193 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

what we need is role warfare.

they need to divide the skill tree into 3-6 smaller role-based skill trees and assign each mech in the game a role like scout, harasser, striker, support, command, juggernaut, etc....

that would help differentiate otherwise similar mechs

Quote

it's the skill tree web that sucks, a player should be able to choose more range over cooldown or vice versa if they choose instead of taking skills that block the skill you desire.

I would rather see different skill trees based on roles. each mech would be assigned a role which would determine the skill tree it gets. although there would be some generic skills that all roles have access to.

for example: the support role would get range nodes while the striker role would get cooldown nodes.

because right now all the mechs are way too similar and theres not enough to differentiate them

Edited by Khobai, 23 September 2017 - 09:55 AM.

[LordLeto]

As much as the skill tree could and should be improved, its still much better then the module system. Even when grinding from new.

[Shinskii]

I'll just say I came back around the time the new tech was introduced to give this game a try again, and I was ELATED that I no longer had to grab 3 variants of a mech to skill it up, and even moreso that I didn't have to dump millions of CBills into modules (yes I know they're spent on unlocking nodes instead.) I find myself with more options now with the newer system compared to the old which was off putting for me a year back, now playing with the 'mechs I WANT to play with rather than NEED to. That's just me though.

[Kaeb Odellas]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 23 September 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

Look at what you're saying here, carefully.

You're essentially, asking for a change to the web because "I don't want to be forced to take things I don't want."

Which translates into: "I want to min-max my mech easier without having to compromise."

This, is what's lead to inherent balancing issues to begin with.

The solution to min-maxing isn't forcing people to get nodes they don't want or need. The solution is to make the unwanted nodes desirable on their own, so people have to actually choose.

Take Speed Retention as an example. If instead of its current benefits it did reduced speed loss on landings and reduced the speed loss from losing a leg or side torso for LFEs and Clan XLs, most pilots would actually find it useful, especially those with jump jets. You wouldn't need to use it a gatekeeper node on the Operations tree to keep people from maxing out cooling skills.

[Khobai]

speed retention should also reduce the speed penalty for losing a side torso with XL or LFE

speed retention-
reduces speed penalties from leg loss or XL/LFE side torso loss by 10% per node upto a max speed of 70-80kph or half your mech's top speed, whichever is lower.

the previous 50kph max limit is too slow for light mechs. A light that loses a leg should not be slowed down to 50kph thats always been stupid. It needs to be 70-80kph.

Edited by Khobai, 23 September 2017 - 11:01 AM.

[Burke IV]

The skill tree is just terrible. Its like they tacked a grind on the side for totally no reason whatsoever than to make the game difficult for new players. I said so when the tree first arrived, this signals the end. I hope PGI can see sense before its too late.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Burke IV, on 23 September 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

The skill tree is just terrible. Its like they tacked a grind on the side for totally no reason whatsoever than to make the game difficult for new players. I said so when the tree first arrived, this signals the end. I hope PGI can see sense before its too late.

Was the grind any different from the old system? Back then you had to grind out the basic skills for 3 variants before you could access the higher tier skills on any of them. That means having to spend C-Bills and time on mechs you don't necessarily want and having to either sell them off for a loss or buy more mechbays.

[Burke IV]

yeah cause you left the game and reconfigured your mech and were back in play in 10 mins or less. Now the task of remaking your build is big enough to be a hassle

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

KodiakGW, on 23 September 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

Min-max with what? 1% Range nodes? .75% Cooldown nodes (which even if you unlock all you get 5% less than the old module system if you include Fast Fire)? Seriously, you guys have to stop with that BS. Stop the maze, stop the gating. You worried about min-max, then make the percentages lower and add more nodes. Done.

Stop making Bishop unlock Torso Yaw on his Urbanmechs to unlock other mobility.

Stop making lights unlock Advanced Gyros and more than one Speed Retention to get Cool Run and Heat Containment that is 5% less effective than under the old system when you unlock all.

Stop making Locust pilots take Hill Climb when they can climb the walls of Canyon without losing hardly any speed.

And I can go on for hours giving you other examples.

We lost over 3000 players August year over year. Considering that we got all this new tech recently, we should have seen many players come back, not a loss.

Fix the Skill Maze and I know 6 paying customers who will return.

That's right, six PAYING CUSTOMERS. PGI can look up what they spent from December 2016 until the Skill Maze drove them away. Easily near $1000 if you include the $210 worth of gift codes I gave them. There is a thread in the patch notes archives with all the detail where I had it out with another pro Skill Tree forum warrior. His last post, just a personal attack. Mine? Facts and figures.

But, you know, you are right, "Stay the course, thousand points of light." Because losing about 1/5 of a small player base does so much good for the game. As long as it MAKES YOU HAPPY.

Edit: I just want to make clear before I start to get quoted, I DO SEE POTENTIAL IN THE SKILL TREE, and do not want to go back to modules. But, it should have been a lot better than what we got BEFORE it was implemented. By the number of posts basically saying "Yeah, it needs fixing. But, I'm dealing with it." I think many of you would agree. You need to make sure they know it needs to be fixed.

Ever think, that maybe, just Maybe, MWO has run it's course? The game's been out since 2012 man, it's had 5 years of continual play... you REALLY think the game's not going to bleed players? And at times en-masse?

You can only play this game for so long, before you gotta take a break man. I've been here since closed beta, and outside of a 6 month break once, and another 3 month break not that long ago, I play almost daily for at least a few hours, and even I'm feeling some burnout.

So yeah, it's going to bleed players, and you cannot try to compare this game, which is for a niche audiance to begin with, against a game like WoW, that went for mass market appeal, and achieved that [also by a much, MUCH better dev.]

Face it man, MWO is going to have a small player base, because the only one's still around, are the one's that care at all... and even we few, will eventually get burnt out.

And I know I'll be bouncing for a while once Mechwarrior 5 comes out.

[vandalhooch]

adamts01, on 23 September 2017 - 09:29 AM, said:

I can't think of a game that penalizes you for grabbing a shotgun instead of a rifle. Once you own those nodes you should own them. Go ahead and crank up the cost a little, but this game is all about customization. Don't make me respec when I want to bring UACs instead of ACs.

In other words, you couldn't actually come up with an example of a game with free respecs. You opted instead to respond with a red herring.

[Dollar Bill]

Shinskii, on 23 September 2017 - 10:03 AM, said:

I'll just say I came back around the time the new tech was introduced to give this game a try again, and I was ELATED that I no longer had to grab 3 variants of a mech to skill it up, and even moreso that I didn't have to dump millions of CBills into modules (yes I know they're spent on unlocking nodes instead.) I find myself with more options now with the newer system compared to the old which was off putting for me a year back, now playing with the 'mechs I WANT to play with rather than NEED to. That's just me though.

Once again, and again, and again, and for those who have trouble reading facts and just see what they want to see. THE SKILL MAZE AS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE END OF THE 'RULE OF THREE'! There, did you see it that time?

PGI could have ended the 3 mech requirement at any time in the past. But PGI did it with the release of the Nerf Tree, because PGI thinks we are stupid enough to think the Skill Web was to thank for it. I mean, does PGI really think we are so dumb as to fall for a trick like tha...oh...wait.

The Skill Tree could have been something most everyone would have liked, if PGI had just lessened to Saloma (or whatever his name was) who tried to help by making a far more logical, and cleaner, linear Skill Tree. Instead of the gated, granular, arbitrary web of frustration PGI dumped out.

And, people keep going on and on about how much they can 'customize' their mech...it's just an illusion, sheeple! It just looks good on paper. So please stop fooling yourselves, or using it to make your dis-honest arguments in favor of the Skill Maze. A little 1% bump here, and .75% tweak there mean nothing where it really counts...on the battlefield.

[Dollar Bill]

Kaeb Odellas, on 23 September 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

Was the grind any different from the old system? Back then you had to grind out the basic skills for 3 variants before you could access the higher tier skills on any of them. That means having to spend C-Bills and time on mechs you don't necessarily want and having to either sell them off for a loss or buy more mechbays.

<sigh> No longer needing to have 3 variants has nothing to do with the Skill Tree.

[MischiefSC]

Yeah. Was playing on an alt. It's so much better buying and skilling 1 mech. The money cost hurts but it's less than buying 3 mechs, 2 of which that suck, to grind up.

I like the skill tree. I've respecced stuff on a few mech. It's cheaper than a new set of modules and far more flexible.

Skill Tree is a huge improvement to the game.

[Dollar Bill]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 23 September 2017 - 01:23 PM, said:

Ever think, that maybe, just Maybe, MWO has run it's course? The game's been out since 2012 man, it's had 5 years of continual play... you REALLY think the game's not going to bleed players? And at times en-masse? You can only play this game for so long, before you gotta take a break man. I've been here since closed beta, and outside of a 6 month break once, and another 3 month break not that long ago, I play almost daily for at least a few hours, and even I'm feeling some burnout. So yeah, it's going to bleed players, and you cannot try to compare this game, which is for a niche audiance to begin with, against a game like WoW, that went for mass market appeal, and achieved that [also by a much, MUCH better dev.] Face it man, MWO is going to have a small player base, because the only one's still around, are the one's that care at all... and even we few, will eventually get burnt out. And I know I'll be bouncing for a while once Mechwarrior 5 comes out.

No, my friends and I loved playing MWO and played nearly every day. We never felt brunt out. It was specifically the Skill Maze that killed MWO for us.

I played TT back in the day, and played MWO for 5 years. My friends and I had a real passion to play this game, in spite of all the dumb moves made by PGI. Up until the Nerf Tree. You get to waist all your time clicking away at nodes on mechs you already had set up the way you wanted. Which would have been kind of ok if you could get your mech back to the way it was. Instead, what you get is all your mechs getting an unnecessary blanket nerf hidden behind all these so called 'choices.'

The last day I played MWO was the day before Skill Maze was crapped out on the live server. I tried playing with the Skill Maze on the public test server, and knew it was the end for a lot of players once it went live. I tried to like it and just keep playing, but every time I looked at that unnecessarily jumbled mess of gated nodes, all I could do was ask "why PGI, why?" It would snuff out any little urge I had left to play, and I would just shutdown the game.

This Skill Tree is the only reason why lots of players quit this game. All you White Knights and PGI Apologist know it's true. So please, just stop already.

Edited by Dollar Bill, 23 September 2017 - 08:30 PM.

[Dollar Bill]

MischiefSC, on 23 September 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

Yeah. Was playing on an alt. It's so much better buying and skilling 1 mech. The money cost hurts but it's less than buying 3 mechs, 2 of which that suck, to grind up. I like the skill tree. I've respecced stuff on a few mech. It's cheaper than a new set of modules and far more flexible. Skill Tree is a huge improvement to the game.

Should I say it again about Skill Maze having NOTHING to do with no longer needing 3 mechs, and PGI being able to do that anytime over the past 5 years? Oops, just said it again.

[MischiefSC]

Dollar Bill, on 23 September 2017 - 02:34 PM, said:

Should I say it again about Skill Maze having NOTHING to do with no longer needing 3 mechs, and PGI being able to do that anytime over the past 5 years? Oops, just said it again.

I still prefer the skill tree, by a million miles. If there was no cost at all be that rule of 3 or the cost to skill up you've Judy created a huge cbill boost to the economy. The current one is still a good deal and gives a not terrible cbill sink - which the game has to have or cbills become worthless far faster than they do already.

[C4NC3R]

Davegt27, on 23 September 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

ok this game is as fun as standing in a fire ant mound

can we at least get our modules back

I don't care about the rule of three and all that jazz
lets just make Mech customization fun again

#NEVERGETBACK...NO...NAI...NADA...

Edited by C4NC3R, 23 September 2017 - 02:41 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Dollar Bill, on 23 September 2017 - 02:27 PM, said:

No, my friends and I loved playing MWO and played nearly every day. We never felt brunt out. It was specifically the Skill Maze that killed MWO for us.

I played TT back in the day, and played MWO for 5 years. My friends and I had a real passion to play this game, in spite of all the dumb moves made by PGI. Up until the Nerf Tree. You get to waist all your time clicking away at nodes on mechs you had set up the way you wanted them. Which would have been kind of ok if you could get your mech back to the way it was. Instead, what you get is all your mechs getting an unnecessary blanket nerf hidden behind all these so called 'choices.'

The last day I played MWO was the day before Skill Maze was crapped out on the live server. I tried playing with the Skill Maze on the public test server, and knew it was the end for a lot of players once it went live. I tried to like it and just keep playing, but every time I looked at that unnecessarily jumbled mess of gated nodes, all I could do was ask "why PGI, why?" It would snuff out any little urge I had left to play, and I would just shutdown the game.

This Skill Tree is the only reason why lots of players quit this game. All you White Knights and PGI Apologist know it's true. So please, just stop already.

I had so many skills i needed to work through, but once I learned the skill tree [maybe took me like, 5 mechs] I can now blow through skilling a mech in under a minute... it doesn't take that long if you know your role, and what you want to do, and what's worth culling and ignoring on the tree to achieve your result.

I dunno man, feels to me like you're just, making up something to be outraged about.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Davegt27, on 23 September 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

ok this game is as fun as standing in a fire ant mound

can we at least get our modules back

I don't care about the rule of three and all that jazz
lets just make Mech customization fun again

I think the system works fine as is. Don't see a need to revert to the old model at all. I can tweak my mechs with as much granularity as I want and accomplish largely similar effects, while gaining some others.

Don't get me wrong. It's not perfect, and it's time consuming, and it's (AGAIN, PGI) not NPE intuitive and a bit of a grind for the new players who don't have fat stacks of SP to use.

But so was the old model really.

And I'm glad I don't have to swap modules anymore (and I had 50 complete "sets" and still had to periodically go find an under utilized mech to rob of modules for something).

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

sounds like youre just arguing for arguments sake....

the old tree was 1 size fits all so it was pretty much useless.

i will add the final tree is better than the pts build that forced you to take arm nodes even when you had no arm weapons but they didnt retest the tree and just threw it in the game.