September 2017 - 07:26 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Mystere, on 21 September 2017 - 07:24 PM, said:

Why do people here have such a big problem with suppression and crowd control? Why does everything have to be about damage and only about damage?

Crowd control can be done in many ways, and yes stunning (aka shutdowns in MWO) and blinding are CC effects, but god do they suck for the recipient.

Also when the result is mostly them being incapacitated and killed due to that effect you have to see the need for balance/counterbalance there too.

But I hear what you are saying, I would definitely be behind some more creative suppression/crowd control effects that are interesting and engaging for sure. If the RAC stays this way forever I am not exactly going to quit, the gun is pretty average it's true.

Oh, snap I just thought of a controversial counter argument lol; If it is supposed to be suppression/CC via blinding, why do clan get no counterpart for that role? Ohhhh shnap lol... I know, not a real argument, just pointing out other reasons why I just don't think it was an intended effect.

[Novakaine]

................................................seiously yur being shot ther's going smoke fragments and pieces of your mech flying everywhere.

[Shifty McSwift]

Novakaine, on 21 September 2017 - 07:58 PM, said:

................................................seiously yur being shot ther's going smoke fragments and pieces of your mech flying everywhere.

Realism just isn't a good enough argument for me when so many other things fail that reasoning test and still exist, it is a discussion of playability, intended mechanics, balancing etc.

[El Bandito]

Mystere, on 21 September 2017 - 07:24 PM, said:

Why do people here have such a big problem with suppression and crowd control? Why does everything have to be about damage and only about damage?

Suppression and crowd control is fine, as long as they are within limits. For example, macroed UAC2s shake just as much, but their blinding effects are not as much as that of RACs, which means even though you are half-blinded, you are still be able to shoot back at your tormentor. Which makes the UAC2s challenging to face, but not un-fun to face. This is a game, and a game is suppose to have as little un-fun factor as possible.

Same reason why Flamers' blind effect was removed.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 September 2017 - 09:00 PM.

[GuardDogg]

I recall the older days, when getting hit with a guass, it would turn my torso (slightly). It benefited the enemy engaging me, that I had to re-align my torso to aim. It was like getting hit with a bat, trying to regain your thought, even visual. Now they do not have that, players complained. It didn't bother me, all though using a guass rifle takes skill, timing. One of my mechs have the heavy guass rifle, and ever time I use it, my mech gets lifted. The feeling of the power it has.

Edited by GuardDogg, 21 September 2017 - 09:12 PM.

[Thorqemada]

Imho optical filters would prevent the Pilot from suffering blinding effects that much....so it would only be reasonable to reduce them a tad...

[Jun Watarase]

Theres a really simple solution to the blinding effect. Make it so that the explosions or whatever is only visible from outside the mech. So someone firing at the mech will see the explosions, so will everyone else looking at the mech, but the pilot inside the mech being hit doesn't see it.

Lore explanation : The cockpit filters out explosions so that pilots can return fire effectively.

Gameplay/balance reason : We all know the mech designs were made using rule of cool, because otherwise no sane person would put the cockpit in the center of the mech as is done on mechs like the catapault and cataphract. Mechs with center located cockpits are incredibly easy to blind and balancing it would be extremely difficult, so its best to remove it as a balance issue entirely by not making explosions blind, just like how repairs were removed.

Unfortunately getting PGI to consider this is extremely difficult unless you are in Russ's inner circle on twitter.

[nehebkau]

Shifty McSwift, on 21 September 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

Oh hey look everyone, it's your favourite strawman argument back again.

Is it even an intended effect of the gun ? Or something lost or missed in design (if so then what are you talking about nerf)? Who knows, I am opening discussion about what might be an issue, not even calling for "nerfs".

I guess will count you as one for blinding effects? I don't even know.

The ONLY thing that makes the weapon even marginally usable is the blinding effect. Do you understand the concept that prolonged face-time is a bad thing? The RACs are all face-time and without the blinding effect they are a big "SHOOT ME IN THE CT PLEASE!" weapon. If you remove the blinding effect, these weapons are entirely useless. And only marginal because most non underhive players can simply shoot through the flashes...

So yes, removing the blinding effect from a weapon, where aiming to hit near the cockpit with them to cause the blinding effect actually takes a lot of skill, will render the weapon useless and is, BY ITS VERY ESSENCE, a nerf.

Edited by nehebkau, 22 September 2017 - 05:49 AM.

[Bud Crue]

nehebkau, on 22 September 2017 - 05:46 AM, said:

The ONLY thing that makes the weapon even marginally usable is the blinding effect. Do you understand the concept that prolonged face-time is a bad thing? The RACs are all face-time and without the blinding effect they are a big "SHOOT ME IN THE CT PLEASE!" weapon. If you remove the blinding effect, these weapons are entirely useless. And only marginal because most non underhive players can simply shoot through the flashes...

So yes, removing the blinding effect from a weapon, where aiming to hit near the cockpit with them to cause the blinding effect actually takes a lot of skill, that will render the weapon useless is, BY ITS VERY ESSENCE, a nerf.

Its already useless from a practical perspective.

I posted a thread previously wherein my premise was that the RAC 2 was essentially just a giant flammer, and that the only value the thing had was the fun you got out of blinding opponents. If of sufficiently low skill they actually turn their back to you to avoid being blinded. Its great...until you try it against someone of better skill. Alas, since most people have already figured this out, the weapon is now for all practical purposes a giant machine gun/flammer that is not worth half its tonnage let alone what it is or its cost in heat.

[Exilyth]

Quite interesting that an issue like this only comes up when there's a ballistic event and people actually use RACs.

[mogs01gt]

nehebkau, on 21 September 2017 - 06:14 PM, said:

Waah! A marginal weapon makes the game hard to play please nerf it.

Looks like you are missing the point.

If the projectiles arent hittng the head, they it shouldnt blind you.