127 replies to this topic

[adamts01]

JC Daxion, on 26 September 2017 - 12:43 AM, said:

I personally think they should just CAP the crit at some point.

If they're not going to add recoil or a cone of fire as a penalty for firing everything you have at once, then this is actually a decent band aid for machineguns that keeps them viable on mechs that can't boat them.

Curccu, on 26 September 2017 - 01:51 AM, said:

Dual gauss will remove the arm, dual PPC will leave few internals to that arm and most like crit few MGs with that same shot.

How will dual guass remove a 42 point arm?

[Curccu]

adamts01, on 26 September 2017 - 01:53 AM, said:

How will dual guass remove a 42 point arm?

I didn't read ever post in this thread but I'm assuming we are talking about MLX-G or ACH-E? MLX has 5 structure quirk? ACH has none? don't have access to game right now so just shuffling through patch notes.

[adamts01]

Curccu, on 26 September 2017 - 02:19 AM, said:

I didn't read ever post in this thread but I'm assuming we are talking about MLX-G or ACH-E? MLX has 5 structure quirk? ACH has none? don't have access to game right now so just shuffling through patch notes.

The MLX G has 4, but the survival tree is pretty standard for that thing, especially since heat is of no concern.

[Curccu]

adamts01, on 26 September 2017 - 02:30 AM, said:

The MLX G has 4, but the survival tree is pretty standard for that thing, especially since heat is of no concern.

Ok so 19,68 armor + 16,56 structure = 36,24 for MLX-G arms (with max survival tree), doesn't take that arm off instantly with dual gauss but leaves it with 6 structures, which isn't fun anyways.

Edited by Curccu, 26 September 2017 - 02:47 AM.

[adamts01]

Curccu, on 26 September 2017 - 02:46 AM, said:

Ok so 19,68 armor + 16,56 structure = 36,24 for MLX-G arms (with max survival tree), doesn't take that arm off instantly with dual gauss but leaves it with 6 structures, which isn't fun anyways.

+4 I should say. Either way, I'm looking at my MLX-G in game right now and it has 42 total hit points on each arm. Too many people think they're made of paper, but they can take an absurd amount of abuse for how small they are. Or maybe I just find them tanky because I played them like crazy when they had no quirks.

[Curccu]

adamts01, on 26 September 2017 - 02:49 AM, said:

+4 I should say. Either way, I'm looking at my MLX-G in game right now and it has 42 total hit points on each arm. Too many people think they're made of paper, but they can take an absurd amount of abuse for how small they are. Or maybe I just find them tanky because I played them like crazy when they had no quirks.

Hmm weird, maybe kitlabs skill tree calc values aren't correct then. anyway from my experience with MLX-G I will almost always lose the arms before dying.

[Sjorpha]

Machine guns seem fine as they are to me, nothing wrong having a good weapon system specialized on crit damage. They have already been recently nerfed too.

[adamts01]

Curccu, on 26 September 2017 - 02:54 AM, said:

Hmm weird, maybe kitlabs skill tree calc values aren't correct then. anyway from my experience with MLX-G I will almost always lose the arms before dying.

Absolutely, they're the size of your torso, which is also heavily quirked for survival. I honestly think the survivability is about right on the thing, I'm even fine with their damage, I just think the crit ability needs to be rolled slightly back, then give the MGs a little damage to compensate.

Sjorpha, on 26 September 2017 - 03:03 AM, said:

Machine guns seem fine as they are to me, nothing wrong having a good weapon system specialized on crit damage. They have already been recently nerfed too.

I honestly didn't feel that nerf, 8xLMGs just pump out so many bullets. I think there should be a little more risk for that ability, so leave it as is for the Heavies, tone it down a little for MGs and remove all but a little from the LMGs, then give all of them a little damage to compensate, and more ammo for the HMGs. Or tie the crit chance to range, if they can code that.

[Ghogiel]

Curccu, on 26 September 2017 - 02:54 AM, said:

Hmm weird, maybe kitlabs skill tree calc values aren't correct then. anyway from my experience with MLX-G I will almost always lose the arms before dying.

Dunno either, mine has 20 armor and 18 structure with full armor and maxed armor skill tree

[adamts01]

Ghogiel, on 26 September 2017 - 03:09 AM, said:

Dunno either, mine has 20 armor and 18 structure with full armor and maxed armor skill tree

I've got full structure as well, that's the difference. I don't use consumables because I'm space poor, and the thing runs so cool that I dabbled in operations, left firepower alone, almost maxed mobility, dabbled in jump jets and put quite a bit in sensors, to help find those open components and for seismic. So I'm getting +25% armor and +40% structure, which makes the thing just tank. It's silly really, at only 20 tons.

[Iron Heel]

What is needed is a situational awareness boost.
OP, It's not the MGs that get you, its that you dont notice the 4 armor stripping SL shots in the back and only start dancing when you hear the bullets ripping through your internals.

Take the FS9-E thats 4 SL and 4 MGs, thats it.
On most heavy and assault mechs it takes 1 to 4 SL hits to open up the rear armor.
And again, on most mechs, thats anywhere from 13 to 52 damage before I open up with my MGs and they even begin to react.

Most crit seekers dont engage early and use the teams fire to cover their own.
If a crit seeker is taking your weapons or you down late game, well, thats their job.
If youre getting armor stripped and taken down single handed by a MG boat light, well thats on you as a poor pilot.

[Ghogiel]

adamts01, on 26 September 2017 - 03:20 AM, said:

I've got full structure as well, that's the difference. I don't use consumables because I'm space poor, and the thing runs so cool that I dabbled in operations, left firepower alone, almost maxed mobility, dabbled in jump jets and put quite a bit in sensors, to help find those open components and for seismic. So I'm getting +25% armor and +40% structure, which makes the thing just tank. It's silly really, at only 20 tons.

Since I have maxed armor and skill tree. I have full structure. You cannot change structure, it's simply 50% of armor +/- quirks/skill tree modification.

Edited by Ghogiel, 26 September 2017 - 03:30 AM.

[Iron Heel]

Oh, and let me address face humping.
When they nerf damage and spread of LMGs then pilots migrate to MGs and HMGs and when your effective range is 80m to 120m, well face hugging happens.

Dont hate the player...

[Sjorpha]

adamts01, on 26 September 2017 - 03:09 AM, said:

I honestly didn't feel that nerf, 8xLMGs just pump out so many bullets. I think there should be a little more risk for that ability, so leave it as is for the Heavies, tone it down a little for MGs and remove all but a little from the LMGs, then give all of them a little damage to compensate, and more ammo for the HMGs. Or tie the crit chance to range, if they can code that.

They weren't overpowered before the nerf either, i haven't seen any evidence that mgs are too strong either now or before,.

They shouldn't be nerfed just because some people are frustrated about how they work.

[adamts01]

Ghogiel, on 26 September 2017 - 03:29 AM, said:

Since I have maxed armor and skill tree. I have full structure. You cannot change structure, it's simply 50% of armor +/- quirks/skill tree modification.

OK, I'm wrong, I have 20 armor and 18 structure. Sorry, I first saw the skill tree a week ago, and I was adding that little +4 next to the armor when it was already added.

Iron Heel, on 26 September 2017 - 03:27 AM, said:

What is needed is a situational awareness boost.
OP, It's not the MGs that get you, its that you dont notice the 4 armor stripping SL shots in the back and only start dancing when you hear the bullets ripping through your internals.

I don't know how many times I can say it, I've developed this opinion after using the 8LMG MLX. I've loved the MLX since I got it in an Invasion pack. I've always wanted it to get a little love, but this ridiculous structure wasn't what I had in mind. And I've also always wanted machine guns to have a place, I just think they need a little tuning.

Iron Heel, on 26 September 2017 - 03:36 AM, said:

Oh, and let me address face humping.
When they nerf damage and spread of LMGs then pilots migrate to MGs and HMGs and when your effective range is 80m to 120m, well face hugging happens.

Dont hate the player...

I've never hated face humping, it's what big mechs get for running comp builds with everything in the torsos. I just now had a Locust try to leg hump my Clan Marauder, but thanks to 2 LPLs in each arm I just backed up and wrecked him.

Sjorpha, on 26 September 2017 - 03:55 AM, said:

They shouldn't be nerfed just because some people are frustrated about how they work.

Obviously, not everyone can be happy, I'm just arguing my point. And I don't want them nerfed either, just crit lowered and damage raised. Let them still be crit seeking weapons, which are great since we now have these crazy structures, but not instant crit weapons.

[Ghogiel]

Sjorpha, on 26 September 2017 - 03:55 AM, said:

They weren't overpowered before the nerf either, i haven't seen any evidence that mgs are too strong either now or before,.

They shouldn't be nerfed just because some people are frustrated about how they work.

They were, pretty obviously, broke af.

[Ghogiel]

adamts01, on 26 September 2017 - 01:48 AM, said:

I honestly don't understand why you're acting like I'm calling for the nerf hammer. A little over-powered when it comes to stripping weapons? Absolutely, but I'd like to add to them as much or more than I'm asking to take away. Less crit, more damage, and more ammo for HMGs. My suggestions would actually be a buff in most situations, really nothing more than a slight re-purpose.

Dunno.. mayb because I read the OP and didn't see anything any where about anything besides CRITS WTFBBQ!

[adamts01]

Ghogiel, on 26 September 2017 - 04:32 AM, said:

Dunno.. mayb because I read the OP and didn't see anything any where about anything besides CRITS WTFBBQ!

Fair enough, I just didn't want to start with a wall of text. I do like crit seeking weapons having a place, but I just don't think it's good for gameplay to basically say goodbye to any gun as soon as your armor is gone.

[Ghogiel]

adamts01, on 26 September 2017 - 04:53 AM, said:

Fair enough, I just didn't want to start with a wall of text. I do like crit seeking weapons having a place, but I just don't think it's good for gameplay to basically say goodbye to any gun as soon as your armor is gone.

They don't do that near as much now since the nerf. I'm pretty happy with them right now since you truly don't insta crit everything always in open components like you used to.

[adamts01]

Ghogiel, on 26 September 2017 - 05:01 AM, said:

They don't do that near as much now since the nerf. I'm pretty happy with them right now since you truly don't insta crit everything always in open components like you used to.

I really haven't noticed any difference, not in my MLX with 8 of them anyway. Going from 8% to 6% probably made it take 10 more bullets, maybe 20, but that's nothing. Part of that could be to people starting to max out reinforced casing also, but even then 8LMGs is just so many bullets, it just doesn't matter.